Is The Earth Flat Or Round?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Is The Earth Flat Or Round?


  • Total voters
    103

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,828
1,073
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
Re: If the Sun is 93 millions of miles away, then how are there clouds behind
it?


All clouds are always between the Sun and an observer on the ground.
However, not all clouds are equally dense, viz: the Sun's powerful light can
easily penetrate wispy clouds like nothing is there. Same goes for the Moon.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,828
1,073
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
Re: Lake Tahoe

Lake Tahoe is humped due to the power of the Earth's spherical gravity
keeping the lake's water hugging the ground like a coat of paint. However,
the hump is virtually impossible to detect by folks boating on the lake
because the radius of the hump's curvature is so immense: approx
3,956 miles

I suggest examining the Great Lakes instead of Tahoe because their humps
are noticeable enough that observers can't see beyond to the other side, viz;
some of the Great Lakes exhibit horizons.
_
 
Sep 24, 2022
62
28
18
33
Virginia
Given that the word "firmament" is a transliteration of a Latin word which was translated from a Hebrew word, we should be cautious rather than dogmatic regarding its meaning.

Trace the etymology of the terms and their meanings. You may be surprised at what you find. ;)

I was very surprised when I was challenged with it. That's why I bring it up.

It is Solid, Firm, and supports the waters above and the Sun, Moon and Stars are all placed IN it.
at least according to scripture.


Raqia.png
 
Dec 21, 2020
1,825
474
83
.
A very simple experiment to test the spherical shape of the Earth was
devised centuries years ago by a guy whose name I cannot recall.


Anyway, he set a pole in the ground perfectly vertical at one location, and
then a good number of miles directly south of there, set another pole of
equal height.


Then at high noon, he and some assistants measured the length of each
pole's shadow; and they differed quite a bit. He reasoned that the difference
could only be the result of the Sun's elevation being higher in the sky at one
place and lower in the sky at the other.


Well; it didn't take him long to figure that seeing as how the elevation of a
flat Earth noon Sun would be the same at both locations, then the only sensible
explanation for the difference is curvature.


In point of fact, there are locations on the Earth's surface where the high noon
Sun is directly overhead and poles cast a shadow on their very footing. If overhead
perfect enough, poles cast no shadow.


An alternative to a spherical Earth is one that's sort of like a flapjack bent
around the surface of a rolling pin. Then the Earth would at least be flat on a
line going east to west while curved on a line going north to south. A planet
shaped like that wouldn't be a sphere but its curvature would at least have a
little something to please the ball camp; though not totally to please the disk
camp.
_
The earth is a globe, but the experiment above doesn't prove it. Flat earthers believe the sun is much smaller than it is. Say the 'o' is the sun. I had to put hyphens in front of it to position it. It's directly over the first pole, so that pole would cast no shadow. The second pole would cast a shadow.

---------o


________I___I_____________earth's surface

..just sayin' :)
 
Sep 24, 2022
62
28
18
33
Virginia
What about this one?


check the robe. it is a fisheye Lense and cannot be trusted at face value.
Here is a straight line in red to show you.

fisheye lens picture with Line.jpg

we need to be careful of trickery like this, and thankfully a little basic logic and line drawing can help us. God bless.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,491
13,797
113
I was very surprised when I was challenged with it. That's why I bring it up.

It is Solid, Firm, and supports the waters above and the Sun, Moon and Stars are all placed IN it.
at least according to scripture.


View attachment 245645
Please provide the source by which you claim the ‘firmament’ is solid. If it’s Strong’s as in the image, then you have more homework. Strong’s is not a standard dictionary. It only gives definitions of words as they are used in the KJV. In other words, you’re using circular reasoning.
 

RaceRunner

Well-known member
Oct 13, 2022
1,576
289
83
1669075220857.jpeg

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/55387/55387-h/55387-h.htm#proof20

PROFESSOR PROCTOR’S PROOFS.

“A proof, a proof!” cries Student Brown; says Proctor, “Very well,
If that is all you want, indeed, I’ve plenty I can tell:
But really I have scarcely time, or patience, now, to do it;
You ought to know the earth’s a globe, then, as a globe you’d view it.
I knew it long ago: in truth, ’twas taught me in my cot,
And, then, too old was I to doubt—too young to say ’twas not!”
“And you have never questioned it?” “Why should I, now, friend Brown?
I took it all for granted, just as daddy laid it down.
And as my duty clearly was,—no other way I saw it—
And that’s the reason why, of course, a globe I always draw it.
And so you want a proof! Ah ha: just cross the broad Atlantic,
And then a proof so strong you’ll have, with joy ’twill send you frantic!”
“You mean, that I shall see the ships come round the old earth’s side—
And up—and o’er the ‘watery hill’—as into view they glide!
No, Proctor, no: you say, yourself, the earth so vast in size is,
The surface seems a level one—indeed, to sight, it rises.
And ships, when coming into view, seem ‘bearing down upon us.’
No, Proctor, let us have a proof—no, no, come—mercy on us!”
“Well, Brown, I’ve proofs that serve to show that earth, indeed, a ball ‘tis;
But if you won’t believe them—well, not mine but yours the fault is.
Why, everybody, surely, knows a planet must be round,
And, since the earth a planet is, its shape at once is found.
We know it travels round the sun, a thousand miles a minute,
And, therefore, it must be a globe: a flat earth couldn’t spin it.
We know it on its axis turns with motion unperceived;
And therefore, surely, plain it is, its shape must be believed.
We know its weight put down in tons exactly as we weigh’d it;
And, therefore, what could clearer be, if we ourselves had made it?
We know its age—can figures lie?—its size—its weight—its motion;
And then to say, ‘’tis all my eye,’ shows madness in the notion.
Besides, the other worlds and suns—some cooling down—some hot!—
How can you say, you want a proof, with all these in the pot?
No, Brown: just let us go ahead; don’t interfere at all;
Some other day I’ll come and bring proof that earth’s a ball!”
“No, Proctor, no:” said Mr. Brown; “’tis now too late to try it:—
A hundred proofs are now put down (and you cannot deny it)
That earth is not a globe at all, and does not move through space:
And your philosophy I call a shame and a disgrace.
We have to interfere, and do the best that we are able
To crush your theories and to lay the facts upon the table.
God’s Truth is what the people need, and men will strive to preach it;
And all your efforts are in vain, though you should dare impeach it.
You’ve given half your theory up; the people have to know it:—
You smile, but, then, your book’s enough: for that will plainly show it.
One-half your theory’s gone, and, soon, the other half goes, too:
So, better turn about, at once, and show what you can do.
Own up (as people have to do, when they have been deceived),
And help the searcher after Truth of doubt to be relieved.
‘The only amaranthine flower is virtue;’—don’t forget it—
‘The only lasting treasure, Truth:’—and never strive to let it.”
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,491
13,797
113
Which means it has reliable definitions for words found in the KJV within the context of the KJV. ;)
Yes. There is only one problem with that: it offers nothing in the way of objective meaning of words not previously found in English. I don't know offhand whether "firmament" existed outside of English translations of Scripture. If not, we cannot take Strong's as being objective. Or to put it more succinctly, "firmament" means whatever the translators thought it meant.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,835
4,321
113
mywebsite.us
Yes. There is only one problem with that: it offers nothing in the way of objective meaning of words not previously found in English. I don't know offhand whether "firmament" existed outside of English translations of Scripture. If not, we cannot take Strong's as being objective. Or to put it more succinctly, "firmament" means whatever the translators thought it meant.
No problem at all.

Strong's Concordance was first published in 1890.

I have an 1828 English language dictionary - a reprint of a NOAH WEBSTER original published in 1828.

The word 'firmament' is defined in it - based on the language-of-the-day back when it was published.

It defines it in terms of it being an 'expanse' rather than being something 'solid'.

An excerpt:

"The region of the air; the sky or heavens. In scripture, the word denotes an expanse, a wide extent; for such is the signification of the Hebrew word, coinciding with regio, region, and reach. The original therefore does not convey the sense of solidity, but of stretching, extension;"

('NOAH WEBSTER'S FIRST EDITION OF AN AMERICAN DICTIONARY OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE')
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,828
1,073
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.

The distance in miles to the horizon of an ocean or a lake can be easily
calculated by 1.22459 x the square root of the distance from your eyes to
the ground in feet.

For example, if, while sitting in a row boat, your eyes are 4 feet above the
water then:

Multiply the square root of 4 by 1.22459 and you'll get 2.5 miles, which
means that were you to row out to the middle of the 22 mile length of Lake
Tahoe and look north towards Kings Beach, you'll likely see land but you
won't see the shore because it will be below your horizon.
_
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,491
13,797
113
No problem at all.

Strong's Concordance was first published in 1890.

I have an 1828 English language dictionary - a reprint of a NOAH WEBSTER original published in 1828.

The word 'firmament' is defined in it - based on the language-of-the-day back when it was published.

It defines it in terms of it being an 'expanse' rather than being something 'solid'.

An excerpt:

"The region of the air; the sky or heavens. In scripture, the word denotes an expanse, a wide extent; for such is the signification of the Hebrew word, coinciding with regio, region, and reach. The original therefore does not convey the sense of solidity, but of stretching, extension;"

('NOAH WEBSTER'S FIRST EDITION OF AN AMERICAN DICTIONARY OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE')
So... what do you do with that? It undermines your position that the dome is solid.
 
Jun 5, 2020
941
169
43
.



The distance in miles to the horizon of an ocean or a lake can be easily
calculated by 1.22459 x the square root of the distance from your eyes to
the ground in feet.


For example, if, while sitting in a row boat, your eyes are 4 feet above the
water then:


Multiply the square root of 4 by 1.22459 and you'll get 2.5 miles, which
means that were you to row out to the middle of the 22 mile length of Lake
Tahoe and look north towards Kings Beach, you'll likely see land but you
won't see the shore because it will be below your horizon.
_
I assume that you're talking about meters, as very, very few people are 1,5 feet tall. Converting that figure from meters to feet gives 4.92, which is a very, very short distance from eyes to the ground for an adult.

Secondly, you are discussing a person's eyes being 4 feet above the water while sitting -- which is a very tall person. Then you use the square root of 4 -- which just happens to be two! -- times 1.22459 and get 2.5 miles. Are you okay? Because your math sure isn't.
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,828
1,073
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.

The Sun would have to be in extremely close proximity to satisfy the
diagram else too far away and the Sun would appear to be directly over both
poles on a flat Earth. For that very reason a nearby Sun is an essential
element in the flat-earth theory.

* Every spurious theory has at least one Achilles' Heel somewhere in its
structure. I suspect the distance to the Sun is the flat-earth's heel.
_
 

RaceRunner

Well-known member
Oct 13, 2022
1,576
289
83
.



The Sun would have to be in extremely close proximity to satisfy the
diagram else too far away and the Sun would appear to be directly over both
poles on a flat Earth. For that very reason a nearby Sun is an essential
element in the flat-earth theory.


* Every spurious theory has at least one Achilles' Heel somewhere in its
structure. I suspect the distance to the Sun is the flat-earth's heel.
_
1669139626912.jpeg
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,828
1,073
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
Re: If the Sun is 93 millions of miles away, then how are there clouds behind
it?


All clouds are always between the Sun and an observer on the ground.
However, not all clouds are equally dense, viz: the Sun's powerful light can
easily penetrate wispy clouds like nothing is there. Same goes for the Moon.
_
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,835
4,321
113
mywebsite.us
So... what do you do with that? It undermines your position that the dome is solid.
Nope - not at all...

It is very highly likely that the dome is solid.

The 'firmament' is not the dome; rather, it is the 'expanse' under the dome.