Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult?

[Grandpa]

This a personal attack. "You only said what you said because you don't care about the truth."

How about sticking to the discussion and not make personal attacks when you disagree with a post?

lol. does the truth hurt?

Maybe my questions to him hit too close to home? Especially the part about Christians who don't understand they aren't under the Law. Is that a personal attack?

I suppose if you are easily offended you could see that as an attack. If you are offended at the Liberty that is in Christ and would rather walk in and defend the shadow, I suppose you are going to be offended by me.

Is the Light a personal attack on the Dark? Well I suppose it is...

 

[JaumeJ]

First you are lol'ing again, which is scoffing. This humor in an attempt to fellowship in the Word or Bible discussion, as the Forum title reads, is not welcome among those who take the Word and its study seriously. Laughing out loud, cutsie cartoons and other imagery, are forms of scoffing. If you are not spiritually mature enough to consider your brethren, perhaps you should take some time off the forum to reflect, meditate and study the Word from the beginning to the end. It is good for the soul, and it honors Yahweh.

lol. does the truth hurt?

Maybe my questions to him hit too close to home? Especially the part about Christians who don't understand they aren't under the Law. Is that a personal attack?

I suppose if you are easily offended you could see that as an attack. If you are offended at the Liberty that is in Christ and would rather walk in and defend the shadow, I suppose you are going to be offended by me.

Is the Light a personal attack on the Dark? Well I suppose it is...

 

[Grandpa]

Here is just one of your charges: Your first instinct wasn't to address the points that the poster made. Your first instinct was to defend what you love at all costs. The old jewish way.

I didn't view that as a charge. I viewed it as a fact. A charge would be if I tried to show you what your intent was. I don't really know what your intent is. I was just trying to show you what you did and I asked why you did it. Instead of facing it and directly answering you would rather deflect and play the victim?

I guess I do have an uncanny way of cutting through all the fluff and getting right to the heart of the matter. I guess that is offensive today when everyone else is trying to dance around the issues and not address them.

The person to whom it is intended was content with my reply, also there was a like optioned, maybe more, you may look.

Are you sure?

Another of your leveled charges is by implication I do not know what I am posting when I give you out of the generosity of my heart the meanings of words in Hebrew. Even when I out source the information, your tendency is to deflect and ignore.

I'm not questioning your knowledge. I'm sure you know a bunch of Hebrew. I'm saying that you are mixed up. Judah, and jew, don't mean the same thing as Hallelujah. I still think you are confused between jew and Israelite. But that is spiritually discerned, it seems.

We can disregard all that right now, if you would like, and try to address this one issue;
If we are walking in the Light as He is in the Light, should we try to walk in the shadow at the same time?

 

[Grandpa]

First you are lol'ing again, which is scoffing. This humor in an attempt to fellowship in the Word or Bible discussion, as the Forum title reads, is not welcome among those who take the Word and its study seriously. Laughing out loud, cutsie cartoons and other imagery, are forms of scoffing. If you are not spiritually mature enough to consider your brethren, perhaps you should take some time off the forum to reflect, meditate and study the Word from the beginning to the end. It is good for the soul, and it honors Yahweh.

Oh.. Oh..

Personal attack..

Oh.. Oh..

lol.

The Joy of the Lord is my strength... Even when I'm super-serious...

 

[crossnote]

This is the heart of the matter, the reason the established church is up in arms againsthem. I have incorporated some of these rituals in my worship and my church home is united against it, so is my personal family. I've done a LOT of study and prayer. Here is what I found.

The possible bad, first. If it is used for salvation instead of using Christ, it is a path to death. If it is used as a path to keeping Christ and God a part of every minute of our day to day living, it is a path to more abundant life.

It can be used as a way to judge others. My church is doing that with me. We can't blame the judging on the actions being judged, it is apart from that. If you join a church that celebrates the feasts and you don't want to, you are going to feel left out and they are going to wonder why not join the party. Just like the people judging me in my church, there will be people who sin in that church by judging.

I can't watch people who use these rituals as part of their life because I don't know any, so I got books about it. Almost every life was helped by living this way, it is not a downer in the main but a key to productivity and happiness, but in the same way our church family helps our life. It is Christ and who we are that is the real part of it, we just use the church family to help. If we said we are saved because we go to church it wouldn't be right but that doesn't make going to church wrong. It is the same way with hand washing and prayer when we get up, or any of the rituals.

God says he is going to unite and make Jews and gentiles one. Jews are against it, saying we have a false God, they only know Christ as God tells of Him in the OT. We say all Judaism is a false God in the same way. God is truth.

Well here is my take. God has already united Jew and Gentile as one (as believers) in Him...it is called the One New Man.(please read Eph 2:15)
Creating 'Gentile believer ghettos' or 'Jewish believer ghettos' is not the solution. Since we are One in Christ spiritually, shouldn't we worship as one in Christ corporately? I know Gentile churches have there baggage as well, but don't you think a true working together through the issues that divide is better than 'every man to his ghetto!'?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Well here is my take. God has already united Jew and Gentile as one (as believers) in Him...it is called the One New Man.(please read Eph 2:15)

Yay! somebody finally said it. Also, while we're here, let's not forget Israel and Judah were joined together too... into One New Man. Hooray! Praise GOD!

 

[Shiloah]

lol. does the truth hurt?

Maybe my questions to him hit too close to home? Especially the part about Christians who don't understand they aren't under the Law. Is that a personal attack?

I suppose if you are easily offended you could see that as an attack. If you are offended at the Liberty that is in Christ and would rather walk in and defend the shadow, I suppose you are going to be offended by me.

Is the Light a personal attack on the Dark? Well I suppose it is...

Your personal opinion (or judgement in this case) about a person's motives mean nothing. This is a discussion. You're making personal judgements about someone you don't know from Adam because he disagrees with your stance on some doctrine. Instead of reading his posts and considering them, and replying to the reasoning involved, you attack his motives. You obviously can't even see what you're doing. Why would you offend me? I know you're entirely wrong in what you're saying and doing.

Your attack represents the very darkness you speak of.

 

[RedTent]

Well here is my take. God has already united Jew and Gentile as one (as believers) in Him...it is called the One New Man.(please read Eph 2:15)
Creating 'Gentile believer ghettos' or 'Jewish believer ghettos' is not the solution. Since we are One in Christ spiritually, shouldn't we worship as one in Christ corporately? I know Gentile churches have there baggage as well, but don't you think a true working together through the issues that divide is better than 'every man to his ghetto!'?

Now, I think we are coming to truth! This is God's plan for us, being one man, not Jews and gentiles, etc. That is how God created us, God's plan for us, how God sees us. He used the Jews to teach us about Him, and gave them a special blessing. Like a Father giving one child a job to do and say I'll pay you extra for that job, but the Father sees all his children as His, the same. I don't think God appreciates our saying but Father! look at those Jews who do you wrong, and look how good I am!

It is only man who has separated us. Gentiles go on about how terrible the way God trained them with those terrible rituals. Then the Jews telling the gentiles the way to salvation was through things like what they ate! Then the gentiles telling each other it was all in not eating like God asked those Jews. Then the gentiles getting this all mixed up with the basics like the laws of God that are God's blessings for us. Then the Jews chimed in with how their Christ was the real one, the Messiah to come, and ours was fake, and that REALLY set things off.

After over 2,000 years of this, this movement is the first I have seen that is trying to pull things toward the unity God asks for. Jews are joining and accept Christ as their savior. Gentiles are taking God principles seriously along with Christ.

No wonder the extremes of both sides are upset. This is toward what God asks of us.

 

[RedTent]

Oh.. Oh..

Personal attack..

Oh.. Oh..

lol.

The Joy of the Lord is my strength... Even when I'm super-serious...

Grandpa, pack up your opinions, your grudges against things, your judgments and just give them to God to take care of. If someone needs correcting and straightening out, God will take care of it. If you take it on, God can't reach past these things to love, nurture and care for you. God will judge, you don't have to. God even does the repaying for their errors. God does the work, so relax.

 

[crossnote]

Now, I think we are coming to truth! This is God's plan for us, being one man, not Jews and gentiles, etc. That is how God created us, God's plan for us, how God sees us. He used the Jews to teach us about Him, and gave them a special blessing. Like a Father giving one child a job to do and say I'll pay you extra for that job, but the Father sees all his children as His, the same. I don't think God appreciates our saying but Father! look at those Jews who do you wrong, and look how good I am!

It is only man who has separated us. Gentiles go on about how terrible the way God trained them with those terrible rituals. Then the Jews telling the gentiles the way to salvation was through things like what they ate! Then the gentiles telling each other it was all in not eating like God asked those Jews. Then the gentiles getting this all mixed up with the basics like the laws of God that are God's blessings for us. Then the Jews chimed in with how their Christ was the real one, the Messiah to come, and ours was fake, and that REALLY set things off.

After over 2,000 years of this, this movement is the first I have seen that is trying to pull things toward the unity God asks for. Jews are joining and accept Christ as their savior. Gentiles are taking God principles seriously along with Christ.

No wonder the extremes of both sides are upset. This is toward what God asks of us.

Not only man has separated between Jew and Gentile but also the Law of commandments was the reason for the enmity
...
Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the ''law of commandments'' contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God says he is going to unite and make Jews and gentiles one. Jews are against it, saying we have a false God, they only know Christ as God tells of Him in the OT. We say all Judaism is a false God in the same way. God is truth.

Just a note. God already did this. He did it the moment he said "it is finished" We are all united under the abrahamic covenant.

 

[just-me]

Just a note. God already did this. He did it the moment he said "it is finished" We are all united under the abrahamic covenant.

Romans 11:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Romans 11:7-11 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
[SUP]8 [/SUP](According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

 

[just-me]

Ezekiel 37:16-22 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

 

[Grandpa]

Your personal opinion (or judgement in this case) about a person's motives mean nothing. This is a discussion. You're making personal judgements about someone you don't know from Adam because he disagrees with your stance on some doctrine. Instead of reading his posts and considering them, and replying to the reasoning involved, you attack his motives. You obviously can't even see what you're doing. Why would you offend me? I know you're entirely wrong in what you're saying and doing.

Your attack represents the very darkness you speak of.

Which part of what I said was incorrect?

Is it only wrong because you view it as an attack? That is your personal opinion...

Bringing something into the Light is darkness? I suppose it is kicking and screaming a little, but the light does that to stuff thats not used to it.

 

[RedTent]

Just a note. God already did this. He did it the moment he said "it is finished" We are all united under the abrahamic covenant.

According to the history of the Jewish Race for the last 2,000 years, there are millions and millions of people who haven't caught on to this. Haven't you been reading this post? This movement is accepting that absolutely terrible thing "Judaism". Not the deny Jesus part, not the rituals for salvation part, not denying any word of the NT, but allowing rituals in their worship, to not separate themselves sufficiently. Posters are saying that any uniting is making them a cult.

 

[JaumeJ]

The OP is about the Hebrew Roots Movement......... I believe it is asking if it is a cult. I believe any structured theology that feels it requires its own name has strayed from the Word by virtue of its need to be named for a person or for a person's variation of the original Word. Thank you.

 

[Grandpa]

The OP is about the Hebrew Roots Movement......... I believe it is asking if it is a cult. I believe any structured theology that feels it requires its own name has strayed from the Word by virtue of its need to be named for a person or for a person's variation of the original Word. Thank you.

Do you mean except for Christianity? Or do you include that name as well?

 

[crossnote]

Forgive me if this link was already posted earlier. One page on the The Dangers of Hebrew Roots Movement/Messianic Judaism

 

[crossnote]

Forgive me if this link was already posted earlier. One page on the The Dangers of Hebrew Roots Movement/Messianic Judaism

A key paragraph...
The Old Testament (or Torah) is not the greater revelation, nor does the OT shine light on the NT, the NT opens and reveals the OT and shows what the symbols and shadows really meant. The DEEPER things of God are found in the NT, not the OT, because Christ is revealed in all of his glory in the NT. We are rooted, all of us, in CHRIST and while the OT is filled with the glory of the Lord, the NT opens up and reveals His glory in splendor and shows us that intimacy with Christ comes through his sacrifice which surpasses all that went before. Emphasis on the Torah over the NT is emphasizing that which could not save. The Holy Spirit given to all those who are in Christ Jesus, gives us understanding and leads us into all truth, not the Torah.

 

[JaumeJ]

I genuinely feel the need to ask you, What is your problem? What is it you are possibly finding fault in the clearly stated "strayed from the Word?" Are you telling me Christianity has strayed from the Word? I will have to meditate on that, but from my decades of previous meditation, I am clear on the thought. Thank you very much for pointing this out to the family in Yeshua, Jesus.

The OP is about the Hebrew Roots Movement......... I believe it is asking if it is a cult. I believe any structured theology that feels it requires its own name has strayed from the Word by virtue of its need to be named for a person or for a person's variation of the original Word. Thank you.

Do you mean except for Christianity? Or do you include that name as well?