is jesus god ?? or son of g0d ?

[wakeup]

Dear Wakeup, Zossima did not say anything wrong. I haven't read it yet, but I, too, would recommend the book "ON THE INCARNATION" by St. Athanasios the Great. He was a great Church father/teacher. In Erie PA Scott Harrington PS You will not rightly understand the Bible without the Church that wrote the Bible (1 Tim. 3:15). You may fall into some kind of doctrinal error if you don't have the Church and the Holy Spirit to correct you. If I fall into any error, I pray God send to me an Orthodox Christian to show me the way back to the truth. Of course, Wakeup, If you do not believe in the Trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, you surely should believe that, because it is taught by God in Scripture; See Matthew 28:19, and so on. God bless you. Amen.

DEAR ZOSSIMA:

WHY ARE YOU STUDYING THIS BOOK ON INCARNATION ? IF YOU ARE TRULY SEEKING FOR
SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE , WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO GET KNOWLEDGE FROM BOOKS
WRITTEN BY MEN? YOU SHOULD KNOW BY NOW THAT MAN CAN NOT TEACH YOU SPIRITUAL TRUTH.
IF YOU WANT TO SEEK GOD , YOU SEEK THE WORD OF GOD ( THE HOLY BIBLE )
THAT IS WHY GOD GAVE US THE BIBLE, YOU CAN NOT SNEEK AROUND SOME OTHER WAY.
I AM THE WAY JESUS SAID,NO MAN CAN COME TO THE FATHER BUT BY ME. (THE WORD OF GOD.)
GO BACK TO GOD ( THE BIBLE )
NOT A BOOK WRITING ABOUT THE BIBLE. DONT YOU BELIEVE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT?

 

[ablessedman50]

Try this & see if it's simple enough to work
God The Father & his son Lord Jesus Christ, there are 2, both God, equal in power, having the same purpose, & the same spirit!!
Not one or 3. Is it possible that both mainline doctrines are wrong?
In Genesis, who was God talking to when he said ( Let US make man in OUR image ) Do we think he is schizophrenic & was talking to himself??? I think not
Look at all the letters of Paul, always his salutations were from God the Father & Lord Jesus Christ ( 2 )
not 1 or 3.
Jesus is God & the son of God, he gave up his divinity to become a man 100% @ the request of the Father & The Father raised him from the dead. No mystery here don't you think!!!!!!! Very simple just as God intended it to be!!!!!!

 

[mpaper345]

Let us make man in our image is a prophetic statement to the coming Son of God(Genesis 1:26).

The Bible says that God calls things that have not yet happened as though they already happened(Romans 4:17),because if it is a plan of God in His mind to happen in the future it will come to pass.

The Bible says the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world(Revelation 13:8),although we know it did not happen until 4000 years later,because God calls things that have not happened as though they already happened.

Even though the Son,the man Christ,was not born until 4000 years after creation(Galatians 4:4,Romans 1:3),He can still exist in the beginning because He was a plan of God to happen in the future.

The Bible says there is one God,and one mediator between God and men,the man Christ Jesus(1 Timothy 2:5).

Our savior is the man Christ Jesus for only a sinless man can approach a holy God on mankind's behalf.

No man is sinless so God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus to be that sinless man,who is God manifest in the flesh,fully God and fully man(1 Timothy 3:16,Colossians 2:8-10).

God manifest in the flesh is God and the Son,the man Christ Jesus(2 Corinthians 5:19).

The Old Testament says that God created man after His image(Genesis 1:27).

The New Testament says Adam was made in the image of Christ(Romans 5:14).

The image of God is the image of Christ,who is God manifest in the flesh.

Adam was made an innocent nature in flesh,a living soul,and Christ is an innocent nature in flesh,a quickening spirit.

God had the plan to come in the future manifest in flesh,and He created Adam in the image that He would appear in the future.

Let us make man in our image is a prophetic statement to the coming Son of God and is God and the Son,the man Christ Jesus,which the man Christ Jesus can be in the beginning even though He was not born until 4000 years later because He was a plan of God to be born in the future.

Let us,Me God and My Son,the man Christ Jesus,make man in the image we will show up in the future,and that is God manifest in the flesh,fully God and fully man,God and the man Christ Jesus.

 

[PBUH]

Let us make man in our image is a prophetic statement to the coming Son of God(Genesis 1:26).

The Bible says that God calls things that have not yet happened as though they already happened(Romans 4:17),because if it is a plan of God in His mind to happen in the future it will come to pass.

The Bible says the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world(Revelation 13:8),although we know it did not happen until 4000 years later,because God calls things that have not happened as though they already happened.

Even though the Son,the man Christ,was not born until 4000 years after creation(Galatians 4:4,Romans 1:3),He can still exist in the beginning because He was a plan of God to happen in the future.

The Bible says there is one God,and one mediator between God and men,the man Christ Jesus(1 Timothy 2:5).

Our savior is the man Christ Jesus for only a sinless man can approach a holy God on mankind's behalf.

No man is sinless so God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus to be that sinless man,who is God manifest in the flesh,fully God and fully man(1 Timothy 3:16,Colossians 2:8-10).

God manifest in the flesh is God and the Son,the man Christ Jesus(2 Corinthians 5:19).

The Old Testament says that God created man after His image(Genesis 1:27).

The New Testament says Adam was made in the image of Christ(Romans 5:14).

The image of God is the image of Christ,who is God manifest in the flesh.

Adam was made an innocent nature in flesh,a living soul,and Christ is an innocent nature in flesh,a quickening spirit.

God had the plan to come in the future manifest in flesh,and He created Adam in the image that He would appear in the future.

Let us make man in our image is a prophetic statement to the coming Son of God and is God and the Son,the man Christ Jesus,which the man Christ Jesus can be in the beginning even though He was not born until 4000 years later because He was a plan of God to be born in the future.

Let us,Me God and My Son,the man Christ Jesus,make man in the image we will show up in the future,and that is God manifest in the flesh,fully God and fully man,God and the man Christ Jesus.

Sorry too much speculation. Not enough proof.

 

[trust_in_the_name]

Sorry too much speculation. Not enough proof.

God did not simply make man in His image as He would be when He was born into the world (John 1). Indeed, even in Old Testament, it is known that God is a man. I have a separate thread about this. You can go there to see it, if you like.

8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. (Hebrews 13:8)

 

[endofallfears]

There is a reason Jesus, the Second person of the Triune God, is called the "Word".

We are told, "No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him." (John 1:18)

You will notice this is the same chapter where we are told, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God." (John 1:1)

John references where the universe was spoken into being. "All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made." (John 1:3)

God has communicated to us through creation and it is the Word that declared it, literally spoke it into being.

The Old Testament often refers to "the angel of the Lord", who is also called "Lord", telling us this messenger was, in fact, God Himself. If the work of a messenger is to declare the message, and no one has seen the father, then this angel, called the "Lord", must be the second person known as the "Word".

For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13*And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account. (He 4:12-13)

The writer speaks of the "word of God" as a person, and says "no creature is hidden from HIS sight," and how all things are "naked and open to the eyes of HIM", and we see we must give an account to the word of God.

The "word of God is the person of Jesus Christ, as we are told, "for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." (Rev 19:10d)

Jesus is the Word, because it is through Him God communicates to us all the wonder and goodness of His divine nature.

 

[Peacefulcrusader]

I AM SORRY YOU GUYS , I KNOW THIS IS THE MOST DEEP SUBJECT TO DISCUS,
JUST SHOWERING THE SCREEN WITH SCR. THAT IS NOT RELATED TO THE QUESTION
DOES NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION. MY QUESTIONS WERE HONEST QUESTIONS,AND NO ONE
CANANSWER IT SO FAR. MAYBE NEXT TIME. WAKEUP

Are you sure that your main question in itself is a good question? Why can not Jesus be both God and the Son of God? Well, understand me correctly; I believe that he is both the Son of God and God through the fact that he is fully of the Being of God. I believe that many have already given a lot of Scriptural evidence for this. There are many passages which testify that Jesus was God, and there are of course lots of passages speaking about him being the Son. But maybe you prefer having an open discussion without answers... Well, that is fait in itself, but then, no one will be able to give you any answers...

 

[Worship]

Christ is God, is the Only-begotten Son of God.

If Jesus (peace be upon him) was God, that means that he is not son of God, and if he is son of God, that means that he is not our God.

 

[Peacefulcrusader]

If Jesus (peace be upon him) was God, that means that he is not son of God, and if he is son of God, that means that he is not our God.

Hi. No, it is not necessarily as you say. Christians believe that Jesus is the Son, but that he is also God. Jesus is the Son and God, but not the Father. The Christian view of God is that God is both Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Because of that, Jesus is both Son and God!

 

[Worship]

Jesus is fully God and fully man.

If Jesus (peace be upon him) was human that mean that he was not God, and if he was God that mean that he was not human, it is not admissible to bilieve the biliever that Jesus (peace be upon him) was God and human becouse it is contradictory, like who say i have somthing existing nonexistent, therefore if somone said that it is existing not nonexistent he will call him a liar, and who said nonexistent not existing, he will call him a liar too, like who say i have somthing alive died, knower ignorant, able impotent, therefore who saying it is alive not died, he calling him a liar, and who saying it is died not alive, he calling him a liar, so u gathering between two sentence contrarys whith eachother, one of them truth and the another is false, who said the truth and denied the false you calling him alair, and who said the false and denied the truth you calling him alaier, and any sentence gatharing the thing and its contrary, is false, and the one who saying that Jesus (peace be upon him) was God man is doing that, becouse God is INFINITE, God is ETERNAL, man is FINITE and temporary, what does it mean then to say that the INFINITE became FINITE, the ETERNAL became temporary and still stayed ETERNAL and still stayed INFINITE, saying that jesus was God human means that jesus was INFINITE FINITE, when somone saying that jesus was God not human, you find another saying that is wrong and who saying that jesus was human not God u find the sameone saying that is wrong too, saying that Jesus was God and was human is contradictory in itself, therefore there is no need to know by evedince falseness of saying that jesus was God human, although the evidences showing that.

 

[ablessedman50]

I answered your question in a way that makes perfect sense. Once again. there are 2, God the Father & his son Lord Jesus Christ. The Son gave up his Divinity to become a man & died on the cross, for the salvation of mankind. The Father raised him from the dead. He then ascended back to the Father to regain his divinity & sent his Spirit back to man as the intercessor to the Father. Go to this site & look for books & booklets on the left side, then look for the book on the Trinity for a more in depth study & answer.
The Restored Church of God - The Greatest Questions. Plain Answers.

 

[Devolution]

Jesus is NOT the Father. This is impossible. Instead of the usual obvious replies, what about this one:

Hebrews 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, whom He hath appointed HEIR of all things, by whom also He made the worlds.

Can a HEIR inherit what is already his? Can you be a HEIR to your OWN goods? NO that is silly, you would be laughed at by every lawyer and asked if you UNDERSTOOD what HEIR means....

APPOINTED HEIR...this appointed means AUTHORIZED, PLACED, PUT INTO POSITION....why, if already in that position, would one need to appoint oneself to that position ALREADY held? Again, trinity just contradicts with many many scriptures so therefore cannot be correct.

And the most glaringly obvious...SON !!! Is your son you? Are you your father?

 

[journey41]

Jesus is NOT the Father. This is impossible. Instead of the usual obvious replies, what about this one:

Hebrews 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, whom He hath appointed HEIR of all things, by whom also He made the worlds.

Can a HEIR inherit what is already his? Can you be a HEIR to your OWN goods? NO that is silly, you would be laughed at by every lawyer and asked if you UNDERSTOOD what HEIR means....

APPOINTED HEIR...this appointed means AUTHORIZED, PLACED, PUT INTO POSITION....why, if already in that position, would one need to appoint oneself to that position ALREADY held? Again, trinity just contradicts with many many scriptures so therefore cannot be correct.

And the most glaringly obvious...SON !!! Is your son you? Are you your father?

Good point Devo

 

[HeavenwithinYOU]

Jesus is God. The Father is God. The Holy Spirit is God. Jesus is NOT the Father, the Father is the Father, Jesus is as much God as the Father but not the Father, for He loves His Father and would never take that glory away, so we must understand that God means POWER and authority, etc.. and Jesus was pure God and pure man, making Him king of kings (earthly king) and Lord of Lord's (heavenly King).

Now some say Jesus was God incarnate, which is true, but He is not the Father, but He is God. The Father is in Heaven as well as Christ Jesus the Son, Heaven itself is the Father's throne and in heaven Jesus Christ has a throne too. That is why Jesus says that as He overcame and shared His Father's throne whoever overcomes will share His throne with Him as well. Jesus is all about sharing power because those who love Him become rulers with Him. NOT JUST LOVE HIM but do HIS WILL and ask HIM to come inside their souls and give them HIS LITERAL SPIRIT.. to be ONE with Christ and God... seek to stop sinning and ask JESUS to come inside and RULE YOUR SPIRIT as to not sin any more... ONCE HE DOES THIS, there is no question, you will be IN GOD and CHRIST quite literally.

1 Corinthians 15:27 For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

So God is above ALL...

1 Corinthians 11:13 - "Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God."

John 17:20 "I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us..."

Revelation 3:20 - "Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me."

... much love saints... STOP sinning ALL sins and saying sorry to God... instead FAST... read.. pray .. and ASK GOD to place Christ literally in you so that you can sin no MORE.. that is the GOAL.. and EVENTUALLY those in Christ should stop sinning!

· Romans 8:9 – “You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.”
· Galatians 5:20 – “Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.”[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]Ephesians 2:14 - [/FONT]For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.


..



..

 

[HeavenwithinYOU]

So why is there confusion? Because somebody started a VERY bad habit of telling another Christian who came up at an alter call: NOW YOU HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT!!! CONGRATULATIONS you are a child of GOD! NO Man has the right to say to another man THEY now have the HOLY SPIRIT... that is blaspheme... we can baptize someone in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, but the SPIRIT moves where He pleases and no man knows where HE comes from or where HE goes, only the SPIRIT can anoint ONCE and ONLY ONCE a man repents from his way, that means, does not go back and proves to God that they are not going to go back!

The Holy Spirit is not something YOU SAY YOU HAVE when you believe in Jesus Christ, its something GOD does within a person.... which is NO LESS then making that person ONE with the Father and SON in Spirit, that is the point, to work in you so that you eventually stop sinning!

Unless someone cries out asking God for power to stop sinning because they hate sin MORE than GOD hates it, nothing will happen because God is HOLY and sure HE hates sin, but HE is not the one who is trapped, WE ARE.. so it should bother us THE SAME IF NOT MORE than God because we are the ones that are stuck sinning in a body that cannot stop. HATE THE SINFUL NATURE then cry out, read, repent and continue to do this and GOD will give the HOLY SPIRIT.

ASSUME you have it when you don't and keep on sinning and saying sorry after sorry = going to hell.

IF SOMEONE cannot say: GOD rid me of my sinful nature because Jesus Christ literally entered into me and overpowered my will with HIS WILL....

THEN they are not in CHRIST!

NO QUESTIONS... JUST REPENT, READ... and seek.

IF ONE can go weeks without reading the word of GOD that means they are not in Christ because those in Christ cannot live without the word of God, GOD will not allow them to. HE will not let you sleep or eat until you have eaten the bread of LIFE.

MAKE SURE YOU ARE IN CHRIST PEOPLE.. MOST ARE NOT.

I know this for a FACT. JESUS SAID IT TOO: MANY will say LORD LORD and I will say I never knew you.. MANY...

NARROW IS THE ROAD.. have you found it? DOES JESUS CHRIST live inside and has he SHOWN HIMSELF TO YOU?

John 14:21 - "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."

 

[Worship]

We should ask ourselves another important Quesions more than that, Does God almighty crying , Matthew 27:46 ((Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying,“ My God, My God, why have Thou forsaken me'' ))
Is that our God, in Mark 14 :33 " And began to be sore amazed, and to be very heavy ", Matt 26 :37: " And began to be sorrowful and very heavy "
What makes our Creator sorrowful to that magnitude, in John 11 :35: " Jesus wept ",what makes the creator of the heavens and the earth sorrowful like that, Mark14 :34 " And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death ".
God almighty is that {So glory to Him in Whose hands is the dominion of all things: and to Him will ye be all brought back} Qur'an 36:83
The one true God can not be anything but that { there is nothing whatever like unto Him, and He is the One that hears and sees (all things)} Qur'an42:11
That is Our lord {Is not He, Who created the heavens and the earth Able to create the like of them? Yes, indeed! He is the All-Knowing Supreme Creator.When He intends anything, He needs only say: 'Be', and it is. Glorified is He in Whose hand is the absolute control of everything, and to Him you shall all be returned} Qur'an36:81,82,83, Therefore, {They do blaspheme who say: "God is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O children of Israel! worship God , my Lord, and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with God¯God will forbid him the Garden and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help }Qur'an5:72, therefore, God said{Why turn they not to God and seek His forgiveness? For God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful} Qur'an 5:74.

 

[Crazy4GODword]

can you honestly anwer thes questions then, without going all over the place .

1. you said that that GOD resurected him self ? that only means he did not realy die ?

2. but the scribture said he died and was burried for three and a half days?

3. whos voice was it from heaven that says , this is my beloved son ?

4. who is sitting on the right hand side of god in heaven? pslm.110:1 .









































if jesus is GOD, then who rose him from the dead?

if jesus rose himself from the dead, then he was not realy dead (was it all a hoax?)

who then is sitting on the right hand of god?pslm110:1.

is GOD the son of david?

when he was on the cross did not GOD leave him? (my GOD , myGOD why have you forsaken me.)

didnt he say just when he died, father into your hand i commend my spirit (luke 23:46)

was he just playing agame with us? this doctrine that jesus is GOD it not bringing people to god but to the contrary. you can not just make up a doctrine . just because you can not understand a scribture

i know JOHN1:1 can not br understood by the christian world . so they invented the doctrine of the trinity,

annd the world loved it , and embraced it ? what is embraced by the world usualy are things of the world.=======wakeup""

you seem not to get it....there is a difference between Son of man and Son of God, He was talking about the Son of man being crucified and then being resurrected from the dead by God. (Luke 9:22) (Luke 9:44) (Matthew 26:2).....etc


If you want i can show you more verses

 

[Crazy4GODword]

you seem not to get it....there is a difference between Son of man and Son of God, He was talking about the Son of man being crucified and then being resurrected from the dead by God. (Luke 9:22) (Luke 9:44) (Matthew 26:2).....etc


If you want i can show you more verses

Son of man and Son of God is both Jesus but they are the split sides of Jesus. Son of man is the human side of Jesus, the weak and homeless side. Son of God is the God almighty side and He is the one manifesting inside Christ and doing the things which is righteous and much more.

 

[mpaper345]

The term Son means to be begotten and come after the Father,or else the term Son has no meaning.

How can the Son be called the Son if He has no Father and no beginning.How can the Father be the Father of the Son if the Son has no beginning.

If some says the Son has a beginning that believes the Son is God,the Bible says there was no God formed after God and no formed after God so the Son cannot be created God.

The Son cannot have no beginning because He is called the Son which means to have a beginning,but the Son cannot be a created God,for there was no God created after God.

The truth is that there is no God the Son,but the Son is the man Christ Jesus,giving the term Son meaning in coming after the Father,and not a created God verifying with scripture that there was no God formed after God.

Jesus is the only begotten Son of God,which means that He is the only human being ever conceived by the Holy Spirit,where the saints are adopted in to the kingdom.

 

[Crazy4GODword]

The term Son means to be begotten and come after the Father,or else the term Son has no meaning.

How can the Son be called the Son if He has no Father and no beginning.How can the Father be the Father of the Son if the Son has no beginning.

If some says the Son has a beginning that believes the Son is God,the Bible says there was no God formed after God and no formed after God so the Son cannot be created God.

The Son cannot have no beginning because He is called the Son which means to have a beginning,but the Son cannot be a created God,for there was no God created after God.

The truth is that there is no God the Son,but the Son is the man Christ Jesus,giving the term Son meaning in coming after the Father,and not a created God verifying with scripture that there was no God formed after God.

Jesus is the only begotten Son of God,which means that He is the only human being ever conceived by the Holy Spirit,where the saints are adopted in to the kingdom.

you are correct on your begotten part, He is God's only begotten Son. but there is an error with your understanding. Christ is God but not the Father, The Holy Spirit is God but not Christ, The Father is God but not the Holy Spirit. the part about the trinity is people think we trinitarians believe in multiple Gods....that is a lie, we believe they the three are God for there is only one God. God is the Spirit and the Son is the Father....but the Spirit is not the Son and the Son is not the Father and the Father is not the Spirit. If no one understands this then they were never saved.....reason why i say this is because people want to lower the divine power of Christ (exactly what the devil is doing).

See if it was just a man, then our salvation is pretty much worthless but if our salvation came from the blood of the Holy Son of God who is God manifested in a man, then we have been washed in a divine love. If you were saved by a man then you are not saved at all...where is the truth in that, where is the life that God has granted to those who believe.

When Jesus was meaning if you believe me you will have eternal life, He was not meaning knowing His existence as a man on earth but His divine existence and His purpose here to die and believe also means do and obey Him.

The devil want men to not know who Jesus is, he want people to think lowly of Him....think about what Jesus have said in the gospels....everything He said made it clear that He was greater than Elijah and Moses and even David.

I am taking this seriously and people need to understand or else the blood of Jesus means nothing to their ears, eyes and understanding.

God bless you all