Is the law of Moses set aside?

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Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#81
you have had this explained to you so many times, and ignored it, one more will do no good.
In other words, we are not to study scripture, just ask you to explain it, or take a vote on the explanation. Most popular wins. I don't think so.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,946
1,269
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Australia
#82
Please read all.. bible verses.
Is there different laws to consider?

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Adam and Eve were in a sinless world and they sinned .... So logic states that a law was there that defined sin.

A covenant was made with Abraham and 430 latter a law was given.

Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

The law that was given through Moses was different to the law that defined sin for Adam and Eve.

A Law was added because of Sin. And a Law defined sin.

The Added law was to be in place until the seed should come.

Jesus was the end of the law that was added because of transgression.

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

The laws that were a shadow of Christ have ceased, They are no longer needed because Jesus has come and we have the real thing.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Eph_2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

If you place all the laws together the Bible contradicts itself.

Pro 3:1 My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments:
Pro 3:2 For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to thee.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.



Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

We are told by Jesus in the NT that we should obey the 10 commandments.

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

If you are trying to work your way to salvation, trying to be saved by keeping the law you have already failed and are cursed. We have all sinned and all deserve death. All have transgressed the Law which defines sin. The curse of the law is death.

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Christ has redeemed us from the "curse of the law" not from the law? = he has redeemed us from the punishment of the law.

Are God’s law and Moses’ law the same?

No—they are not the same.

Moses’ law contained the temporary, ceremonial law of the Old Testament. It regulated the priesthood, sacrifices, rituals, meat and drink offerings, etc., all of which foreshadowed the cross. This law was added “till the Seed should come,” and that seed was Christ (Galatians 3:16, 19). The ritual and ceremony of Moses’ law pointed forward to Christ’s sacrifice. When He died, this law came to an end, but the Ten Commandments (God’s law) “stand fast forever and ever” (Psalm 111:8).

God’s law has existed at least as long as sin has existed. The Bible says, “Where there is no law there is no transgression [sin]” (Romans 4:15). So God’s Ten Commandment law existed from the beginning. Men broke that law (sinned—1 John 3:4). Because of sin (or breaking God’s law), Moses’ law was given (or “added”—Galatians 3:16, 19) till Christ should come and die. Two separate laws are involved: God’s law and Moses’ law.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,946
1,269
113
Australia
#83
tms is Hebrew Roots, a belief system that says one must accept Christ as Savior, and also keep the Law, Sabbath and O.T. festival days to be saved.
That is presumptuous.
I do not believe anyone can be saved by their own righteousness. i believe in Righteousness by Faith alone.

I have never stated that someone must keep the law to gain salvation. Salvation is a gift.

But i do believe that if you love the Lord you will keep the law, and that the law is good for us to understand sin and avoid it.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
 

Hazelelponi

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2019
609
397
63
USA
#84
The law of Moses was given in stone. Stone is lasting and true, but it is without love. It could be obeyed by the letter of the law rather than the spirit of the law, or with love. It was of the earth, even the blessings obedience brought were fleshly blessing of such as good crops. It was weak.

The Lord changed the law from being in stone to being in our hearts. We are told in Jeremiah 31:33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,”declares the Lord. I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.” This applies to all people who accept Christ. The law is no longer in stone, but the law is in our hearts.

The law is now changed from a weak law to a law with the spirit of love, a powerful law.

Jesus gave us the base of the true law of the Lord. "Jesus answered him," Love God, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. " (Matthew 22:37)

John 1:17 For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.
no you can't as a Christian go out and commit murder, and not have sinned.

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets..

the law of God wasn't simply erased. It was reiterated. In a manner that was easily understood, and more easily followed.

if we love God we will avoid sin and those things He hates, nor will we have false gods or engage in idol worship, and if we love our brethren as ourselves we won't be gossips or slander or steal or bear false witness, or kill people or commit adultery etc.

so we are, if we be Christian and not in sin or failing a trial, following the commandments of God in full.

It's a far easier task with God's law written on our hearts, and His Spirit inside us, than the failure of trying to carry out this task in our sinful flesh. Although even the best Christian can fall back into the flesh.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
2,979
871
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#85
Amen! Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.
Good reply.

Long time no see.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,895
3,634
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#87
In regard to the Ten commandments, He, Christ fulfilled the law, as well as the other laws. true i agree.

But does that mean that we can continue in sin? Can we now disregard the 10 commandments and steal, kill, or take the lords name in vain, because Jesus kept it perfectly and has given His life to forgive our sins?

Do we make void the law because of faith in Jesus?
Oh dear, who would even want to continue in sin after encountering God’s enormous tsunami tidal wave of incredible LOVE for you?!!!!

Jesus Christ being the Human Fulfillment of the Law for us is so EXCITING!!! It’s like Father God opened the doors of Heaven and shouted at us with great joy to …. “COME IN!!! Come to Me!!!! I love you!!!”

Why be all critical and focus on people thinking they have a FREE TICKET to sin?

Instead rejoice! God gave all that will BELIEVE in Jesus Christ a FREE TICKET to Heaven!!! Hallelujah!

Sin has consequences…. hurts us, hurts others, hurts God…makes a huge mess of our lives….total waste of time and sin opens doors of demonic attacks, evil spirits, etc….just a huge mess!

I love God so much!!! He has been so faithful to bless those that are not perfect but do love Him with a perfect child like heart…:love:

Getting all entangled with religious works can be just as deadly as getting entangled with the cares of the world.

It’s easy to not lie when you love the truth… it’s easy to not steal when you love to give…. It’s easy to not covet when you see how good God has been to you and you are filled with thankfulness…:love:(y)
 

Hazelelponi

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2019
609
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#88
Oh dear, who would even want to continue in sin after encountering God’s enormous tsunami tidal wave of incredible LOVE for you?!!!!

Jesus Christ being the Human Fulfillment of the Law for us is so EXCITING!!! It’s like Father God opened the doors of Heaven and shouted at us with great joy to …. “COME IN!!! Come to Me!!!! I love you!!!”

Why be all critical and focus on people thinking they have a FREE TICKET to sin?

Instead rejoice! God gave all that will BELIEVE in Jesus Christ a FREE TICKET to Heaven!!! Hallelujah!

Sin has consequences…. hurts us, hurts others, hurts God…makes a huge mess of our lives….total waste of time and sin opens doors of demonic attacks, evil spirits, etc….just a huge mess!

I love God so much!!! He has been so faithful to bless those that are not perfect but do love Him with a perfect child like heart…:love:


Getting all entangled with religious works can be just as deadly as getting entangled with the cares of the world.

It’s easy to not lie when you love the truth… it’s easy to not steal when you love to give…. It’s easy to not covet when you see how good God has been to you and you are filled with thankfulness…:love:(y)
Well I'm confused because some are saying people on this forum are trying to teach exactly that.

I believe in grace through faith, but it's not an excuse to do whatever.
 

Hazelelponi

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2019
609
397
63
USA
#89
P.S. it would be wildly helpful for people to use a greater clarity when they speak n
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,895
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#90
Well I'm confused because some are saying people on this forum are trying to teach exactly that.

I believe in grace through faith, but it's not an excuse to do whatever.
Who said grace is an excuse to do whatever?

Sin is death….. nothing but a cup of poison. Who wants to drink a cup of poison?!

Being consumed with trying not to sin takes our focus off of God and on ourselves….which is a setup for failure.

Focus on knowing and loving God…Father, Son Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit.
 

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
1,405
780
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#92
But they were given the equivalent. See Romans 2.
Nemiah, you are surely correct. The principles of each of the 10 Commandments are referenced in the New Testament.

Actually, just about all Christian denominations recognize the 10 Commandments to be valid. In fact, while the 10 Commandments come from the Old Testament, the New Testament references many of the principles of the Old.

The 10 Commandments in the New Testament

The 10 Commandments are not expressed in list form in the New Testament like they are in Exodus 20. Instead, writers refer to them in the context of their teaching about Christ and the church. All the principles from the 10 Commandments are alive and well in New Testament Scripture.


Exodus 20 revealed in the New Testament all 10 Commandments:

1“You shall have no other gods before me.” (Ex. 20:2)“For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus.” 1 Timothy 2:5

2“You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.” (Ex. 20:3-6)“Dear children, keep yourselves from idols.” 1 John 5:21

3“You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.” (Ex. 20:7)“All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered.” 1 Timothy 6:1

4“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.” (Ex. 20:8)“Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.” Colossians 2:16

*5“Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.” (Ex. 20:9-11)“Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. ‘Honor your father and mother’ — which is the first commandment with a promise —” Ephesians 6:1-2

6“You shall not murder.” (Ex. 20:13)“The commandments, ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not covet,’ and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.'” (Romans 13:9)

7“You shall not commit adultery.” (Ex. 20:14)“Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.” (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)

8“You shall not steal.” (Ex. 20:15)“Anyone who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with their own hands, that they may have something to share with those in need.” (Ephesians 4:28)

9“You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.” (Ex. 20:16)“But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” (Revelation 21:8)

10“You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.” (Ex. 20:17)“Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.” (Colossians 3:5)
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,177
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#93
Well I'm confused because some are saying people on this forum are trying to teach exactly that.

I believe in grace through faith, but it's not an excuse to do whatever.
It sure isn’t grace is a teacher of repentance and the righteousness of Christ

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-12, 14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

grace through faith teaches us to repent through the gospel and live by the gospel
 

BeeThePeace

Active member
May 2, 2022
443
135
43
#94
The law of Moses was given in stone. Stone is lasting and true, but it is without love. It could be obeyed by the letter of the law rather than the spirit of the law, or with love. It was of the earth, even the blessings obedience brought were fleshly blessing of such as good crops. It was weak.

The Lord changed the law from being in stone to being in our hearts. We are told in Jeremiah 31:33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,”declares the Lord. I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.” This applies to all people who accept Christ. The law is no longer in stone, but the law is in our hearts.

The law is now changed from a weak law to a law with the spirit of love, a powerful law.

Jesus gave us the base of the true law of the Lord. "Jesus answered him," Love God, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. " (Matthew 22:37)

John 1:17 For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.
U may be wrong but, aren't the ten commandments the moral example set in love of God and one another?
 

Hazelelponi

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2019
609
397
63
USA
#95
It sure isn’t grace is a teacher of repentance and the righteousness of Christ

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-12, 14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

grace through faith teaches us to repent through the gospel and live by the gospel
I'm not sure I understand you? (I understand the scripture you posted fine, but the confusion of your first sentence is a bit confusing for me.

Since I don't often post here, allow me to introduce where I am theologically, perhaps that will help others understand my posts more.

My favorite famous Pastors anyone can see on YouTube are Paul Washer and Voddie Baucham to name two.

I am a reformed Christian theologically. Favorite systematic theology, and the only one I've yet read (though others have been recommended) is Wayne Grudems systematic theology the one with the blue cover.

My favorite theological websites are Ligonier Ministries, a Puritans Mind, Monergism, etc.

I also believe in the covenental relationship between God and man as outlined in Jesus and Israel: one Covenant or Two


If I'm remembering correctly, my Scriptural understanding is not welcome on this website, which leaves me more limited in speech here.

I am back to add something important in another thread, that doesn't require me talking about my beliefs which are considered controversial here. But I'm lightly jumping in in other threads because there's active biblical discussion which is nice. :) But that's not stopping the fact my speech is limited here.

So, that's my theology in a nutshell for those who are well read. Hopefully this is helpful for you.

Now, can you clarify your meaning in your response to me.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,895
3,634
113
#96
What exactly does the Law of Moses consist of???????????? What are you referring to. Different things are meant by the Law of Moses. Thanks
God gave Moses the first five books of the Bible(known as the Torah) - Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. In the book of Leviticus you'll find laws regarding ceremonies, diet, civil, and the ten commandments. Most people think of the book of Leviticus when they refer to the Law of Moses but, I tend to make all of the Torah all inclusive in the Law of Moses.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
2,979
871
113
#97
But they were given the equivalent. See Romans 2.
They were given the equivalent, you say?

Let's check the text (Romans 2) on that.

Romans 2:14
For when Gentiles who do not have the Law instinctively perform the requirements of the Law, these, though not having the Law, are a law to themselves...

The Gentiles do not have the law.

Gentiles are not under the law, never were under the law.

Gentiles are a law to themselves!

The equivalent is obvious.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,334
29,581
113
#99
you have had this explained to you so many times, and ignored it, one more will do no good.
I am always on the lookout for the inspiration that will drive the designing of my next Scripture panel :D

These verses from Job 33 came to my attention yesterday ~


13 Why do you complain to him
that he responds to no one’s words?
14 For God does speak—now one way, now
another—though no one perceives it.

15 In a dream, in a vision of the night,
when deep sleep falls on people
as they slumber in their beds,
16 he may speak in their ears
and terrify them with warnings,
17 to turn them from wrongdoing
and keep them from pride,
18 to preserve them from the pit,
their lives from perishing by the sword.

19 “Or someone may be chastened on a bed of pain
with constant distress in their bones,
20 so that their body finds food repulsive
and their soul loathes the choicest meal.

21 Their flesh wastes away to nothing,
and their bones, once hidden, now stick out.

22 They draw near to the pit,
and their life to the messengers of death.

23 Yet if there is an angel at their side,
a messenger, one out of a thousand,
sent to tell them how to be upright,
24 and he is gracious to that person and says to God,
‘Spare them from going down to the pit;
I have found a ransom for them—

25 let their flesh be renewed like a child’s;
let them be restored as in the days of their youth’—
26 then that person can pray to God and find favor with him,
they will see God’s face and shout for joy;
he will restore them to full well-being.

27 And they will go to others and say,
‘I have sinned, I have perverted what is right,
but I did not get what I deserved.

28 God has delivered me from going down to the pit,
and I shall live to enjoy the light of life.’
29 “God does all these things to a person—
twice, even three times—
30 to turn them back from the pit,
that the light of life may shine on them.

I have sinned and perverted
what was right; yet I did
not get what I deserved.
He redeemed my soul
from going down to the Pit,
and I will live to see the light.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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God gave Moses the first five books of the Bible(known as the Torah) - Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. In the book of Leviticus you'll find laws regarding ceremonies, diet, civil, and the ten commandments. Most people think of the book of Leviticus when they refer to the Law of Moses but, I tend to make all of the Torah all inclusive in the Law of Moses.
Make an adjustment that will bless your spirit = although the Torah was written by Moses, not all that was written is the Mosaic Law.

Genesis is before the Law of Moses and Genesis is the Foundation of TRUTH, the Gospel and the Promises.