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Sirk
Guest
Okay....I'm sure you have a great perspective and story to tell. I won't bother you anymore.
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kaylagrl
Guest
I see Lion Eyes is 24,sometimes you have to live some life before you realize your need for God.She may never but young people have less perspective.The older you get the more you realize how empty life can be.
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Tintin
Guest
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Sirk
Guest
Not surprising. Stiff neck religious people have a tendency to do that kind of hurting.
Nope, not even a little
My point is that Christ tells us all to submit. Men, women, adult, child, strong, weak. We all submit to someone. When I go to work, I submit to my boss. I listen to what he says, I call him sir, I do what he asks me to when I disagree, and I get in trouble by him when I dont get my job done. What do you believe Gods will is? Should I make a big mess and fight with him, or should I just do my job with faith in God? God has made this answer clear.Women arent the only people persecuted against btw. Everyday there are men who are abused, tortured and killed. God tells them to let it happen too. Christ was chained up, beaten, laughed at, spit on, scoffed at, scorned by people who claimed to follow Him, then killed in a very painful way, all so you can be free of your sins. Do you believe His will is to fight that bad things happen? Or endure in faith?
Thats what I mean by people making a big fuss of the problems they face. If you are a Christian, you should know what Christ went through for you, and allow it to happen to you as well. And not charge God that bad things happen to you, because He went through it all for you already.
God tells us He feels indignation everyday, from all of us.
Nope, not even a little
Women arent the only people persecuted against btw. Everyday there are men who are abused, tortured and killed. God tells them to let it happen too. Christ was chained up, beaten, laughed at, spit on, scoffed at, scorned by people who claimed to follow Him, then killed in a very painful way, all so you can be free of your sins. Do you believe His will is to fight that bad things happen? Or endure in faith?
Thats what I mean by people making a big fuss of the problems they face. If you are a Christian, you should know what Christ went through for you, and allow it to happen to you as well. And not charge God that bad things happen to you, because He went through it all for you already.
God tells us He feels indignation everyday, from all of us.
You keep saying that you can't see why I think gender roles are so insufferable.
Well I can't see how you can find any of that appealing.
We just have very, very different mentalities, and that's okay.
Nope, not even a little
Women arent the only people persecuted against btw. Everyday there are men who are abused, tortured and killed. God tells them to let it happen too. Christ was chained up, beaten, laughed at, spit on, scoffed at, scorned by people who claimed to follow Him, then killed in a very painful way, all so you can be free of your sins. Do you believe His will is to fight that bad things happen? Or endure in faith?
Thats what I mean by people making a big fuss of the problems they face. If you are a Christian, you should know what Christ went through for you, and allow it to happen to you as well. And not charge God that bad things happen to you, because He went through it all for you already.
God tells us He feels indignation everyday, from all of us.
Just so we are clear, if someone was abusing you or someone you loved, you would just let it happen?
Maybe he wasn't that wrong when associating feminism with...muscles. After all, the most famous propagandistic feminist poster is the one with a woman showing her big strong biceps and saying "We can do it" or "Long live the pill!" (Vive la pilule!) etc.
This poster alone and the slogans that accompany it show that, at least on a subconscious level, women want to be more like men and less like women - even (if not especially!) from the physical point of view.
It seems like the only purpose of the woman's body (the way she is constructed) is to achieve pregnancy. I am not surprised that women are upset about this truth. I mean, what woman had never said in her life "period, cramps, just give me a break, will ya?". But, period and cramps are the least of "bad" things that can happen to a woman. The worse thing that can happen to a woman is to get pregnant outside of marriage. Of course, today society is more civilized and they no longer shun the poor woman like they did before, but still, she will look like a fool if the father doesn't claim the child. You see? The discrimination comes from the bodies, the nature, God Himself who (in His wisdom) created us like this. A woman and a man equally partake into the same sin and yet, the sin is obvious only into the woman's body. And people (used to) mock her, laugh at her, call her "easy", stupid, fooled, unchaste etc. etc. And what happens to the man who left her pregnant? Nothing! Nothing.
So, women got fed up of being treated like this and said "enough is enough!". So, they claim the same rights as men. The right to act childish and irresponsible from time to time (just like men do) without being condemned for it (or support long-life consequences).
I wouldn't say women want to act childish like men. I think they just want to stop being treated like objects.
Going off on another topic, I was having a conversation with my boyfriend (who is a perfect gentleman) and he explained to me that it is not only the man's fault but also the woman's fault for the way she has been treated in the church. He explained that the reason is that in Ephesians 5:25-31 it tells husbands how to love their wives and a lot of women gloss over that and don't stand up for themselves, instead they take the abuse. The blame also falls on men for warping the verse so much that it hurts women. He said that if a man isn't treating his wife the way the Bible tells him to then that isn't love.
I kind of believe that and I kind of don't. I believe it because God gave woman a brain and we should use it (however a lot of times women are not encouraged to use their brains). I don't agree with him because sometimes a lot of these situations are far more complex than we understand. He explained about how "if there's a will there's a way" and I told him that a lot of women have lost their will due to manipulation by men. I was recently talking to a woman who was in an abusive situation and I asked her if she would leave and she said no because she loved him and that she wouldn't be able to support herself without him. This kind of thing sickens me to my very core and unfortunately in many cases Ephesians 5:22-24 is used to manipulate women. That wasn't the case with this woman but there are times where it is the case. That is why I have a problem with that verse.
Sorry if I'm going on a tangent but this is an issue that is near and dear to my heart. I hope this makes sense.
I kind of believe that and I kind of don't. I believe it because God gave woman a brain and we should use it (however a lot of times women are not encouraged to use their brains). I don't agree with him because sometimes a lot of these situations are far more complex than we understand. He explained about how "if there's a will there's a way" and I told him that a lot of women have lost their will due to manipulation by men. I was recently talking to a woman who was in an abusive situation and I asked her if she would leave and she said no because she loved him and that she wouldn't be able to support herself without him. This kind of thing sickens me to my very core and unfortunately in many cases Ephesians 5:22-24 is used to manipulate women. That wasn't the case with this woman but there are times where it is the case. That is why I have a problem with that verse.
Sorry if I'm going on a tangent but this is an issue that is near and dear to my heart. I hope this makes sense.
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Sirk
Guest
Relationships are a tricky thing and it is my opinion that in bad ones....both parties are co-conspiritors in ignorance. I know it sounds harsh and you might ask....how could someone who is abused be part of the problem.
It is interesting for me that the media (and today's culture, or better said lack of culture) promotes as powerful, independent and confident the type of woman who seems (from the attitude, clothes etc.) she wants to be treated like an object (ex. Beyonce, Nicky Minaj, Lady Gaga).
Has anyone else notice this? The media promotes "being-slutty" as desirable and as proof of real emancipation.
Also, JFSurvivor, I am not sure I agree that in a patriarchal culture women are treated like objects. Women have been assigned with certain "duties" but I think it is exaggerated to believe or say that men treated them like objects. It is rather today that man treat them like objects (because they are encouraged to do so by women themselves!).
It's not just manipulation either. An abused person is most likely to be killed by an abusive spouse when they try to leave. Fear can be just as much a prison as steel bars and locked doors.
Abuse is not a relationship problem; it's a deliberate choice by one party, and that party takes full responsibility for that choice. It's no different from the decision to commit any other crime. If you see a rich person walking down a seedy alleyway in a bad neighborhood, you are still making a conscious decision to mug them and you take full responsibility for that decision.
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Sirk
Guest
Would you choose to have a relationship with someone who mugs people...or that you know to be violent? Seems like it happens all the time.
Excuse me, Sir. You just missed the train to Pointsville. The next one will be arriving shortly.
Furthermore, a relationship doesn't start out as abusive. Abusers are rarely controlling and violent in the beginning stages of the relationship. The psychopathic variety are especially adept at this due to their manipulative and cunning nature. I've talked to quite a few psychopaths who were either married or in long-term relationships, and they treat it like a game. They will gleefully tell you that they are the perfect gentlemen in the early stages of the game, and how this is nothing more than a clever deceit used to ensnare their target. They even use the word "target". Abusers only become violent and controlling when their victim can't escape so easily; i.e. when they've already isolated their victim from any sort of support system and when they've taken control of all of the funds.
Muggers operate in a similar fashion. They single out people who are most vulnerable to attack, such as people who are not paying attention to their surroundings while walking alone in an unpopulated area.
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Sirk
Guest
Not necessary to be condescending. I did not miss the point. I'm simply looking at it from an angle you have not considered.
Well the part about women encouraging that is not all that false. I can see how that is true, however thoughts like that come from the patriarchy. Plus, if you look at the way things are in the world, when a woman gets raped, who gets blamed? The woman.
Here's a bit from my past:
As a sexual abuse survivor I can certainly say that women are encouraged to be little blonde bimbos by both men AND women. When I was in high school my female teacher used to say, "If I go to downtown Chicago at 2 in the morning and I'm wearing a plunging neckline and I get raped that's my fault." Also at school women were not allowed to lift heavy objects and the guys were always expected to give up their seats for a lady. However there was a lot of sexual bullying that got swept under the rug and a lot of horrible demeaning jokes towards women that the teachers laughed at too. All these ideas and thoughts and actions, I believe, are from that no-good patriarchy.
Feminism promotes that men be accountable for their actions and that women don't get stuck with the blame for stuff that was out of their control. I do not agree with everything feminism stands for like abortion but I do think it has some very legitimate claims as to how women ought to be treated. I believe that women have good brains in their heads and the reason a lot of women are afraid of using them is because they want to please men.
I cannot see how that verse about women submitting to their husbands by itself can be a good thing. When it is read in it's full context I can understand it, but if it's just "women be good little wives now and do as your told." I can't understand that and that's something that I cannot adhere to. I also cannot adhere to taking abuse for anything other than Christ. I will be abused for Christ but not for being a woman.
Sorry I was kinda all over the place. Thanks for reading my rant.