Is Paul or Jesus your main guide?

[Carry_Your_Name]

“Jesus's teaching in the gospels always comes first”

amen totally agree

“Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people.

My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭51:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:19-21‬ ‭

“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:27-30‬ ‭

I’m saying that mostly because there’re too much confusion, abuse and misunderstanding over the Pauline doctrine, especially when it comes to grace vs work, Israel vs the Church, second coming, afterlife and some other big topics. If you go to the red letters in the gospels, Jesus’s positions in these things are very clear, and He uses parables as a teaching tool, so everybody can get a hang of it.

 

[John146]

Luke 2
29“Sovereign Lord, as you have promised,

you may now dismiss d your servant in peace.

30For my eyes have seen your salvation,

31which you have prepared in the sight of all nations:

32a light for revelation to the Gentiles,

and the glory of your people Israel.”

Just because the salvation for Gentiles was a revelation to them that only the well read in the scriptures understood did not mean that Jesus preached another Gospel only to Jews. He made it very clear from the beginning of his ministry that the Jews were in such a bad place spiritually that His ministry would be like Elijah and Elisha ministering miracles among the gentiles.

Just because some of your DTS scholars dreamed up hyperdispensationalism because they did not comprehend that Jesus was preaching to the gentiles all along doesn't make them correct.

Luke 4:
oseph’s son?” they asked.

23Jesus said to them, “Surely you will quote this proverb to me: ‘Physician, heal yourself!’ And you will tell me, ‘Do here in your hometown what we have heard that you did in Capernaum.’ ”

24“Truly I tell you,” he continued, “no prophet is accepted in his hometown. 25I assure you that there were many widows in Israel in Elijah’s time, when the sky was shut for three and a half years and there was a severe famine throughout the land. 26Yet Elijah was not sent to any of them, but to a widow in Zarephath in the region of Sidon. 27And there were many in Israel with leprosy g in the time of Elisha the prophet, yet not one of them was cleansed—only Naaman the Syrian.”

28All the people in the synagogue were furious when they heard this.

The cross was hidden even though he saw the one who was to provide salvation. Take a few steps back to Luke 1.

67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

Israel’s redemption included being saved from their enemies to serve God without fear. That’s part of the gospel message of the kingdom promised to the Jews only. The Gentiles had no such covenant with God.

 

[John146]

Jesus's teaching in the gospels always comes first, especially Matthew.

Do you believe forgiveness of sins is conditional on you forgiving others first? Or is it solely based on what Christ did at the cross?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Do you believe forgiveness of sins is conditional on you forgiving others first? Or is it solely based on what Christ did at the cross?

In Christ alone!

 

[oyster67]

I love Paul, he makes me dig deep into the ways of the Lord. But for getting to the joy of living, to know the bottom line of all things, it is Christ I follow.

Amen. Paul did his best, but he was fallible and had to be rebuked at times just like the rest of us. We learn by his mistakes just as we learn form his victories. Same with all the other men of God except for Jesus. Only He is perfect truth. Only He is the Word manifested in the flesh. You are right about how some men try to make Paul equal with Jesus. Some men worship angels a well. All Scripture is inspired and profitable because it tells the good, the bad, and the ugly. It pulls no punches and sugarcoats nothing. Good OP.

 

[Evmur]

God didn't fail.

He gave the dummies what they wanted.

But the dummies couldn't fulfill their end of the agreement.


So the dummies needed a new agreement. Which He gave that to them as well.

But the dummies want to go back to the first agreement, that they couldn't fulfill, and somehow keep trying to work at it (and fail at) in their own understanding and strength.

Like kids on a merry-go-round they fall off, dust themselves off, have a little cry and then jump back on.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The Israelites were not a mixed group, but specifically from the tribes of Jacob. Yes?

“ the children of isreal “ are simply jacobs children and thier descendants. Israel is Jacobs name and his twelve sons made up the tribes of the children of Israel. They were to allow converts later when they entered the promised land.

“And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭35:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He, his wife and twelve sons make up israel who entered goshen in Egypt during the great and terrible famine , and the children of Israel are all thier descendants who God 400 years later led out from Egypt into the desert of sin. And later destroyed them all and thier descendants then were led into the land of promise. Where they began to accept gentile converts who were circumcised and converted to Swear by the law

 

[Aaron56]

Only within a doctrine that diminishes the Christ resident within His own would an idea that the gospels are more important than the epistles be accepted. Together they complete the picture. One would not exist without the other. Christ is not a headless body, nor is the body of Christ headless. Together, in heven and in earth, the body is a complete unit in the Spirit. Paul is not Paul without Christ and Christ chose Paul and others to represent Him. Certainly Christ is the High Priest but the priests are responsible for the administration of the order.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Only within a doctrine that diminishes the Christ resident within His own would an idea that the gospels are more important than the epistles be accepted. Together they complete the picture. One would not exist without the other. Christ is not a headless body, nor is the body of Christ headless. Together, in heven and in earth, the body is a complete unit in the Spirit. Paul is not Paul without Christ and Christ chose Paul and others to represent Him. Certainly Christ is the High Priest but the priests are responsible for the administration of the order.

the gospels are far more important because they are the foundation to understand the epistles and the gospels aren’t dependent of the epistles in any way.

The epistles would make no sense without the gospel but the gospel would make sense without the epistles. They do go together but the gospels are the most important by far scripture that exists everything else is witnessing the truth of the gospel.

It’s like saying Jesus isn’t more important than his servants and witnesses, but of course he is without Paul he would have just annointed another witness but without Jesus no one could be saved

like a foundation is most important to a house the words of Jesus Christ are of far more value than any

of course the epistles are important because they witness of Jesus and the gospel and teach from what he already established

I myself believe without the four gospels the entirety of scripture falls apart and can’t save anyone but it’s just my own conviction

 

[Blik]

Some folks will go a long way to divide God's people.

Mat 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
Mat 12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

Listening to how Paul teaches and seeing the difference in how Christ teaches is not dividing the teaching, it is understanding the teachings.

 

[Beckie]

Listening to how Paul teaches and seeing the difference in how Christ teaches is not dividing the teaching, it is understanding the teachings.

I believe the Scripture are the word of God. Your postings read to me as if you you do not believe so. I do not believe there is conflict in Gods' word.

 

[Magenta]

Paul didn’t die for my sins

That is true that Paul didn’t die for our sins as Christ did, but he did die in service to the Lord, doing more to clarify and spread the gospel message than probably any other human being alive at the time, or since then. Sometimes I think, if each of us was even just a miniscule more like Paul, the world would be revolutionized. Certainly our lives would look different than they do with the cumulative effect of such reverberating throughout our communities and out into the world at large The magnitude of what Paul accomplished is truly stunning given the opposition he faced on all sides.

 

[Snacks]

That is true that Paul didn’t die for our sins as Christ did, but he did die in service to the Lord, doing more to clarify and spread the gospel message than probably any other human being alive at the time, or since then. Sometimes I think, if each of us was even just a miniscule more like Paul, the world would be revolutionized. Certainly our lives would look different than they do with the cumulative effect of such reverberating throughout our communities and out into the world at large The magnitude of what Paul accomplished is truly stunning given the opposition he faced on all sides.

I wholeheartedly agree with you, and yet Jesus is my main guide. 😊

 

[Aaron56]

I myself believe without the four gospels the entirety of scripture falls apart and can’t save anyone but it’s just my own conviction

Of course it does. But not to worry: they are firmly planted therein.

Paul is an outcome of the work of the gospel and the Holy Spirit. Paul and all in Christ are the living product of the gospel. We are whom the gospel birthed, so to speak.

Of course the foundation is important, but it is not a "House" without the walls and windows. Christ sets the plumb line for the building of the whole house. Yet the foundation is not even laid without the master builder.

"According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation..."

Here, Paul is saying he is true to Christ which is good, otherwise he would have been disqualified as a wise master builder.

Thinking the words of Jesus are more important than Paul's is a consequence of using "Christianity" to describe the faith of the saints. This Roman tradition elevated the teachings of the founding philosopher's over those of his students. This pattern does not exist "in Christ" where those who are faithful to Him are actually Him in corporate form. Just to be sure: no one, alone, is Christ. Christ is corporate and His body is in heaven and on earth. The faithful in Him are sent to preach only what they receive from Him; just as Jesus Christ only did what He saw His Father doing. "As the Father has sent Me, I am sending you."

But this is another thread.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

op: Jesus OR Paul vs JESUS And Paul!?

Thinking the words of Jesus are more important than Paul's is a consequence of using "Christianity" to describe the faith of the saints....But this is another thread.

You mean like these threads?:

God's Approval/TWO Different Gospels!

Distinctions In God's TWO Different Programs: Prophecy vs MYSTERY!

GRACE And Peace...

 

[Blik]

I believe the Scripture are the word of God. Your postings read to me as if you you do not believe so. I do not believe there is conflict in Gods' word.

I am asking you to believe the word of God, and to belief both Christ and Paul. I am asking you to think about the difference in how they present that truth, and what that means to us.

How could this be twisted into accusing of not believing scripture? The that thought is not in what I say, where did it come from?

 

[Beckie]

I am asking you to believe the word of God, and to belief both Christ and Paul. I am asking you to think about the difference in how they present that truth, and what that means to us.

How could this be twisted into accusing of not believing scripture? The that thought is not in what I say, where did it come from?

Thank you for the clarification .

 

[Duckybill]

You are just repeating what everyone knows and says. What isn't being spoken of is the very different ways they speak of these truths, and the different truths they each emphasize.

Jesus and Paul's teachings may be "different" but they NEVER contradict. Paul got his doctrine direct from Jesus. They cannot contradict in any way.

 

[Duckybill]

Whete does a Paul say that forgiveness is conditional on forgiving others? Where does Paul command to take a gift and offer it to a priest after being healed?

The ministry of Jesus was specifically to the Jews concerning the covenant God made with them. Paul’s ministry was to the Gentile world who had no covenant with God. Different ministry, different teachings.

See above.

 

[Snacks]

Everyone here had better say JESUS. He is the way, the truth, and the life...........

Paul was an Apostle who preached the Gospel of Jesus.

Anyone following Paul is on the wrong path. Following Paul won't get anyone to eternal life! Reading what Paul preached is good, but placing him above/in front of Jesus is downright crazy!

How did this post ^*^^ get a red x? 😳