Is the Devil bound right now...?

[valiant]

Hi wolfwint,

You are correct! The scripture in Rev.20:1-3 that Satan is literally bound and that under the earth in the Abyss.

The Bible does not say that the Abyss Satan is in is under the earth. And the idea that someone as powerful as Satan who is a great spirit being could be literally held under the earth (in Australia possibly, or is he in the coal mines?) is ABSURD.

You have to remember that you are dealing with an Amillennialist and therefore, they have slapped on an allegorical/spiritual interpretation to these events in order to defend their positions.

why do you have to lie so blatantly? Is your position so weak? Yes I guess it is. Our interpretation is quite literal. And we don't invent an earthly reign that Scripture knows nothing about. We take it to mean what it SAYS.

The scripture never says that Satan was "bound" at the cross,

It says he was bound BEFORE the cross (Matt 12.28-29 which you always conveniently ignore because you have no answer to it)

The scripture above says nothing about Satan being bound

.
I have shown you constantly that you are WRONG - Mstt 12.28-29

He currently has the same power to deceive humanity that he's always had. The scripture in Rev.20:1-3 however, speaks of Satan's literal binding under the earth in the Abyss where he will have no access at all to the surface of the earth which will keep him from having any exposure to the inhabitants of the earth during the thousand year reign of Christ.

now where does it say all that?

"We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them. We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

one of your usual mistranslations to suit your purpose. It says NOTHING about being under control. .It says they 'lie under the evil one' (or lie under evil). If it refers to Satan it says they are asleep not controlled.

 

[james57]

For we wanted to come to you-certainly I Paul did, again and again- but satan stopped us
1Thes 2:18

I'm struggling to take this thread seriously, really struggling.

Anyway, back to the greek I guess, or some other translation that will keep the resistance going!

 

[Bowman]

For we wanted to come to you-certainly I Paul did, again and again- but satan stopped us
1Thes 2:18

I'm struggling to take this thread seriously, really struggling.

Anyway, back to the greek I guess, or some other translation that will keep the resistance going!

Adding context…

For, brothers, you became imitators of the assemblies of God being in Judea in Christ Jesus, because you also suffered these things by your own fellow countrymen, as they did also by the Jews, who both killed the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, also having driven us out, and not pleasing God, and being contrary to all men, hindering us from speaking to the nations in order that they be saved, to the filling up of their sins always. But the wrath to the end is come on them. But, brothers, we being taken away from you for an hour's time, in presence, not in heart, we were much more eager with much desire to see your face. Because of this, we desired to come to you, truly I, Paul, both once and twice; but Satan hindered us.(1 Thes 2.14 – 18)


As we can see by adding context, this ‘hindering’ is applied to what the Jews (plural) did in obstructing the spread of the Gospel.

Obviously, since Satan cannot possess more than one person at a time, then this can only apply to the work of his demons, and not himself, as he is bound during this time.

 

[ukok102nak]

:smoke: whoever says satan is already bound by jesus
when from the wriiten scriptures is it say that satan will be bound an angel
then it makes no meaning to all for those people who down grading
our lord jesus christ because if already bound satan now then
that angel from revalation will also bound satan it would put unto something that
our lord jesus christ is an angel :rofl:

: : hope someone would notice this

God bless us all always


:ty:

 

[Bowman]

:smoke: whoever says satan is already bound by jesus
when from the wriiten scriptures is it say that satan will be bound an angel
then it makes no meaning to all for those people who down grading
our lord jesus christ because if already bound satan now then
that angel from revalation will also bound satan it would put unto something that
our lord jesus christ is an angel :rofl:

: : hope someone would notice this

God bless us all always


:ty:

Only God has the power to cast Satan out of Heaven.

Only God has the power to cast Satan into the abyss.

Therefore, the Messenger mentioned in Rev 20 is God.



btw....

:nyuk: :nyuk: :nyuk:

 

[wolfwint]

If you believe that Satan is bound for exactly 1,000 years...then must also believe that he is released for exactly 60 minutes.

Well, Rev. 17, 12 is not speaking from Satan but from the Beast. And the Beast is not Satan! In Rev. 20, 10 you will read that Satan is thrown in the Fire lake. But the Beast and the wrong prophet were already there. So Satan can not be the Beast!

Well i believe that God createt the world in 6 days and take rest on the seventh day. So why not these kings will given the authority for 1 hour as the most translatet the greek word "hora". "hora" is mostly used for one hour, but is also used for time, late ore short.

How ever i believe that in this way. so long you cant give me better alternatives ore argumments which show me that i am wrong.

 

[wolfwint]

Satan was bound the moment that Jesus said he was bound (Matt 12.28-29). That was well before the cross. It enabled people to be delivered out of Satan's power because Satan's minions had lost their power with his downfall. They were in turmoil. He was further bound at the cross when his power was limited in that he could no longer cause people to fear death (Heb 2.14-15) . He was further bound at the resurrection when his chief minions were led in triumph (and therefore in chains) by the triumph of Jesus (Col 2.13). This was further proof that Satan was bound. He could do nothing to prevent it.



That is partly but not wholly true. He is still free to use what powers are available to him, and Satan has great powers available to him. Thus whilst imprisoned in the Abyss (Rev 9.11),which is a restricted part of the heavenlies, he can still order his minions around. He can make use of spiritual wickedness in the heavenlies (Eph 6.10 ff). He can still use men to walk about seeking whom they may devour (1 Peter 5.8). Notice however the non-mention of him in Rev 13-19. There must be some reason for this. It is that he is bound, even though having wide influence.





LOL you mean he is bound? On that we can agree. He will be restrained until the restraining angel is taken out of the way (2 Thess 2).

Well, than we have different understandings from to be bound. The only scripture which is speaking from Satan will be bound we have in this famous scripture Rev, 20,1-3. You cant convince me. Satan is not bound yet!

 

[gerjozen]

Satan was cast out of heaven to earth right after Jesus was caught up to heaven, and has been deceiving the inhabitants of the earth ever since.

Where in Scripture does it says that Satan was cast out of heaven right after Jesus was caught up to heaven?

 

[Ahwatukee]

Well, than we have different understandings from to be bound. The only scripture which is speaking from Satan will be bound we have in this famous scripture Rev, 20,1-3. You cant convince me. Satan is not bound yet!

Hi wolfwint, Valiant

This is in response to what Valiant said regarding "Thus whilst imprisoned in the Abyss (Rev 9.11),which is a restricted part of the heavenlies, he can still order his minions around." The Abyss is not in the heavenlies, but is located underneath the earth. The Abyss was that same place that those demonic beings collectively called "Legion" begged Jesus not to send them in to. The following verse is proof that the Abyss is shown to be located underneath the earth:

"The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the heaven to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss. And out of the smoke locusts came down on the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth.

As you can see from the scripture above, the star/angel comes from heaven to the earth in order to open the Abyss. If the Abyss was in the heavenlies, then the angel wouldn't need to come down to the earth to open it. Also, the fact that the sun and sky are darkened by the smoke that comes up from opening the Abyss would demonstrate that this will take place on earth. And lastly, after opening the Abyss, scripture states that the locusts come out of the smoke that is billowing up out of the Abyss and they land down upon the earth. All of this demonstrates that the shaft to the Abyss is an opening within the earth. Another proof demonstrating that the Abyss is under the earth can be found in the following verses:

"Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them"

"The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction."

Since the angel came down from heaven and is on the earth and these demonic beings are coming up out of the Abyss, then it cannot be located in the heavenlies, as Valiant has proclaimed, but is located underneath the earth.

 

[Cassian]

I see the sola scripturists are still going round and round. They have been doing that for 500 years and will continue to make that endless circle, each throwing scripture around, yet in the end it ends up being one man's opinion against the other. This is why it has always been a circle of arguments because there is no authority, only each infallible interpreter.

You can continue to argue, but only two people have it half right, at least based on scripture. Per the poll there are 78 people who do not understand scripture and why Christ came. Per scripture the binding of Satan has absolutely nothing to do with the false premillennial theory, and it also has nothing to do with his activity. It has to do with his power.

But carry on.......

 

[wolfwint]

I see the sola scripturists are still going round and round. They have been doing that for 500 years and will continue to make that endless circle, each throwing scripture around, yet in the end it ends up being one man's opinion against the other. This is why it has always been a circle of arguments because there is no authority, only each infallible interpreter.

You can continue to argue, but only two people have it half right, at least based on scripture. Per the poll there are 78 people who do not understand scripture and why Christ came. Per scripture the binding of Satan has absolutely nothing to do with the false premillennial theory, and it also has nothing to do with his activity. It has to do with his power.

But carry on.......[/QUOTE
Seems you are not sola scripturist. What you then believe? I must not be a premill to believe what god has written down. No, we must not argue. And also we must not try to convince each other.
What was the purpose of the poll? To answer an question? Ore to show who is wright ore wrong?
Our understanding of the scripture is different because we are still limitet human beeings and because we are using different hermeneutic and exegetic tools. But this i mentioned several times. We must not know all what God reveals. But what is important for us he revealed clear. He wrote the bibel for to be understandable for all and not only for an elite class.

 

[james57]

I . But what is important for us he revealed clear. He wrote the bibel for to be understandable for all and not only for an elite class.

Absolutely:

[SUP] [/SUP]Do not deceive yourselves. If any of you think you are wise by the standards of this age, you should become ‘fools’ so that you may become wise. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: ‘He catches the wise in their craftiness’[SUP][a][/SUP]; [SUP]20 [/SUP]and again, ‘The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.’[SUP][ 1Cor3:18-20



[/SUP]Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? [SUP]21 [/SUP]For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, [SUP]23 [/SUP]but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling-block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, [SUP]24 [/SUP]but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. [SUP]25 [/SUP]For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.[SUP]26[/SUP]Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. [SUP]27 [/SUP]But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. [SUP]28 [/SUP]God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things – and the things that are not – to nullify the things that are, [SUP]29 [/SUP]so that no one may boast before him. [SUP]30 [/SUP]It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God – that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Therefore, as it is written: ‘Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord 1Cor1:20-31

 

[Cassian]

wolfwint,

Seems you are not sola scripturist. What you then believe?

I believe what the Bible, which was born out of Holy Tradition, has always meant from the beginning.

I must not be a premill to believe what god has written down. No, we must not argue. And also we must not try to convince each other.
What was the purpose of the poll? To answer an question? Ore to show who is wright ore wrong?

I can't answer for the OP's purpose, but the correct understanding of the Bible should be paramount.

Our understanding of the scripture is different because we are still limitet human beeings and because we are using different hermeneutic and exegetic tools.

Which has nothing to do with understanding scripture. God, through the Holy Spirit entrusted the whole of His revelation to the Apostles. They gave it to the early Church, the Church Christ established to which He entrusted His revelation for man. That revelation has been preserved within His Body by the Holy Spirit, as He promised, for 2000 years.

But this i mentioned several times. We must not know all what God reveals. But what is important for us he revealed clear. He wrote the bibel for to be understandable for all and not only for an elite class.

A very naive and ignorant statement based on the history of sola scriptura in the last 500 years. Obviously, it is NOT understandable for all since every man developes his own theories of salvation, thus the massive confusion, chaos, and division within the sola scriptura melieu. NO where in scripture does it ever say that the Bible is for and given to individual men.

 

[ukok102nak]

Only God has the power to cast Satan out of Heaven.

Only God has the power to cast Satan into the abyss.

Therefore, the Messenger mentioned in Rev 20 is God.



btw....

:nyuk: :nyuk: :nyuk:

:nyuk: nyuk: btw . . .. also

:rofl: this interpretation of yours
shows how much you really love to
twist the words of god in the written scriptures tsk tsk tsk

hope you change for its not to late
for you my brother to repent and redstablish your self studies
regarding the written scriptures and may god help us to convince you

God bless us all allways


:ty:

 

[Ahwatukee]

:nyuk: nyuk: btw . . .. also

:rofl: this interpretation of yours
shows how much you really love to
twist the words of god in the written scriptures tsk tsk tsk

hope you change for its not to late
for you my brother to repent and redstablish your self studies
regarding the written scriptures and may god help us to convince you

God bless us all allways


:ty:

Wow ukok, that is amazing! Bowman says that only God can cast Satan out of heaven and yet Rev.12:7-8 shows Michael and his angels casting Satan and his angels out of heaven. So much for that claim. Obviously there are angels who are powerful enough to overpower Satan and his.

 

[ukok102nak]

:smoke: please
:read:
Hebrews 9:14how much more shall the blood of the Messiah, who through the everlasting Spirit offered Himself unblemished to Elohim, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living Elohim?

Hebrews 10:29
By how much worse onesh do you think the one will be considered worthy who trampled on the Ben HaElohim and also treated as mechallel kodesh (profane) the Dahm HaBrit which set him apart mekudash and also committed Chillul Hashem gidduf against the Ruach Hakodesh of Hashem's chesed?
30 For we have da'as of the One who said, LI NAKAM V'SHILEM ("Vengeance is mine and I will repay" [Devarim 32:35] and again YADIN HASHEM AMMO ("The L-rd will judge his people" Devarim 32:36).
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Elohim Chayyim.

for someone who thought that those angels were also a god
†: like the ancient people thoughts it was
thats why many of them were been decieved by this so could god but actually
an angel or much worst
:read:
2 Corinthians 11:14
And no wonder! For even Hasatan transforms himself into a malach of ohr (light);
15 It is no big megillah, therefore, if also Hasatan's ministers transform themselves as ministers of Tzedek [DANIEL 9:25]. Their end will be according to their ma'asim.

: : we dont want your to be damn my brother
so please take our concern for the salvation of your soul

:ty:


God bless us all always

 

[ukok102nak]

:smoke: actually my brother Ahwatukee
what our brother bowman trying to say is those angels from the
past where also been mistaken as gods and that are true
but pointing unto something that
our lord jesus christ
is been down graded unto the likes of angels
we will not allowed it to happen for
without god's approaval there is no way that a
an angel could battle satan
:read:
Jude 9
By contrast, Micha'el the Sar haMalachim (Dan.10:13), when he took issue with haSatan and disputed about the geviyat Moshe Rabbeinu (corpse of Moses), did not presume to pronounce a slanderous judgment [against haSatan], but said, "May Hashem rebuke you!"

God bless us all always


:ty:

Wow ukok, that is amazing! Bowman says that only God can cast Satan out of heaven and yet Rev.12:7-8 shows Michael and his angels casting Satan and his angels out of heaven. So much for that claim. Obviously there are angels who are powerful enough to overpower Satan and his.

 

[Bowman]

Wow ukok, that is amazing! Bowman says that only God can cast Satan out of heaven and yet Rev.12:7-8 shows Michael and his angels casting Satan and his angels out of heaven. So much for that claim. Obviously there are angels who are powerful enough to overpower Satan and his.

And war occurred in Heaven, Michael and his angels making war against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels made war, but they did not have strength, nor yet was place found for them in Heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, the old serpent being called devil, and, Satan; he deceiving the whole habitable world, was cast out onto the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.And I heard a great voice saying in Heaven, Now has come the salvation and power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ, because the accuser of our brothers is thrown down, the one accusing them before our God day and night.(Rev 12.7 - 10)


A simple reading of this passage from Rev 12 clearly informs the reader that the war in Heaven occurred between Michael and his angels & Satan and his angels – but, it was Jesus (God) that cast Satan from Heaven.

What is it with you people constantly attempting to diminish Jesus' deity?

Pathetic.

 

[valiant]

Well, than we have different understandings from to be bound. The only scripture which is speaking from Satan will be bound we have in this famous scripture Rev, 20,1-3. You cant convince me. Satan is not bound yet!

If Satan was not bound the earth would have been overrun by evil spirits long ago, even if it had not been wholly destroyed.

 

[valiant]

NO where in scripture does it ever say that the Bible is for and given to individual men.

well it is clear in my Scriptures. Timothy had known the sacred writings which were able to make HIM wise unto salvation from childhood.

And the man of God has to use the Scriptures for teaching, reproof, correction and instruction in righteousness. Doesn't that demonstrate that it is for individual men?

No mention of the church or a hierarchy..