Is the Great Commission irrelevant for the church now?
- Thread starter Guojing
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
The command to go to preach the Gospel is to every creature(Mark 16). to every nation (Mat. 28) or anywhere where Christ was not named (Romans 15:20) , even to the regions beyond (2 Cor. 10:16) or to the uttermost part of the earth (Acts 1:8). This gospel is always to the Jew first and then to the Gentiles (Romans 1:16). This going out of the early beleivers is to witness for Christ and to baptized every believers, then be taught with the sound doctrine. For Paul this teaching ministry was seen in his entire missionary journey.
-
1
- Show all
You are not answering my question.
Why do you think Peter was so reluctant to go to Cornelius house in Acts 10, if he truly understood that the GC was meant for the Gentiles at the same time as to the Jews?
My answer is that Peter understood the OT prophecy, that the Jews as a nation must accept Christ as their Messiah first, before the Gentiles could be reached.
Why do you think Peter was so reluctant to go to Cornelius house in Acts 10, if he truly understood that the GC was meant for the Gentiles at the same time as to the Jews?
My answer is that Peter understood the OT prophecy, that the Jews as a nation must accept Christ as their Messiah first, before the Gentiles could be reached.
So you do agree that the 12 understood that the GC was meant for the Jews first, then to the Gentiles.
The fundamental question I was asking in this thread is, why do the Gentile Church think that the GC is meant for them, if the Jews as a nation, have already rejected Christ?
Surely if they take the GC seriously, they should start, as the 12 did, with Jerusalem (Luke's version of the GC). But that option is no longer open.
The fundamental question I was asking in this thread is, why do the Gentile Church think that the GC is meant for them, if the Jews as a nation, have already rejected Christ?
Surely if they take the GC seriously, they should start, as the 12 did, with Jerusalem (Luke's version of the GC). But that option is no longer open.
Nonsense. Peter was hesitant for now obsolete (and likely improper and unscriptural) beliefs about Gentiles. God dispelled Peter's trepidations in no uncertain terms. Doubtless Jesus made things quite clear, but Peter was a tough nut to crack. Peter had trouble with Gentiles much later in a very similar way, triggering the excoriating rebuke by Paul.
-
1
- Show all
You are anticipating revelation here, you assumed that the 12 apostles have understood Paul's gospel and the mystery that was revealed only to him about Jews and Gentiles being equal in the church in Ephesians 2-3.
Put yourself in the shoes of Peter during the time of Acts. When he was learning from Jesus, this was what Jesus commanded
Matt 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Then before Jesus ascended to heaven, he gave this instructions to him Matt 28
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
One of the commandments taught by Jesus is "Go not into the Gentiles". Put yourself in Peter's shoes, do you think he understood Jesus's instructions wrongly?
Put yourself in the shoes of Peter during the time of Acts. When he was learning from Jesus, this was what Jesus commanded
Matt 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Then before Jesus ascended to heaven, he gave this instructions to him Matt 28
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
One of the commandments taught by Jesus is "Go not into the Gentiles". Put yourself in Peter's shoes, do you think he understood Jesus's instructions wrongly?
What Jesus commanded before His resurrection was clearly different from what He commanded AFTER His resurrection. But Peter had a hard time catching up.
Until His crucifixion, Christ was under the Law, and He limited His ministry primarily to Israel (not exclusively). But when He said "Go therefore and teach ALL NATIONS..." He totally removed that limitation. Indeed He insisted that the Gospel be preached progressively, starting at Jerusalem and then going worldwide "unto the uttermost parts of the earth".
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. (Acts 1:8)
As we know Peter started in Jerusalem but shortly thereafter He went to Caesarea (with much protestation), and saw Gentiles saved and receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit. We are not given the details about where the other apostles went, but there are various traditions, and we know that Thomas went to India and was martyred after he established churches.
Until His crucifixion, Christ was under the Law, and He limited His ministry primarily to Israel (not exclusively). But when He said "Go therefore and teach ALL NATIONS..." He totally removed that limitation. Indeed He insisted that the Gospel be preached progressively, starting at Jerusalem and then going worldwide "unto the uttermost parts of the earth".
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. (Acts 1:8)
As we know Peter started in Jerusalem but shortly thereafter He went to Caesarea (with much protestation), and saw Gentiles saved and receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit. We are not given the details about where the other apostles went, but there are various traditions, and we know that Thomas went to India and was martyred after he established churches.
Are all aware Jesus said, Himself, I have two flocks? He mentioned He would teach His own people first and later He would send His disciples to the Gntiles. Peter understood after his vision. As for Pau admonishing Peter, if this is so, it was a differetn Peter for Paul's name i not found onthe foundations of our City of Gold. That gold being the faith of the believers.
Jesus saved Paul to specifically send him to the Gentiles. This was mentioned a number of times in Acts.
As for the 12 original apostles, here is what they concluded after the Jerusalem Council event, Galatians 2
9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
The 12, together with James, agreed that they will confine their ministry only to the Jews.
As for the 12 original apostles, here is what they concluded after the Jerusalem Council event, Galatians 2
9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
The 12, together with James, agreed that they will confine their ministry only to the Jews.
If you read Ephesians 3, Paul was given lots of revelations from the ascended Christ Jesus, that no OT prophet, nor the 12 apostles, ever received. It was all hidden in God.
For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Do you understand Paul has testified of himself throughout the Epistles. Paul made this statement and declasration. Aside from the "men of renown" foretold in Zechariah no other is mentioned in prophfesy other than John the Baptist, the last of the ot PROPHETS Also the Two Witnesses to come and of coure the antichirst are profesied.
Paul has been given an enormous role in the followers of Jesus Christ however many forget that Paul teaches there is NO OTHER Gospel other than that of our Lord, and P=aul also teaches, let anyone be cursed who says he is teaching another gospel for there is no other.
Never affront Pau by inferring there is a gospel of Paul other than the one taught by Jesus Christ to all men. This is a dnagerous view.
Paul has been given an enormous role in the followers of Jesus Christ however many forget that Paul teaches there is NO OTHER Gospel other than that of our Lord, and P=aul also teaches, let anyone be cursed who says he is teaching another gospel for there is no other.
Never affront Pau by inferring there is a gospel of Paul other than the one taught by Jesus Christ to all men. This is a dnagerous view.
If you don't accept the Ephesians 3 claim by Paul, how about the following 3 different passages that Paul said specifically "My Gospel"? How come none of the 12 could ever pronounce the same?
“In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.” – Romans 2:16
“Now to him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began…” – Romans 16:25
“Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:” – 2 Timothy 2:8
I didn't "affront" Paul, he did it for himself
Yes, he pronounced a double curse on those who preach any other gospel other than the gospel Christ Jesus gave to him directly.
Galatians 1
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
“In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.” – Romans 2:16
“Now to him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began…” – Romans 16:25
“Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:” – 2 Timothy 2:8
I didn't "affront" Paul, he did it for himself
Yes, he pronounced a double curse on those who preach any other gospel other than the gospel Christ Jesus gave to him directly. Galatians 1
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
One point I would like to raise where the Bible translates the Greek into this term "all nations". May I suggest that the meaning is not exactly the same when we understood it in English.
Let me give you an example from Luke 2:1 KJV
And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.
Young's version goes
And it came to pass in those days, there went forth a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world be enrolled
I am presenting a view that when we read "all the nations" in the Matthew version of the GC, it may not mean exactly what we think it means in the English. It could point towards "all the known Jews in the Roman Empire".
Of course, you could be correct, I am not denying that possibility. But you are saying Peter is misled, and I am saying there could be another possible explanation, that every Jew at that time have a different idea from you about what preaching to "all nations" really meant.
Let me give you an example from Luke 2:1 KJV
And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.
Young's version goes
And it came to pass in those days, there went forth a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world be enrolled
I am presenting a view that when we read "all the nations" in the Matthew version of the GC, it may not mean exactly what we think it means in the English. It could point towards "all the known Jews in the Roman Empire".
Of course, you could be correct, I am not denying that possibility. But you are saying Peter is misled, and I am saying there could be another possible explanation, that every Jew at that time have a different idea from you about what preaching to "all nations" really meant.
Jesus Christ is the mystery. He was hid from the world, the world knew Him not. Yet all was created through Him. Jesus Christ is the mystery revealed to Paul. It was on the road to Damascus that he encountered Christ.
Grace is by Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the grace of God. Preaching about the grace of God means to preach about Jesus Christ. Paul was to spread the gospel to gentiles. Jesus spoke in parables about the feast that the King prepared and His own rejected His invitation (the jews) and so all the poor and anyone who would come (gentiles) would be welcome to partake of the banquet. And those who rejected the invitation were to have no part.
Maybe you should read the true Gospel. It applies to all believers. Anyone who has ears to hear. Because the jews rejected this gift of salvation, all parts of the world can now partake in the Kingdom of God. Paul was the least of these yet he was greatly used to spread the truth. Which is Jesus Christ. Any other gospel let be accursed. We are neither jew nor gentile in the Kingdom of God. We are all children of God. We are included as descendants of Abraham who recieve the promise given to Abraham.
So the Gospel is written to all who have ears to hear. Jesus Christ is Lord. That is our master. His Words trump anybody else. Including myself.
Grace is by Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the grace of God. Preaching about the grace of God means to preach about Jesus Christ. Paul was to spread the gospel to gentiles. Jesus spoke in parables about the feast that the King prepared and His own rejected His invitation (the jews) and so all the poor and anyone who would come (gentiles) would be welcome to partake of the banquet. And those who rejected the invitation were to have no part.
Maybe you should read the true Gospel. It applies to all believers. Anyone who has ears to hear. Because the jews rejected this gift of salvation, all parts of the world can now partake in the Kingdom of God. Paul was the least of these yet he was greatly used to spread the truth. Which is Jesus Christ. Any other gospel let be accursed. We are neither jew nor gentile in the Kingdom of God. We are all children of God. We are included as descendants of Abraham who recieve the promise given to Abraham.
So the Gospel is written to all who have ears to hear. Jesus Christ is Lord. That is our master. His Words trump anybody else. Including myself.
-
1
- Show all
Verse 6 made it clear what exactly the mystery is
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Jews and Gentiles equal in the eyes of God, that is something that none of the OT prophets, and the 12 apostles were told.
If you think Jesus Christ is the mystery that Paul was referring to, then Isaiah the prophet was made aware of him in Isaiah 53.
Yet, if you search the book of Isaiah for example, no revelation was given to him about the Jews and Gentiles equality. Instead we get passages like in chapter 61
5 Foreigners will be your servants. They will feed your flocks and plow your fields and tend your vineyards. 6 You will be called priests of the Lord, ministers of our God. You will feed on the treasures of the nations and boast in their riches. 7 Instead of shame and dishonor, you will enjoy a double share of honor. You will possess a double portion of prosperity in your land, and everlasting joy will be yours.
In other words, the prophet Isaiah in Chapter 61, verses 5-7, saw Israel in the kingdom ruling and Gentiles serving Israel. The Jews in the Old Testament had never imagined the possibility of equality with Gentiles. The prophet Isaiah never perceived that one body concept that Paul revealed in Ephesians 2-3. Isaiah, like all the Jews then, always saw Jews as citizens of God’s kingdom on Earth, and Gentiles in the same kingdom, but in servitude to the Jews.
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Jews and Gentiles equal in the eyes of God, that is something that none of the OT prophets, and the 12 apostles were told.
If you think Jesus Christ is the mystery that Paul was referring to, then Isaiah the prophet was made aware of him in Isaiah 53.
Yet, if you search the book of Isaiah for example, no revelation was given to him about the Jews and Gentiles equality. Instead we get passages like in chapter 61
5 Foreigners will be your servants. They will feed your flocks and plow your fields and tend your vineyards. 6 You will be called priests of the Lord, ministers of our God. You will feed on the treasures of the nations and boast in their riches. 7 Instead of shame and dishonor, you will enjoy a double share of honor. You will possess a double portion of prosperity in your land, and everlasting joy will be yours.
In other words, the prophet Isaiah in Chapter 61, verses 5-7, saw Israel in the kingdom ruling and Gentiles serving Israel. The Jews in the Old Testament had never imagined the possibility of equality with Gentiles. The prophet Isaiah never perceived that one body concept that Paul revealed in Ephesians 2-3. Isaiah, like all the Jews then, always saw Jews as citizens of God’s kingdom on Earth, and Gentiles in the same kingdom, but in servitude to the Jews.
Here is what the Bible says, and because you left out the remainder of the verse do you suppose I am going to answer what you asked? Get further to get the background....
Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
Jesus Christ is the mystery. Ask anyone who wants to know who Jesus is and find out how much of a mystery He is. Muslims believe He is just a prophet, others believe He was just a man, others believe He is God, others believe He is the Son of God who was concieved when the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary.
But Paul tells us the mystery. He was hid in God. Jesus dwelt in the Fathers bosom. Jesus is the Word of God. Who was in the beggining with God and was God. The living Word made manifest. Even the jews did not recognize Him. But Jesus is a part of God. He calls Him His Son. God created everything through His Word Jesus Christ.
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
Jesus Christ is the mystery. Ask anyone who wants to know who Jesus is and find out how much of a mystery He is. Muslims believe He is just a prophet, others believe He was just a man, others believe He is God, others believe He is the Son of God who was concieved when the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary.
But Paul tells us the mystery. He was hid in God. Jesus dwelt in the Fathers bosom. Jesus is the Word of God. Who was in the beggining with God and was God. The living Word made manifest. Even the jews did not recognize Him. But Jesus is a part of God. He calls Him His Son. God created everything through His Word Jesus Christ.
-
1
- Show all