Is hell forever?

[2knowhim]

The word of God is full of scripture that speaks to the condition of man, and what is needed in order to inherit the kindom of heaven. There are far too many scriptures that speak about God's will for our lives, as far as living a holy and righteous life in Christ. If people disregard the "Guidelines" That God has giving us to live successfully here in this world, and want to lead people astray because they choose "death" Go ahead. But keep it to yourself.
If some of you truly believe what you are writing then there is no need to impose it anyone else, because according to you, .....Were all going to heaven anyway. No Sweat.

Joh 3:27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.



Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

 

[shroom2]

Selenah, whatever you do stay away from shroom2 and 2knowhim, they will lead you into all unrighteouness and confusion. I don't claim to know everything, but those two (and several others) specialize in deception.
They deny the deity of Jesus Christ and maintain that all will be saved, two things that are clearly contrary to the Word of God.
Keep listening to those who give you solid Biblical eveidence. You will notice that those two seem to creep up on many posts just to spew their antichristian sentiments.
God bless, my friend.

Tom

Tombo, Tombo..... Why do you do this? I could with all conviction say similar things about you and a few others, warn people to stay away from you, because of the false things you promote as truth. Calvinism is not true; God does not determine who will be saved; only God, the Father, the creator, is God; Jesus Christ is the Son of God; and dead people are dead (for now). You do not have "solid biblical evidence" for the things you promote. You have your beliefs, then you go to God's word and find some verses that seem to back up what you have already decided you believe. That is not honest. You're not alone, many people do it. (I have no doubt that you think I do it).

You are right about universal salvation, however. Even though it is God's will for all to be saved, the decision to accept Christ is left to each individual. Man has free will. Unfortunately, not all will choose to believe.

God bless.

 

[2knowhim]

No one chooses death, they are born into death.
No one can choose Life, it is given to them by the Father.

He does not choose everyone in every age.
But............

1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

 

[shroom2]

No one chooses death, they are born into death.

True.

No one can choose Life, it is given to them by the Father.

Not true. Deut 30:19

He does not choose everyone in every age.

He wants everyone to choose Him NOW. This life is the ONLY life where people can choose to believe.

But............

1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Yes, that is His will. He has made salvation available through Christ to anyone who will believe.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Right!

1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Christ was indeed a ransom for all. It will be testified. At the final judgment, people who did not believe will realize that they should have.

 

[Strong1]

No one chooses death, they are born into death.
No one can choose Life, it is given to them by the Father.

He does not choose everyone in every age.
But............

1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Yes we are all born into sin, because of the fall of man. = death
What Christ did on the Cross for us.....gave us another chance at LIFE
Does everyone accept this truth? No. Does God force himself on anyone? No
OBVIOUSLY not everyone wants to accept the gift at the cross. hmmmmm... that would seem like a choice to me.
This is why in the fore stated scripture (Ezekiel) He asked, "For why will ye die..." This question clearly shows choice to the reader. (Like, " I (God), have made a way for you to live....so why will you choose death?)

 

[Tombo]

You see Selenah, some people think that God created Jesus and then sent Him to the cross to suffer for who knows who, since God would never be sure if anyone at all would ever "accept" His sacrifice. They think that God just crossed His fingers (no pun intended) and said gee, I sure hope someone accepts this created being that I call my Son as their savior, otherwise I made Him suffer for no reason. Some people think that man is in control of his destiny by a simple "I accept you" instead of trusting in God alone for mery and grace and eternal life. Some think there is still some goodness left in them to be able to do something pleasing to God in order for Him to forgive them. Some people think they must be better then others because they chose Christ and others didn't.
Surely you must see the absurdity to all of this!!!!
God bless you.

Tom

 

[AnandaHya]

Woah guys this thing totally blew up. Relax I'm not a poor helpless sheep that "wolves" can kill any minute. I want to see Bible verses here.

hehe I was thinking the same thing, which is why I just sat back and watched and prayed.

love you girl. hugs.

Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.


Personally I'm rather simple minded when God says tormented DAY and NIGHT FOREVER and EVER. I tend to believe Him.

anyway here's a song.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le-TG4sRRiQ[/video]

lol you ask excellent questions, it really gets people thinking and searching the scriptures, their hearts and understanding. I think its wonderful, just like you. love always.

 

[selenah]

hehe I was thinking the same thing, which is why I just sat back and watched and prayed.

love you girl. hugs.

Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.


Personally I'm rather simple minded when God says tormented DAY and NIGHT FOREVER and EVER. I tend to believe Him.

anyway here's a song.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le-TG4sRRiQ[/video]

lol you ask excellent questions, it really gets people thinking and searching the scriptures, their hearts and understanding. I think its wonderful, just like you. love always.

Lol I don't know if it's a good thing. I kind of started a big fight.

 

[cfultz3]

Lol I don't know if it's a good thing. I kind of started a big fight.

Remember this always:

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

And when Satan sees one weak he jumps. But thank God, there are those who do wrestle.

 

[selenah]

You see Selenah, some people think that God created Jesus and then sent Him to the cross to suffer for who knows who, since God would never be sure if anyone at all would ever "accept" His sacrifice. They think that God just crossed His fingers (no pun intended) and said gee, I sure hope someone accepts this created being that I call my Son as their savior, otherwise I made Him suffer for no reason. Some people think that man is in control of his destiny by a simple "I accept you" instead of trusting in God alone for mery and grace and eternal life. Some think there is still some goodness left in them to be able to do something pleasing to God in order for Him to forgive them. Some people think they must be better then others because they chose Christ and others didn't.
Surely you must see the absurdity to all of this!!!!
God bless you.

Tom

Kind of....

 

[shroom2]

You see Selenah, some people think that God created Jesus and then sent Him to the cross to suffer for who knows who,

God sent Christ for the sins of all men. Every single one.

since God would never be sure if anyone at all would ever "accept" His sacrifice. They think that God just crossed His fingers (no pun intended) and said gee, I sure hope someone accepts this created being that I call my Son as their savior, otherwise I made Him suffer for no reason.

God loves people, and Jesus Christ provides a way for every single one of them to be saved. Man has free will. God wants people to choose to love Him, but will not force anyone to.

Some people think that man is in control of his destiny by a simple "I accept you" instead of trusting in God alone for mercy and grace and eternal life.

Rom 10:9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Some think there is still some goodness left in them to be able to do something pleasing to God in order for Him to forgive them.

Every man is born dead in sin. Any man can choose life through Christ.

Some people think they must be better then others because they chose Christ and others didn't.

Some people think they must be better than others because God chose them to be saved over others. What if God didn't choose you, Tom? What if you only think He did? If God is the way you say He is, you have to admit that is a possibility.

God is not a respecter of persons. Salvation is available to any man who will choose to believe.

Surely you must see the absurdity to all of this!!!!

Yes, Calvinism makes God a respecter of persons, and a killer, because He decides to save some but not others on His whim. It is absurd.

 

[AnandaHya]

I don't know it's just so incredibly saddening to think about the FOREVER aspect. Forever is forever, not ten, a hundred, or a thousand years. How can anyone be happy when so many are going to be in darkness forever. I can never be happy knowing that.

can you be happy knowing the state the world is in today with so many people lost and deceived?

I can't say I have all the answers but I have found that God gives us peace and understanding not as the world gives but as only He can. Seek from HIM wisdom. He has a plan and a reason for every word in the Bible.

I have found my life is a series of progressive revelations of His truth.

People can talk and chatter and pretend to know God's will concerning Hell. they can speculate on who will go there and claim to KNOW, but in truth they are sinning because God tells us to NOT judge people before their time. Because God is working in this world to make it NEW to make US NEW creations.

Revelation 21
7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things,[d] and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving,[e] abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

I used to think as you did in high school actually. My family were not Christian. I was the first to accept Jesus and I thought "why would I want to go to Heaven if all my family is in Hell? I'd rather be with them."

I read the Bible, I spoke with God or more accurately yelled AT God. I was pretty angry and mad about a lot of things. Personal things I'll tell you privately later, but I've found that walking in the Spirit of God and learning His ways and His wisdom has given me joy and peace that I did not know when I tried to do it alone.

I don't know often times I don't feel like I have the words to say. I had dinner tonight with an old high school friend and she asked me how my husband changed me because we were remarking on how our friends changed becoming calmer, more spontaneous, etc upon marriage. I thought about it and I think I become more confident that my words might be worth speaking, less shy and afraid or concerned with if people liked me or not. I became more concerned if I pleased God and if I pleased my husband and cared for my family.

I subsistute teach ever so often and sometimes the kids can be really mean, but I remind myself that its not really me they are yelling at or angry with but something else triggered the reaction and sometimes if I'm patient I learn what it was and they seem to calm down.

I know I'm babbling, but everyone else can skip to the next post if they like. I know you don't mind me babbling to you on your thread. lol.

the point I want to make is we don't know how our actions and words affect other people. sometimes I feel like a fool but it gives others the opportunity to help me as you have done in the past by your kindness and compassion.

Sometimes we are sad, and heartbroken especially when we think about the troubles and the hurt people suffer daily. the abused children, those who die daily from lack of food, medicine, love. those who have never awaken spiritually but seek to fill the emptiness from lack of a relationship with God with other things like money, power, etc.

It makes me feel sad at times. So I read my Bible and take comfort in God's promises to heal those who are wounded and see that Justice is done to those who have been abused and oppressed.

We get hurt alot in life, but we have a choice: do we harden our hearts and stop caring for others?

Or do we allow our brokenness to be healed by God and our compassion for others to become actions and good works that aid them and show them God's love through our words, thoughts and deeds towards. for and with them.

If you don't want to see someone in Hell, pray for them and ask God to give them godly sorrow that leads to repentance and acceptance of His grace and mercy so that they might be healed and LIVE.

for God tells us to pray.

James 5:16
Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.

 

[AnandaHya]

Lol I don't know if it's a good thing. I kind of started a big fight.

don't worry selenah,

you didn't start the fight,

they just moved it onto your thread.

do you know of the TWO DIFFERENT types of wisdom?

James 3
13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. 15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. 16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. 17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. 18 Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

 

[Tombo]

Kind of....

I'm sorry for the confusion. I was directing this post towards shroom2 (although I didn't want to name him) and was trying to show how wrong and illogical his postion is.
The Bible teaches that God sent His Son (who is also God) to the cross to accomplish a "definite salvation" for His chosen ones. Shroom2 teaches that Jesus (whom he holds to be nothing more than a created being) went to the cross and only provided a "possible salvation" for everyone, since he holds that if one doesn't "accept" Jesus (a work) then they can't be saved. So according to shroom2, Jesus could well have gone to the cross without anyone at all trusting Him for salvation, since (according to shroom2) it's up to them to save themselves by accepting Jesus.

We can see right away that this flys in the face of God's declaration in Romans 9:18 " So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and He hardens whomever He wills."

The Bible teaches in Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

Anyway, I hope that is clearer to you.
God bless.


Tom

 

[Tombo]

don't worry selenah,

you didn't start the fight,

they just moved it onto your thread.

do you know of the TWO DIFFERENT types of wisdom?

James 3
13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. 15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. 16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. 17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. 18 Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

AnandaHya is right, I should not have taken shrooms bait and hijacked your thread like that. Him and 2knowhim always creep into every thread to spread lies, so I felt compelled to answer. He made a comment to another poster here to the effect "are you another Tombo". Until he said that I was willing to let your thread stay on course, but I felt compelled to correct his positions again since he drug my name into it.
Anyway, I will leave off correcting him here and let your original question about hell get back on track.
God bless.

Tom

 

[shroom2]

I'm sorry for the confusion. I was directing this post towards shroom2 (although I didn't want to name him) and was trying to show how wrong and illogical his postion is.
The Bible teaches that God sent His Son (who is also God) to the cross to accomplish a "definite salvation" for His chosen ones. Shroom2 teaches that Jesus (whom he holds to be nothing more than a created being)

Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God.

went to the cross and only provided a "possible salvation" for everyone, since he holds that if one doesn't "accept" Jesus (a work) then they can't be saved.

As I said before, Tombo, God loves all men, and wants them all to be saved (1 Tim 2:4, 2 Pet 3:9). He provided the means through Christ. People have a choice (Deut 30:19).

So according to shroom2, Jesus could well have gone to the cross without anyone at all trusting Him for salvation, since (according to shroom2) it's up to them to save themselves by accepting Jesus.

And yet God, because of His great love, sent His Son anyway. And don't forget all those OT believers, who looked forward to the coming of the promised Messiah.

We can see right away that this flys in the face of God's declaration in Romans 9:18 " So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and He hardens whomever He wills."

Tombo, you old cherry-picker, you. What do you do with the verses above? Toss them out? "Oh, but they don't really mean He wants all men saved..."

The Bible teaches in Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

It is the gift of God received when we believe.

Eph 1:13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Anyway, I hope that is clearer to you.

It should be more clear that Calvinism is not true.

God bless.

 

[shroom2]

AnandaHya is right, I should not have taken shrooms bait and hijacked your thread like that. Him and 2knowhim always creep into every thread to spread lies, so I felt compelled to answer. He made a comment to another poster here to the effect "are you another Tombo". Until he said that I was willing to let your thread stay on course, but I felt compelled to correct his positions again since he drug my name into it.
Anyway, I will leave off correcting him here and let your original question about hell get back on track.
God bless.

Tom

You are referring to my comment to Red33, who like you, verbally attacks and insults me. I should not have mentioned you in that post.

You are not "correcting my positions", although I'm sure you think you are. I am speaking the truth in these matters, to the best of my understanding from God's Word. You disagree with my understanding, and instead of stating your position, you slander me by calling me antichrist, and telling me I am not a Christian. You are the one following me around, Tombo. And then you make posts about me without even addressing me directly. What kind of person does that?

God bless.

 

[selenah]

can you be happy knowing the state the world is in today with so many people lost and deceived?

I can't say I have all the answers but I have found that God gives us peace and understanding not as the world gives but as only He can. Seek from HIM wisdom. He has a plan and a reason for every word in the Bible.

I have found my life is a series of progressive revelations of His truth.

People can talk and chatter and pretend to know God's will concerning Hell. they can speculate on who will go there and claim to KNOW, but in truth they are sinning because God tells us to NOT judge people before their time. Because God is working in this world to make it NEW to make US NEW creations.

Revelation 21
7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things,[d] and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving,[e] abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

I used to think as you did in high school actually. My family were not Christian. I was the first to accept Jesus and I thought "why would I want to go to Heaven if all my family is in Hell? I'd rather be with them."

I read the Bible, I spoke with God or more accurately yelled AT God. I was pretty angry and mad about a lot of things. Personal things I'll tell you privately later, but I've found that walking in the Spirit of God and learning His ways and His wisdom has given me joy and peace that I did not know when I tried to do it alone.

I don't know often times I don't feel like I have the words to say. I had dinner tonight with an old high school friend and she asked me how my husband changed me because we were remarking on how our friends changed becoming calmer, more spontaneous, etc upon marriage. I thought about it and I think I become more confident that my words might be worth speaking, less shy and afraid or concerned with if people liked me or not. I became more concerned if I pleased God and if I pleased my husband and cared for my family.

I subsistute teach ever so often and sometimes the kids can be really mean, but I remind myself that its not really me they are yelling at or angry with but something else triggered the reaction and sometimes if I'm patient I learn what it was and they seem to calm down.

I know I'm babbling, but everyone else can skip to the next post if they like. I know you don't mind me babbling to you on your thread. lol.

the point I want to make is we don't know how our actions and words affect other people. sometimes I feel like a fool but it gives others the opportunity to help me as you have done in the past by your kindness and compassion.

Sometimes we are sad, and heartbroken especially when we think about the troubles and the hurt people suffer daily. the abused children, those who die daily from lack of food, medicine, love. those who have never awaken spiritually but seek to fill the emptiness from lack of a relationship with God with other things like money, power, etc.

It makes me feel sad at times. So I read my Bible and take comfort in God's promises to heal those who are wounded and see that Justice is done to those who have been abused and oppressed.

We get hurt alot in life, but we have a choice: do we harden our hearts and stop caring for others?

Or do we allow our brokenness to be healed by God and our compassion for others to become actions and good works that aid them and show them God's love through our words, thoughts and deeds towards. for and with them.

If you don't want to see someone in Hell, pray for them and ask God to give them godly sorrow that leads to repentance and acceptance of His grace and mercy so that they might be healed and LIVE.

for God tells us to pray.

James 5:16
Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.

Lol yeah I like your babbling

Anyways it's just the whole thought of eternal hell that bothers me so much. I can't even imagine how awful that would be. I like to joke around stuff but thinking about that makes me feel like I can never be happy. I won't give a long list of depressing stuff this time lol, but there's so much pain everywhere.

If I knew that everyone was going to heaven eventually things would be okay because everything turns to good. With eternal hell, there's eternal pain. How could God do that to those he created? Life is so incredibly serious if most people that I meet are going to be in in pain in hell forever. Idk maybe I just have trouble comprehending dying. There's been a couple of times when I was told about someone's death, and I kept saying "what?" over and over and had no idea what they were saying even though I heard what they were saying. Kind of weird I guess. I just don't understand how anyone could without pain and tears in heaven if they're husband or sister or whoever is in hell. I know some people say that in heaven past people are forgotten, but I don't believe that.

 

[AnandaHya]

MOM HE HIT ME FIRST@@!!!!!

But SHE BITE ME FIRST< NAH UH>>>>>

******stay tuned for episode two****hopefully moved to a different channel.....

Galatians 5:15
But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4ksqykqet0&feature=related[/video]

 

[AnandaHya]

Lol yeah I like your babbling

Anyways it's just the whole thought of eternal hell that bothers me so much. I can't even imagine how awful that would be. I like to joke around stuff but thinking about that makes me feel like I can never be happy. I won't give a long list of depressing stuff this time lol, but there's so much pain everywhere.

If I knew that everyone was going to heaven eventually things would be okay because everything turns to good. With eternal hell, there's eternal pain. How could God do that to those he created? Life is so incredibly serious if most people that I meet are going to be in in pain in hell forever. Idk maybe I just have trouble comprehending dying. There's been a couple of times when I was told about someone's death, and I kept saying "what?" over and over and had no idea what they were saying even though I heard what they were saying. Kind of weird I guess. I just don't understand how anyone could without pain and tears in heaven if they're husband or sister or whoever is in hell. I know some people say that in heaven past people are forgotten, but I don't believe that.

I don't know, I just have faith that if we pray and do what we can, God is able to save.

everything will be ok because eventually everything is made good and perfect in the New Heaven and New Earth.

death is not natural but came because of sin, that is why it shocks our soul so much.

I don't get the whole "in heaven past people are forgotten" part at all. so I can't really comment on that, for that thought hadn't crossed my mind before reading it here.

I'll pray about it.

have an exam tomorrow so need some sleep. hugs. love you. talk to you later.