Is Salvation instantaneous and permanent?

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Genez said:
Ephesians 2:6-7​
​
And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, ​
in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed ​
in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.​

It is a done deal!

You miserably fail to see what God sees the believer as already being!

We are dumbfounded by how you keep being dumbfounded.

God is not a man that He should react to a believer who fails to be virtuous, like you see God being as if you were God.

You would make a lousy God.
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strange scripture has it as a perpetual state, present tense!

Jn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

or else

1 Timothy 5:12
Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith

more?

Revelation 2:19
I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

thks
 
PaulThomson said:
The Greek word translated in your English Bible version as “everlasting” is aiOnios, which does not mean “everlasting”. It is an adjective formed from aiOn, an eon or an age, and means “having the nature of an age/aeon, i.e. age-long/aeon-long. The Greek word for "without end" is “aperantos”, i.e. a- not, + perantos finished (used in 1Tim. 1:4) and "eis to diEkenes” (continually, lit. into the through-carried/into the continuity) used in Heb. 7:3; 10:1, 12, 14.

So your proof-texts simply don’t say what you want them to say, unless you arbitrarily read your opinion into the biblical text.
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while you ignore scripture!

Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:
 
PaulThomson said:
Do you mean aiOnios at the end of Matt. 25?

Yes, the reward is called aiOnios (age-long), and the punishment is called aiOnios (age-long). I think they are referring to what the sheep and goats end up receiving during the age to come, the 1000 year reign of the saints on the earth. I also think the sheep are unbelievers who survive Christ’s return and who had showed compassion to the persecuted saints; while the goats I would see as the unbelievers who survive Christ’s return who had ignored the plight of the persecuted believers.
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Neat trick... You guys are all the same.
 
Gideon300 said:
John 1:12
1 John 5:12
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1st its always present tense perpetual faith!

Jn 3;16 believes

2nd Jn 1:12 those who accept Christ are not sons of God!

but have the power to become sons of God refering to baptism

Jn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

3rd 1 Jn 5:10-12 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

again always present tense perpetual faith!

1 Timothy 5:12
Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

and eternal life in this sense implies grace not eternal salvation, we can lose grace but no one who has died and received a favorable judgment can lose eternal salvation!

thks
 
faithhopecharity101 said:
strange scripture has it as a perpetual state, present tense!
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Yes! We are now seated with Him in heaven!
God in His omnipotence and omniscience, sees us as already being what He knows we are to become!

For as Eve was in Adam before she was brought out to be revealed?
So, are we!
As the Bride of Christ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, ​
in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed ​
in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2:6-7​

As the woman's body was in Adam?
As it now stands?
We are hidden in Christ!

It takes time.
We need to get used to understanding that reality.
When we are resurrected and in Heaven it will seem supernaturally normal to us.
 
faithhopecharity101 said:
2nd Jn 1:12 those who accept Christ are not sons of God!

but have the power to become sons of God refering to baptism.
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It refers to believers who learn how to remain walking in the filling of the Spirit!
​
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:14​

We remain walking in the Spirit through our utilization of 1 John 1:9.
​
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins ​
and purify us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9​



.....
 
Genez said:
Yes! We are now seated with Him in heaven!
God in His omnipotence and omniscience, sees us as already being what He knows we are to become!

For as Eve was in Adam before she was brought out to be revealed?
So, are we!
As the Bride of Christ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, ​
in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed ​
in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2:6-7​

As the woman's body was in Adam?
As it now stands?
We are hidden in Christ!

It takes time.
We need to get used to understanding that reality.
When we are resurrected and in Heaven it will seem supernaturally normal to us.
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potentially but we can still be eternally lost!

would you then that Mary is our spiritual mother who gave birth to us?

Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:30
But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

thks
 
Genez said:
He ignores a lot.
Especially, the command to test the spirits.

That is why we must work out our salvation in fear and trembling.
To not have to do so would mean we are naive and gullible.
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truth is revealed by Christ and commanded to be taught by His apostolic church! mt 28:19


dogma
247. The souls of the just which in the moment of death are free from all guilt of sin and punishment for sin, enter into Heaven.
248. The bliss of heaven lasts for all eternity.

250. The souls of those who die in the condition of personal grievous sin enter Hell.
251. The punishment of Hell lasts for all eternity.

thks
 
Genez said:
It refers to believers who learn how to remain walking in the filling of the Spirit!
​
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:14​

We remain walking in the Spirit through our utilization of 1 John 1:9.
​
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins ​
and purify us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9​



.....
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walking in the spirit fulfilling the law of the spirit? thats works ain't it?

after we receive the grace of justification in baptism Jn 3:5
water & the spirit

drink the spirit? in baptism 1 cor 12:13

put on Christ? in baptism gal 3:27

thks
 
faithhopecharity101 said:
walking in the spirit fulfilling the law of the spirit? thats works ain't it?
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Not your own works.....

For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, ​
which God prepared in advance for us to do. Ephesians 2:10​
​
We do not do works for salvation. We are not saved by works.
We are to do works as a result of having salvation that is supposed to make us spiritually alive.

Indoctrinated Catholics have no real clue as to how that works.
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​
......​
 
Gideon300 said:
You said, "The old nature is enabled to repent and cooperate with God until it becomes completely corrupt."

That makes no sense to me.
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Okay, what about: "Unless the old nature becomes completely corrupt, God enables sinners to repent and seek salvation."
 
PaulThomson said:
That is not scripture. That is mediaeval theological eisegesis written into an imperfect, somewhat flawed human attempt to translate the scriptures into English. The scriptures are communicated by God in Hebrew, Greek and Chaldee.
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Documentation, please?

And, show us your translation as you see it to be, please.
You keep telling us what things can not mean. But keep failing to show us the way it should mean.
 
Genez said:
Documentation, please?

And, show us your translation as you see it to be, please.
You keep telling us what things can not mean. But keep failing to show us the way it should mean.
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You don’t seem to be paying any attention to the content of my posts. I have already explained what aiOn and aiOnios mean: aeon and aeonou, age and age-long. I have not said they cannot refer to an endless age, but that is not their common meaning in Greek. Psalms mentions the everlasting hills, using aiOnios in the LXX. Are the hills everlasting? Or are they age-lasting?
 
PaulThomson said:
You don’t seem to be paying any attention to the content of my posts. I have already explained what aiOn and aiOnios mean: aeon and aeonou, age and age-long. I have not said they cannot refer to an endless age, but that is not their common meaning in Greek. Psalms mentions the everlasting hills, using aiOnios in the LXX. Are the hills everlasting? Or are they age-lasting?
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I want to see the translation written out.

Let's see what it looks like when you get it your way.

To see how logical it is.
 
PaulThomson said:
You don’t seem to be paying any attention to the content of my posts. I have already explained what aiOn and aiOnios mean: aeon and aeonou, age and age-long. I have not said they cannot refer to an endless age, but that is not their common meaning in Greek. Psalms mentions the everlasting hills, using aiOnios in the LXX. Are the hills everlasting? Or are they age-lasting?
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The word is used in Rom. 16:26 of God.

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment ​
of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:​
​


Question: Does the word of God really mean “eternal” or “everlasting” in Matt. 25:46? or only “age-lasting?”​
T. H. T, ​
Answer: The word is used in Rom. 16:26 of God, in Heb. 9:14 of the Spirit, ​
and in 1 John 1:2 of that life which Christ was and is. Are They merely age-lasting? ​
In 2 Cor. 4:18 the same is contrasted with “temporal,” instead of being similar in force, ​
as these false teachers aver. Nay, the verse itself refutes their desire; for even they own ​
that the life of the saints is “everlasting,” and the same word in the same sentence is ​
applied to the punishment of the wicked. Hebrew, Greek, English, or any other tongue, ​
makes no difference. The N. T. differs from the Old in the utmost clearness as to this, ​
now that Christ is come; as the O. T. had dwelt chiefly on the present government of God, ​
while pointing here and there to the eternal things which are now unveiled under the gospel.​
​


 
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