Is the Prophet lying?

[valiant]

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is unforgivable !!!!

Plain and simple there is no forgiveness for this sin, or you make Jesus out to be lying to say it can be.

Those who claim it can be forgiven is been lead in that false teaching that this sin is simply unbelief, but I have been lead by the Holy Spirit that is not true as we would all then not receive eternal life for we all were once in unbelief.

Oh no the self-proclaimed false prophet is here. You are right in saying that the unforgivable sin is not pure unbelief. Where you are wrong is in failing to see that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is continual and deliberate rejection of the witness of the Spirit by an unbeliever. The people Jesus was speaking to had NEVER been true believers. They were in danger of the sin because they were aware of the Spirit at work and were rejecting His witness.

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is speaking against and denying of His gifts and fruits working in and through us.

NONSENSE, the Scribes and Pharisees had NEVER denied gifts and fruit working within them. But it was THEY who were in danger of blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. As usual you twist Scripture to fit into you strange ideas.

Apostle Paul gives a stern warning to believers to not grieve the Holy Spirit by returning to a deliberate sinful lifestyle.

True but that has nothing to do with blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. It is calling on them to respond to a love that grieved over them

The eternal life that Jesus is speaking on that we have right now in John is by the Holy Spirit abiding in us, not our own personal possession of it

Nonsense. WE have received eternal life. It has become OUR LIFE. WE have received eternal life. (John 5.24; 1 John 5.12-13).

as Apostle John shows this clearly in his epistle 1 John 2-4. The eternal life is abiding in us by the Holy Spirit, it is not an actual physical possession as that is reserved in heaven for us (1 Peter 1:4-9).

Once again you manipulate the Scriptures. Eternal life is life planted in us which has become OUR LIFE. Jesus gives to His sheep eternal life and PROMISES that they will NEVER PERISH (John 10.27-28). His promise could not be more definite. ANY interpretation that ignores that is clearly self-condemned.

We HAVE eternal life NOW, and we will enjoy it even more fully in heaven.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

(Heb 10:26 [AKJV])
For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,
(2Cor 5:19 [AKJV])
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, not imputing their trespasses to them; and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
So with what part of the verses do you disagree with??? "reconciling the world to himself" or "not imputing their trespasses to them" or "the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world".

There's nothing about repenting in any of that. Its all an act of God toward us, its about a Free Gift. Now there is a place for repentance, but not on God's part of reconciliation. The reconciliation is done, but will we stay in it and that's where the repentance comes into play.

So which is it? you seem to be speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

Did Jesus die for all sin of the whole world or not?

Are you now saying we can lose salvation once we repented? If thats the case, then jesus did not pay for every sin now did he?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You show exactly what I mean as you try and water it down to simply lying to Him.
That however is not what Apostle Paul alluded to when he said we are not to grieve, deny Him, His gifts, or the fruits produced by Him in and through us.

The fruits of the Holy Spirit are emphasized by Jesus and all the Apostles in the bible for a reason, and that reason is because those fruits are proof that one is saved and without those fruits evident Jesus says they will be cut off and burned. Jesus and James both also show a hearer only but not a doer of the word is deceived and has no foundation of faith built on Him.
(Luke 6:46-49, Jame 1:19-27)

If you deny those fruits to act in your life and deny the gifts instead of pursue them then you are denying the Holy Spirit.

The fruits of the Spirit are the opposite of sin, for if you walk by those fruits you will not commit transgression !!!

I just show what Jesus said,

The pharisee said he did the miracles by satans power

In reality, It was by the power of the HS that Jesus did his healing and everything.

Jesus declared they were in danger of committing this unpardonable sin.

The HS raised jesus from the dead

The HS comes and convicts the world of righteousness, judgement and sin

the HS teaches an unbeliever who God is

The HS is the one who will save them when they repent (baptise them, seal them, annoint them)

anyone who teaches otherwise, will die in this sin.

 

[KennethC]

Let's take a look at the context and see Who is being spoken to:

Heb 10:19-26 (KJV)
19) Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20) By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21) And [having] an high priest over the house of God;
22) Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23) Let us hold fast the profession of [our] faith without wavering; (for he [is] faithful that promised
24) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25) Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some [is]; but exhorting [one another]: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Yes that passage is talking to believers, and not unbelievers who have not accepted Jesus Christ as Lord yet.

Then it goes down to speaking on from verse 22 to 25 about repentance (true heart) and baptism (clear conscious), and keeping our confession in Him without wavering. Push others toward doing good works instead of telling others they are worthless, and also assembling together for exhortation and worshiping.

Then after doing all of that in the faith if we continue to sin willfully (deliberately) there remains no more sacrifice of the Lord to give us remission of sins. For those who continue down that path of deliberate sins are trampling on the Son of God.

Parallel that with Galatians where Paul told those Galatians who left the gospel of Christ to go back to justification by the law, that Christ has become of no effect to them and they have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4).

This is what Hebrews 10:26 is saying that Christ sacrifice is no longer any effect for those who deliberately continue to sin, to give them remission of those sins.

 

[valiant]

Let's take a look at the context and see Who is being spoken to:

Heb 10:19-26 (KJV)
19) Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20) By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21) And [having] an high priest over the house of God;
22) Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23) Let us hold fast the profession of [our] faith without wavering; (for he [is] faithful that promised
24) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25) Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some [is]; but exhorting [one another]: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Quite right, the Hebrew writer is writing to his fellow Hebrews, his brethren. And he is advising them that the way into heaven is open for them AS LONG AS THEY RESPOND TO JESUS CHRIST AS THEIR SAVIOR.

They must either openly respond to Christ or they must reject Him. The choice is theirs. For the Christian there is NO SIN for which Christ's sacrifice will not avail as Jesus Christ made clear. The only unforgivable sin is continual and permanent rejection of Jesus Christ by unbelievers through unbelief when the Holy Spirit is clearly working in men's hearts.

 

[KennethC]

I just show what Jesus said,

The pharisee said he did the miracles by satans power

In reality, It was by the power of the HS that Jesus did his healing and everything.

Jesus declared they were in danger of committing this unpardonable sin.

The HS raised jesus from the dead

The HS comes and convicts the world of righteousness, judgement and sin

the HS teaches an unbeliever who God is

The HS is the one who will save them when they repent (baptise them, seal them, annoint them)

anyone who teaches otherwise, will die in this sin.

Jesus did not say they were in danger of committing that sin, He was showing that by their denial of Him that they would not enter the kingdom of heaven and even said a prostitute will get to heaven over them. Because prostitution can be forgiven by denying the working of the Holy Spirit is not.

If they committed the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit there would be no forgiveness for them no matter if they repented, or you make Jesus a liar when He clearly said that is the only sin that would not be forgiven of man !!!

You can make it forgivable if you want but I will stick with what Jesus said that it will never be forgiven of man.

 

[KennethC]

Quite right, the Hebrew writer is writing to his fellow Hebrews, his brethren. And he is advising them that the way into heaven is open for them AS LONG AS THEY RESPOND TO JESUS CHRIST AS THEIR SAVIOR.

They must either openly respond to Christ or they must reject Him. The choice is theirs. For the Christian there is NO SIN for which Christ's sacrifice will not avail as Jesus Christ made clear. The only unforgivable sin is continual and permanent rejection of Jesus Christ by unbelievers through unbelief when the Holy Spirit is clearly working in men's hearts.

We are all brethren Valiant, it does not matter if you are Hebrew, Jew, Gentile, Greek, Asian, or so on.

If you believe in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior you are part of the brethren !!!

 

[valiant]

Yes that passage is talking to believers, and not unbelievers who have not accepted Jesus Christ as Lord yet.

LOL once again you are led by a false spirit. The passage is spoken to a group of Jewish brothers, some of whom have responded to Christ, and some of whom are hesitating because of the fear of persecution.

Then it goes down to speaking on from verse 22 to 25 about repentance (true heart) and baptism (clear conscious),

Oh dear once again the false spirit has taken control. A true heart is one which without prevarication is responsive to Christ, a clear conscience is one that is free from sin because that sin has been forgiven. They do NOT represent repentance and baptism.

and keeping our confession in Him without wavering.

we are certainly to do that, but it is not a condition of salvation, it is a consequence of it.

Push others toward doing good works instead of telling others they are worthless, and also assembling together for exhortation and worshiping.

we can agree on that

Then after doing all of that in the faith if we continue to sin willfully (deliberately) there remains no more sacrifice of the Lord to give us remission of sins.

such a statement would be contrary to the whole of the New Testament. NO sin that a Christian commits is unforgiveable. what is being said here is that those who continue to sin wilfully after they have heard the knowledge of the truth can no longer take refuge in Jewish offerings. All they can expect (if they refuse to respond to Christ) is the judgment that such sins deserve.

For those who continue down that path of deliberate sins are trampling on the Son of God.

yes if they commit the deliberate sin of refusing to respond to Christ in the face of the Holy Spirit's continual pleading.

Parallel that with Galatians where Paul told those Galatians who left the gospel of Christ to go back to justification by the law, that Christ has become of no effect to them and they have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4).

LOL falling from grace was a doctrinal thing, it is what happens when people listen to your teaching. they fall away from grace based salvation to works based salvation. But it does not mean that (if they were truly saved) they are no longer truly saved. It calls them to come back to the truth.

This is what Hebrews 10:26 is saying that Christ sacrifice is no longer any effect for those who deliberately continue to sin, to give them remission of those sins.

No it is saying to Jews that once they have heard the truth Jewish sacrifices will no longer avail for sins committed. They must either come to Christ or be eternally judged. IT DOES NOT SAY THAT CHRIST'S SACRIFICE WILL NO LONGER AVAIL. It is Jewish sacrifices which will no longer avail.

 

[KennethC]

LOL once again you are led by a false spirit. The passage is spoken to a group of Jewish brothers, some of whom have responded to Christ, and some of whom are hesitating because of the fear of persecution.



Oh dear once again the false spirit has taken control. A true heart is one which without prevarication is responsive to Christ, a clear conscience is one that is free from sin because that sin has been forgiven. They do NOT represent repentance and baptism.



we are certainly to do that, but it is not a condition of salvation, it is a consequence of it.



we can agree on that



such a statement would be contrary to the whole of the New Testament. NO sin that a Christian commits is unforgiveable. what is being said here is that those who continue to sin wilfully after they have heard the knowledge of the truth can no longer take refuge in Jewish offerings. All they can expect (if they refuse to respond to Christ) is the judgment that such sins deserve.




yes if they commit the deliberate sin of refusing to respond to Christ in the face of the Holy Spirit's continual pleading.



LOL falling from grace was a doctrinal thing, it is what happens when people listen to your teaching. they fall away from grace based salvation to works based salvation. But it does not mean that (if they were truly saved) they are no longer truly saved. It calls them to come back to the truth.




No it is saying to Jews that once they have heard the truth Jewish sacrifices will no longer avail for sins committed. They must either come to Christ or be eternally judged. IT DOES NOT SAY THAT CHRIST'S SACRIFICE WILL NO LONGER AVAIL. It is Jewish sacrifices which will no longer avail.

That is not what it is saying at all as that passage in Hebrews 10:26 is not speaking about animal sacrifices, that is your interjection into that scripture.

It is Christ sacrifice that no longer remains for them because they are trampling Him underfoot.
If you think a person is still going to be forgiven and have eternal life even though they continue to deliberate deny Him by continuing in that sinful lifestyle then you need to reread those passages.

The reference of immediate punishment for those who denied the Mosaic laws are being referenced here is to only show that the punishment for denying the teachings of the Lord to continue in willful sin will be more severe as those will stand before God and face the second death. (Revelation 20:14)

 

[valiant]

We are all brethren Valiant, it does not matter if you are Hebrew, Jew, Gentile, Greek, Asian, or so on.

If you believe in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior you are part of the brethren !!!

The writer to the Hebrew was speaking to JEWISH BRETHREN. You are giving your own definition to the term to suit your own convenience. The writer to the Hebrews was NOT addressing ME (even though SOME of what he says applies to me), for I was never in the position he speaks of.

But even when Paul used the term to Gentiles it signified the outward church some of whom would be unsaved. They made the profession of being brethren and were seen and treated as such. That is why some of them had to be warned. . We do the same today. We address our whole church as 'brethren' even though we know that some are unsaved. It is not our position to disinherit our listeners.

It is possible to be a 'brother' without being saved. What it signifies is sympathy with the church by those who profess to be members.

So YOUR definition of who are brethren is false. It was certainly not taught to you by the Holy Spirit.

 

[KennethC]

The writer to the Hebrew was speaking to JEWISH BRETHREN. You are giving your own definition to the term to suit your own convenience. The writer to the Hebrews was NOT addressing ME (even though SOME of what he says applies to me), for I was never in the position he speaks of.

But even when Paul used the term to Gentiles it signified the outward church some of whom would be unsaved. They made the profession of being brethren and were seen and treated as such. That is why some of them had to be warned. . We do the same today. We address our whole church as 'brethren' even though we know that some are unsaved. It is not our position to disinherit our listeners.

It is possible to be a 'brother' without being saved. What it signifies is sympathy with the church by those who profess to be members.

So YOUR definition of who are brethren is false. It was certainly not taught to you by the Holy Spirit.

Yes Paul did use the term Gentile, but Apostle Paul also said there is no difference between a Jewish believer and a Gentile believer. We all have the same standard to follow in the faith and not different standards.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Romans 10:12
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

If something is said to a Jewish believer it also applies to a Gentile believer, it does not matter if the epistle is written to Jews, Hebrews, Galatians, or any other it still applies to us as well.

 

[shotgunner]

I completely agree with Valiant and post #108.

Kenneth,
Let me ask you a question that perhaps will bring some of your fallacy to light.

You say that Hebrews says that if we willfully sin there no longer remains any sacrifice for us correct? What then happens if a Christian comments adultery? That is willful sin. No one made him do it. He didn't just wake up in another woman's bed and wonder how he got there. According to your doctrine there is no sacrifice for him. He's done for. Isn't that what you are saying?

Now you might say it's ok for him to commit adultery once and ask for forgiveness but how many times is the magic number that sends him to Hell, especially in the light of Jesus telling us we should forgive a trespass 70X7 times in a single day.

Anyone caught up in adultery needs to repent and I can't se where a Christian could continue in adultery without terrible condemnation on their part with the HS convicting them and leading them to repent but that's a lot different from no longer having Jesus as their sacrifice for sin.

 

[valiant]

Jesus did not say they were in danger of committing that sin,

Strange. He did in my Bible.

~Mar 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
Mar 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
Mar 3:30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

 

[ember]

If the shoe fits wear it. Obviously its fitting!

well this is typical too....how clever

 

[valiant]

Yes Paul did use the term Gentile, but Apostle Paul also said there is no difference between a Jewish believer and a Gentile believer. We all have the same standard to follow in the faith and not different standards.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Romans 10:12
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

If something is said to a Jewish believer it also applies to a Gentile believer, it does not matter if the epistle is written to Jews, Hebrews, Galatians, or any other it still applies to us as well.

NONSENSE. If a letter is addressed 'to Hebrews' its direct application is to Hebrews. If a letter is addressed to saints it includes both Hebrew and Gentiles. Why else do you think the letters were directed to different peoples?

Paul did not say that there was no difference between a Jewish believer and a Gentile believer (who thereby became an Israelite, not a Jew). He said that God did not treat them differently. He himself said, 'to the Jew I speak as a Jew'. That was clear differentiation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus did not say they were in danger of committing that sin, He was showing that by their denial of Him that they would not enter the kingdom of heaven and even said a prostitute will get to heaven over them. Because prostitution can be forgiven by denying the working of the Holy Spirit is not.

If they committed the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit there would be no forgiveness for them no matter if they repented, or you make Jesus a liar when He clearly said that is the only sin that would not be forgiven of man !!!

You can make it forgivable if you want but I will stick with what Jesus said that it will never be forgiven of man.

I know, it is sad, you so want to earn your right to heaven, by being so good. and doing things.

Jesus said those who are in unbelief are condemned. He also said blasphemy of the spirit is condemned.

You put 2 and 2 together, it equals 4.

Blasphemy, one of the defenitions, is to dissent from what that person teaches.. ie,, The people of 17th century england committed blasphemy because they dissented from church doctrine." (example of its usage taken in the websters unabridged dictionary)

when you deny jesus, you reject what the HS teaches about hi, thus you dissent from what he teaches, ie, you commit blasphemy against him.

it is not rocket science (well unless your not his, then it is foolishness to you)

 

[KennethC]

I completely agree with Valiant and post #108.

Kenneth,
Let me ask you a question that perhaps will bring some of your fallacy to light.

You say that Hebrews says that if we willfully sin there no longer remains any sacrifice for us correct? What then happens if a Christian comments adultery? That is willful sin. No one made him do it. He didn't just wake up in another woman's bed and wonder how he got there. According to your doctrine there is no sacrifice for him. He's done for. Isn't that what you are saying?

Now you might say it's ok for him to commit adultery once and ask for forgiveness but how many times is the magic number that sends him to Hell, especially in the light of Jesus telling us we should forgive a trespass 70X7 times in a single day.

Anyone caught up in adultery needs to repent and I can't se where a Christian could continue in adultery without terrible condemnation on their part with the HS convicting them and leading them to repent but that's a lot different from no longer having Jesus as their sacrifice for sin.

The problem once again that you are not seeing is the difference between continuous willfull sinning and a one time sin (stumble) that is repented of.

You bring up the 70 x 7 that so many bring up that is completely misused, because Jesus also showed that if a person says they repent but continue to do that sin that repentance was not true. For we are to show fruits worthy of repentance, as a true repentance has the person turn away from committing that sin.

Repentance does not mean just saying sorry, and forgiving others that many times is for our benefit because it will let go of any built up anger that one may hold over another to where we will not sin in that anger (Ephesians 4:26).

We are told to let go and not hold things over on others or we would be in sin !!!

The bible also shows that some will refuse that chastising of the Lord by the Holy Spirit and will become accursed children (2 Peter 2:14).


Here is a list that the bible says believers can do:

1. Fall from grace - Gal. 5:1-4,13
2. Be led away with error - 2 Pet. 3:17
3. Err from the truth - James 5:19-20
4. Weak brother may perish - 1 Cor. 8:11
5. Fall into condemnation - James 5:12
6. Be moved away from the hope - Col. 1:21-23
7. Deny the Lord who bought them - 2 Pet. 2:1
8. Depart from the living God - Heb. 3:12
9. Can be a castaway - 1 Cor. 9:27
10. Can become accursed children - 2 Pet. 2:14


These scriptures above are spoken to believers, not unbelievers !!!

 

[KennethC]

Strange. He did in my Bible.

~Mar 3:28Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
Mar 3:29But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
Mar 3:30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

Jesus was speaking to the Apostles there and was telling them what sins will be forgiven and which ones would not, and Jesus said they who blasphemy the Holy Spirit will "never" be forgiven. Then He showed part of that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is denying the power comes from God but stating it is a unclean spirit instead.

Once again if the Pharisees committed this sin they would not receive eternal life, because they would never be forgiven !!!

 

[KennethC]

NONSENSE. If a letter is addressed 'to Hebrews' its direct application is to Hebrews. If a letter is addressed to saints it includes both Hebrew and Gentiles. Why else do you think the letters were directed to different peoples?

Paul did not say that there was no difference between a Jewish believer and a Gentile believer (who thereby became an Israelite, not a Jew). He said that God did not treat them differently. He himself said, 'to the Jew I speak as a Jew'. That was clear differentiation.

There are not 2 different gospels that were preached !!!

The gospel of Christ given to the Jews(cicumsized) by Peter is the same gospel of Christ given to the Gentiles(uncircumsized) by Paul.

To teach Jews and Gentiles have two separated standards to follow is completely false teaching, and Acts 15 and Galatians clears this up that we are all under one set of standards not two. If a Hebrew believer is told they can not continue to sin deliberately after receiving Christ, then a Gentile believer has that same standard.

 

[shotgunner]

Kenneth
How many times can I stumble and still be forgiven? I seriously want to know.

Don't you see how silly it is to put a limit on the grace of God?