Is the Devil bound right now...?

[Bowman]

To answer your question, it is because Satan has yet to be bound Bowman!

I have shown numerous scriptures stating that Satan was already bound, completed action, at The Cross.

I know you abhor looking to the original languages, but that is the only way that people like you can learn...painful as it might be for you...

 

[Dan_473]

Hi Ahwatukee,

...the characteristics during the thousand years such as the lion eating straw like the ox or prey and predator animals and their young lying down together...

I'll confess I don't know much about this idea, but I do remember reading scriptures that sounded like animals going back to the state talked about in gen 1, with humans and animals eating plants.

is it your understanding that this happens during the thousand year reign of Christ? could it be at the "new heavens and new earth" time? I'm asking because I don't know.

 

[Dan_473]

There was for me.

thanks for the response.
what was the difference for you (between the time you thought satan was unbound and now) in how you lived the christian life?

 

[DP]

That verse lacks the Greek article preceding diabolos, so there is no certainty that this refers to the 'The Devil', himself.

Very weak argument, since the 1 Peter 5:8 passage includes Satan's title of "adversary" also in the description with "devil", showing that Peter was referring to Satan himself.

 

[Brainfreeze]

Very weak argument, since the 1 Peter 5:8 passage includes Satan's title of "adversary" also in the description with "devil", showing that Peter was referring to Satan himself.

Yes, this is true .. He does use " your adversary, the devil, and roaring lion " all in the same verse.

 

[DP]

Satan being bound at Jesus' crucifixion...

Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world shall be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all to Myself. But He said this, signifying by what kind of death He was about to die. (John 12.31 - 33)

Many misinterpret what our Lord Jesus meant by that. Notice He did NOT say 'where' Satan would be cast out of.

Most automatically ASSUME the 'world' when our Lord Jesus did not specifically mention the world is where Satan would be cast out of.

Revelation 12:7 forward shows Satan and his angels being cast out of... Heaven... after the war in Heaven between him and the Archangel Michael. We are shown his casting out of Heaven down to this earth, and a huge woe warning is given to those upon the earth. That is where our Lord Jesus was talking about Satan being cast out of, i.e, the heavenly dimension, as the Rev.12:8 verse tells us there was no more any place in heaven found for him.

 

[DP]

Those events occurred BEFORE Jesus' crucifixion.

Show us that the devil possessed someone AFTER the crucifixion...

Only the demons possessed people after the crucifixion.

That too is a very weak argument. Because The Bible is the last witness of Satan de facto doing possession does not prove Satan could no longer do that.

 

[DP]

Those verses below that oldthenew posted ARE very relevant to Satan not being bound after the crucifixion.

None of these verses describes Satan as being unbound at the present time.

If you think that they do, then please provide your exegesis for your position...

Originally Posted by oldthennew
11 COR.4:1-2-3-4.
Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;

But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the Word of God
deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight
of God.

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

In whom the 'god of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the Light of the
glorious gospel of Christ, Who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

That part in bold of 2 Cor.4:4 is most relevant, since Paul is declaring Satan's influence over the minds of those lost he speaks of, and that in the post-crucifixion sense because of "lest the Light of the glorious gospel of Christ, Who is the image of God, should shine unto them."

11COR.2:11.
Lest satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

11COR. 11:14.
And no marvel; for satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
[/quote]

That is definitely relevant to Satan still being unbound, as Paul in 2 Cor.11 was especially giving an end-time warning with that matter in that chapter about the "another Jesus". It's directly related to this by Paul...

2 Thess 2:8-98 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
KJV

That 9th verse is especially pointing, since it is directly referring to the power and working of Satan himself, and that Scripture is an end-time event warning by Apostle Paul.


E:H.6:11.
Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
That Ephesians 6 warning by Paul is definitely given post-crucifixion, so I don't know how anyone could say the devil is bound and not able to work in this world still. Even Revelation reference to the "dragon" for the end is involving Satan's direct influence in this world, since that title "dragon" we are told in Rev.12 is just another one of Satan's titles.

 

[DP]

'Snakes and scorpions' is exactly how the demons are described in Rev 9.

Again and again....ONLY the demons are mentioned because Satan is already bound.

There's more to this matter also.

(And granted that not many are going to understand where you're coming from with the locust army being demons, when most are taught that's a literal military army of some nation or nations on earth today.)

In Rev.9 we are shown it's Satan that is the "angel of the bottomless pit" and is that "king" over the locusts. Satan is the Destroyer, which we are given that title there both in Hebrew and in Greek. In Rev.11, we are shown the beast that ASCENDS out of the bottomless pit will kill God's two witnesses in Jerusalem at the end of this world.

So really, putting together his casting down of Rev.12:7 for the end times, coupled with this info in Rev.9 and 11, we could say Satan has been working from the pit, which in no way implies he is bound in the sense of his power to work being bound. Yet at a certain time for the end, i.e., for the time of "great tribulation" our Lord Jesus forewarned of, that is when Satan will be de facto cast out of Heaven down to this earth, for the end, which again reveals he is not bound per the description in Rev.20 just yet, because that Rev.20 time is not yet.

 

[DP]

In John 12 when our Lord Jesus spoke of the ruler of this world (i.e., Satan) being cast out, there's more info He gave later in the Book of John about that event...

John 14:30
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me.
KJV


That's the another part of His info that goes with what He said back in John 12:31-33. Our Lord Jesus showed that He would leave this world (ascend to The Father after the crucifixion), but the "prince of this world cometh", and has nothing to do with Jesus. So basically, The Lord going away, and Satan coming to earth instead, was His Message there. And He gave that after... the John 12 verse according to John's timeline in The Gospel of John.

 

[Dan_473]

Very weak argument, since the 1 Peter 5:8 passage includes Satan's title of "adversary" also in the description with "devil", showing that Peter was referring to Satan himself.

I didn't notice that until you pointed it out.

sounds like "adversary" here is singular. it all makes sense if Peter is saying "your adversary, diabolos, prowls around..."


if Peter means "one of your adversaries, diabolos, prowls around..."

or "your adversaries, demons, prowl around..."

he probably would've used different construction.



I like to be open to new information, but at this point, based on the context and my limited knowledge of nt greek, I'd have to say that it looks like Peter is talking about the Devil. either that or there's some particularly strong nameless demon that we need to be on the alert for.

 

[DP]

The only reconciliation to the idea of Satan being bound today is that he is only in the pit, but still allowed to work back and forth like he did in OT times Book of Job, able to still enter God's Presence in Heaven and accuse us before God's Throne.

But for the tribulation, Satan will be cast out of Heaven, directly down to this earth, in our dimension, and is the false one which our Lord Jesus and His Apostles warned us about for the end of this world. Many have a hard time believing that being possible, but many don't believe a lot of God's Word as written today either.

 

[Bowman]

thanks for the response.
what was the difference for you (between the time you thought satan was unbound and now) in how you lived the christian life?

I now have a deeper respect and understanding for what Jesus did for me at The Cross.

 

[Bowman]

Very weak argument, since the 1 Peter 5:8 passage includes Satan's title of "adversary" also in the description with "devil", showing that Peter was referring to Satan himself.

Then....you must also note that the Greek term 'antidikos', and its inflections, only occurs five times in the NT....and the four locations outside of 1 Peter 5.8 are each in the context of being judged and thrown into prison....thus, the evidence is strongly in favor of my position that Satan has already been judged and bound

Thanks for adding more weight to my position...

 

[AboundingGrace]

Then....you must also note that the Greek term 'antidikos', and its inflections, only occurs five times in the NT....and the four locations outside of 1 Peter 5.8 are each in the context of being judged and thrown into prison....thus, the evidence is strongly in favor of my position that Satan has already been judged and bound

Thanks for adding more weight to my position...

With respect, if satan were truly bound now, then who is now working in those of disobedience?, and who is it that tempts every Christian or otherwise godly person?, who is it that causes trials and tribulations of this world? Is it really just people with some sort of independent evil streak that cannot be the fault of any devil? And who therefore will have to go to some place other than hell which is for the devil and those who do his bidding?

No, he roams around like a lion still, seeking those whom to catch off guard and be devoured at his will. He still seeks to exalt in our thoughts against the knowledge of God, for which we have the peace of God to calm our hearts and minds in Christ Jesus.

The Messianic kingdom on earth and the devil bound in hell for one thousand years then released again to again deceive the nations has not yet arrived. The eternal ages of satan finally bound forever has not yet arrived.

 

[Dan_473]

I now have a deeper respect and understanding for what Jesus did for me at The Cross.

is it fair to say, then, that this view of satan didn't change your actions very much, but it did change your mental state?


according to your exegesis of the scriptures, can a christian who uses the word "unbound" for the current state of satan have a deep respect and understanding for what Jesus did for us at The Cross?

 

[valiant]

Brain I love and know you love God. Yes Satan is defeated and he cannot harm a christian unless that christian allows him. He is not bound and is the ring leader of demons and fallen angles. He has fought the church and Israel and will continue until Jesus returns. Who is Jesus going to fight? someone who is bound or someone who leads an army?

I like your Obama thing and I hope that satan is unsuccessful in electing his servant Killary.

Jesus said that He had bound Satan (Matt. 12.28-29). Against His claims all yours are folly.

Jesus is not going to 'fight' anyone. He destroys them with the word of His mouth.

 

[valiant]

With respect, if satan were truly bound now, then who is now working in those of disobedience?, and who is it that tempts every Christian or otherwise godly person?, who is it that causes trials and tribulations of this world? Is it really just people with some sort of independent evil streak that cannot be the fault of any devil? And who therefore will have to go to some place other than hell which is for the devil and those who do his bidding?

No, he roams around like a lion still, seeking those whom to catch off guard and be devoured at his will. He still seeks to exalt in our thoughts against the knowledge of God, for which we have the peace of God to calm our hearts and minds in Christ Jesus.

The Messianic kingdom on earth and the devil bound in hell for one thousand years then released again to again deceive the nations has not yet arrived. The eternal ages of satan finally bound forever has not yet arrived.

if satan were not bound (matt 12.28-29) the world would be far worse than it is, and its bad enough now,

 

[Dan_473]

Then....you must also note that the Greek term 'antidikos', and its inflections, only occurs five times in the NT....and the four locations outside of 1 Peter 5.8 are each in the context of being judged and thrown into prison....thus, the evidence is strongly in favor of my position that Satan has already been judged and bound

Thanks for adding more weight to my position...

from what I could find (and I'm open to more info), the four occurences outside of 1 peter do talk about judgement... but it's not the "adversary" who's in danger of being put in prison.

 

[Dan_473]

Jesus said that He had bound Satan (Matt. 12.28-29). Against His claims all yours are folly.

Jesus is not going to 'fight' anyone. He destroys them with the word of His mouth.

one question would be is the "house" refered to in that passage the world, or the individual believer? I agree that satan can be restricted within the life of the believer.