Is Physical Healing Provided In The Atonement?

[TheLearner]

just poking around on this topic

 

[Evmur]

Yeah, when I read this discussion thread, I remembered reading about Pastor David Wilkerson's grand daughter. Cancer runs in the family of David Wilkerson's wife. She herself struggled with the battle her whole life and fortunately lived quite a long time and even survived her husband. But a lot of her relatives didn't. Her grand daughter only made it into her early teens. And she was also a believer.

And there are other Christians too I've known or heard about who weren't healed. I think it's for a greater purpose though. I don't think God would allow a child of His to suffer unnecessarily unless it helps either that person or someone else to grow in some way.

You have to show this from Christ's ministry. He is the revelation of God in the flesh. He came not to do His own will but to do the will of Him who sent Him.

He healed ALL who came to Him.

Never did He said "go thy way die in pain and suffering in order for some good to come" never did He say that.

It is better for us to say we have not attained to the place yet that we ought to be in than to make up false philosophies.

Let's put our hands up and cry to the Lord until we become a people that the Presence of the Lord will be with us to heal.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Matthew 17:14-20
Easy-to-Read Version
Jesus Frees a Boy From an Evil Spirit
14 Jesus and the followers went back to the people. A man came to Jesus and bowed before him. 15 The man said, “Lord, be kind to my son. He suffers so much from the seizures he has. He often falls into the fire or into the water. 16 I brought him to your followers, but they could not heal him.”

17 Jesus answered, “You people today have no faith. Your lives are so wrong! How long must I stay with you? How long must I continue to be patient with you? Bring the boy here.” 18 Jesus gave a strong command to the demon inside the boy. The demon came out of the boy, and the boy was healed.

19 Then the followers came to Jesus alone. They said, “We tried to force the demon out of the boy, but we could not. Why were we not able to make the demon go out?”

20 Jesus answered, “You were not able to make the demon go out, because your faith is too small. Believe me when I tell you, if your faith is only as big as a mustard seed you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. You will be able to do anything.”

I don't know if any of you realize this, but the ultimate healing is death. Maybe God didn't heal some believers because it was actually the time for that person to go home to the Lord? Absent from the body, present with the Lord. Even Paul didn't seem to mind if God took him home earlier than he anticipated.

 

[Evmur]

James 5
13 Are you having troubles? You should pray. Are you happy? You should sing. 14 Are you sick? Ask the elders of the church to come and rub oil on you[d] in the name of the Lord and pray for you. 15 If such a prayer is offered in faith, it will heal anyone who is sick. The Lord will heal them. And if they have sinned, he will forgive them.

16 So always tell each other the wrong things you have done. Then pray for each other. Do this so that God can heal you. Anyone who lives the way God wants can pray, and great things will happen. 17 Elijah was a person just like us. He prayed that it would not rain. And it did not rain on the land for three and a half years! 18 Then Elijah prayed that it would rain. And the rain came down from the sky, and the land grew crops again.

Note: it is the faith of the elders. I never thought of that, whoose faith is needed for healing?

definitely not the needy one who is at fault.

 

[TheLearner]

I don't know if any of you realize this, but the ultimate healing is death. Maybe God didn't heal some believers because it was actually the time for that person to go home to the Lord? Absent from the body, present with the Lord. Even Paul didn't seem to mind if God took him home earlier than he anticipated.

The Resurrection is the fantastic healing of all.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

You have to show this from Christ's ministry. He is the revelation of God in the flesh. He came not to do His own will but to do the will of Him who sent Him.

He healed ALL who came to Him.

Never did He said "go thy way die in pain and suffering in order for some good to come" never did He say that.

It is better for us to say we have not attained to the place yet that we ought to be in than to make up false philosophies.

Let's put our hands up and cry to the Lord until we become a people that the Presence of the Lord will be with us to heal.

Meh. Jesus healed people to show the Jews that He is the Messiah. That was one of the signs. And afterward, healing does exist from prayer, but not always since we are already believers and don't need a sign. We most grow in our maturity and understanding of God.

1 John 5:14

This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

It isn't because of lack of faith by anyone. If a Christian prays for healing, but it's not God's will, that person isn't going to heal no matter who believes and prays for them.

Take for example Timothy:

1 Timothy 5:23

Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.

Why didn't Paul or other elders just pray over Timothy to be healed of his frequent illnesses? Why didn't God take away the thorn on Paul's side? Why did Pastor David Wilkerson's grand daughter die from cancer so young?

Healing can happen, but greater glory belongs to God if a He chooses not to heal a Christian, but rather strengthens them through the illness or disability.

I'd rather listen to Christians who had to live through their ailments and the survivors who lost family and still remained faithful to the Lord. That in itself is a miracle to be able withstand the hardship and not fall away.

Like Joni Eareckson Tada or Nick Vijicic. Or any Christian who battles cancer or some other painful or terminal disease that God chooses not to heal. Because if you can go through all that hardship and STILL love and serve God, then that's the person I want to learn from.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Well, in the most examples Jesus heals for to proofes that he is the Messajah. Yes, with the Intention that they believe his word and trust him and his heavenly father. For to be saved for eternity.

AMEN!

James 5 is a passage which shows that the authority to heal lays in the hands of the eldest of the church. Which should pray for the sin confessing believer.

AMEN!

So where are the churches today where this is practized as it is written?

Good Question, but I don't rely on what the Church does, because I Walk with God and am Capable of Believing what Scripture instructs us to do and then do it by myself through God.

You are speaking not to people which dont know Jesus.

OK!

Your Adressat are children of God, which are already have shown that they trust Jesus. Otherwise they would not be children of God.

True!

Now these people have lack on faith?

if someone can Believe Jesus is God and have never met Him in the Person, they have Faith. But, do they know how to use that Faith, that is the real question?

Because they are not be healed?

if they Lack Faith, it's not only because they believe they cannot be healed, but they don't believe it can happen to them.

he reality shows from beginning of churchhistory that believers become sick and deseases and finaly die. And not only because of old age weakness.

All throughout the Bible God allowed His Own People to suffer in multiple ways.

If you are claiming now that every sick believer will be healed if he has just enough faith. Then I call this a false doctrine. Because it is simply not true.

haha, I am saying, if you do not believe you can be healed, you won't even try to get healed.
if you believe you can be healed, there's a better Hope that God will heal you.
even if you are not healed, it's all about how you Believed.
Because, if you can believe to be Healed, you have surrendered completely to God and that's what God wants from us all.
So, it's a Win all the way around.

What is true is, that the Lord can heal every believer.

He can heal both Believer and Sinner equally.

Thats why we pray to our heavenly father for heal a person.

We use Jesus Name, if we want the Sick to actually be Healed.

Finaly it is his decision to do it or not. I trust in anyway he is doing the right. And he loves us!

AMEN!

 

[Evmur]

Meh. Jesus healed people to show the Jews that He is the Messiah. That was one of the signs. And afterward, healing does exist from prayer, but not always since we are already believers and don't need a sign. We most grow in our maturity and understanding of God.

1 John 5:14

This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

It isn't because of lack of faith by anyone. If a Christian prays for healing, but it's not God's will, that person isn't going to heal no matter who believes and prays for them.

Take for example Timothy:

1 Timothy 5:23

Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.

Why didn't Paul or other elders just pray over Timothy to be healed of his frequent illnesses? Why didn't God take away the thorn on Paul's side? Why did Pastor David Wilkerson's grand daughter die from cancer so young?

Healing can happen, but greater glory belongs to God if a He chooses not to heal a Christian, but rather strengthens them through the illness or disability.

I'd rather listen to Christians who had to live through their ailments and the survivors who lost family and still remained faithful to the Lord. That in itself is a miracle to be able withstand the hardship and not fall away.

Like Joni Eareckson Tada or Nick Vijicic. Or any Christian who battles cancer or some other painful or terminal disease that God chooses not to heal. Because if you can go through all that hardship and STILL love and serve God, then that's the person I want to learn from.

The sign was that the kingdom of heaven was arrived, in the kingdom of heaven is no sickness.

You have to SHOW that it is not God's will to heal the sick person. Jesus is the expression of God's will for mankind. There is no more perfect more exact expression of God's will. There is no example either in deed or word to show in Christ's ministry where healing was refused.

You can't catch a few gnats and expect they will nourish you up for a day's work. I expect Timothy sinned occasionally was it God's will? why didn't Paul simply wave his hand over the spot and stop Timothy from sinning? Timothy has to work on that disposition in his personality that makes him prone to sin occasionally. We never will be perfect in this age.

God's will is that we be perfect, "be ye perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect" that's God's will. Do we attain to it? We will never attain to perfection if we start to believe that God doesn't will for us to be perfect, bye the bye we will give up altogether.

Gotta aspire to be perfect, get rid of sin, make holiness perfect. Gotta aspire to being in health and prospering even as our souls prosper.

Ask yourself this, why do more souls seems to get saved under some ministries than under others? Africa was in total darkness for CENTURIES, was it not God's will to save Africa earlier? these days we have missionaries from Africa evangelising Europe.

There's a fulness of revelation, a fulness of power that is effectual to accomplish God's work. We have to have that fulness.

P.S. Paul's thorn was nothing to do with sickness.

 

[Nehemiah6]

There is no example either in deed or word to show in Christ's ministry where healing was refused.

This is correct. But as you go further down the road, you see that healing is not exactly guaranteed. There was a definite reason why Christ healed without fail (other than when there was serious unbelief).

 

[Evmur]

This is correct. But as you go further down the road, you see that healing is not exactly guaranteed. There was a definite reason why Christ healed without fail (other than when there was serious unbelief).

you suppose

 

[wolfwint]

AMEN!

AMEN!

Good Question, but I don't rely on what the Church does, because I Walk with God and am Capable of Believing what Scripture instructs us to do and then do it by myself through God.

OK!

True!

if someone can Believe Jesus is God and have never met Him in the Person, they have Faith. But, do they know how to use that Faith, that is the real question?

if they Lack Faith, it's not only because they believe they cannot be healed, but they don't believe it can happen to them.

All throughout the Bible God allowed His Own People to suffer in multiple ways.

haha, I am saying, if you do not believe you can be healed, you won't even try to get healed.
if you believe you can be healed, there's a better Hope that God will heal you.
even if you are not healed, it's all about how you Believed.
Because, if you can believe to be Healed, you have surrendered completely to God and that's what God wants from us all.
So, it's a Win all the way around.

He can heal both Believer and Sinner equally.

We use Jesus Name, if we want the Sick to actually be Healed.

AMEN!

So far I know this discussion was about the healing of children of God.
So you think it is wrong to pray to the father for healing?
How to use faith? What you mean?

 

[wolfwint]

AMEN!

AMEN!

Good Question, but I don't rely on what the Church does, because I Walk with God and am Capable of Believing what Scripture instructs us to do and then do it by myself through God.

OK!

True!

if someone can Believe Jesus is God and have never met Him in the Person, they have Faith. But, do they know how to use that Faith, that is the real question?

if they Lack Faith, it's not only because they believe they cannot be healed, but they don't believe it can happen to them.

All throughout the Bible God allowed His Own People to suffer in multiple ways.

haha, I am saying, if you do not believe you can be healed, you won't even try to get healed.
if you believe you can be healed, there's a better Hope that God will heal you.
even if you are not healed, it's all about how you Believed.
Because, if you can believe to be Healed, you have surrendered completely to God and that's what God wants from us all.
So, it's a Win all the way around.

He can heal both Believer and Sinner equally.

We use Jesus Name, if we want the Sick to actually be Healed.

AMEN!

Well, if you dont rely what the church does, it may be right, if they teaching their own believe system. But James 5 is not church teaching. It is gods word!