I've had difficulty calling the Father Son and Holy Spirit 'persons' because it seems like they are separate. They may be distinct expressions of the one being God.. but o can't see them being separate.
Is the Trinity like 1/3+1/3+1/3=1?
- Thread starter Aravis_8
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
The Trinity is a man made thing, based on false information. If you read the Bible as written, God is substituted for elohim and theos meaning devine beings. Lord is substituted for Yahweh. If you actually read it like it’s written Yahweh is the God over elohim. Jesus is theos, a Heavenly being, not God the Father. He is the Son of the Most High and the Spirit is the energy that has been detected by theoretical physicists. It is described as the flow of music that creates the symphony of order and structure to the cosmos. It runs through everything like your spirit runs through your body.
Every analogy of the Trinity that I have come across fails at some point. The way I understand it is as follows...
There is one God.
The Father is God.
Jesus is God.
The Holy Spirit is God.
The Father is not the Son.
The Son is not the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son.
This is slightly adapted from a classical trinitarian formula, so you may see it elsewhere.
There is one God.
The Father is God.
Jesus is God.
The Holy Spirit is God.
The Father is not the Son.
The Son is not the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son.
This is slightly adapted from a classical trinitarian formula, so you may see it elsewhere.
If the Holy Spirit is just "energy", then why does Jesus speak of the Holy Spirit as "He" in John 17?
Hi everyone,
I agree completely with oldhermit here. Here is what I deduced from another post:
Please explain to me the importance of the trinity to our salvation. Trinity is a label, you label me you limit me. Just like one pointed out, God is beyond our understanding. I think labeling the Holy Spirit, as a person, is where we fail. I like someone’s response in a comment describing the HS as an Entity. Entity works for me.
I was told what mattered was who I prayed to. I usually pray to my Heavenly Father as instructed by Jesus. I think it might be OK to pray to Jesus as some do, but I don't. Anyway, they wouldn't get jealous of each other. The scripture says if you have one you have the other. What Jesus did, He became the Son and lived a sinless life then died for us. What He did for has nothing to do with defining the HS. It does define the Father/Son relationship.
Now, about the HS. I am just saying the HS is everywhere at all times. I can't fathom that with my finite brain. I also can't fathom God having always existed: everything I experience has a beginning and an end. The HS is what makes God: God. I hope that clears it up for you.
Yours, Deade
You are probably regretting the use of thirds, so it is indeed not about the numbers. But "a good explanation" is simply this: The Godhead is ONE, and within the Godhead there are three Divine Persons, which is essentially "the Mystery of God". So analogies and numerical descriptions are folly.
It is John 16
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Firstly, there is no proof that the Spirit of truth is the Holy Spirit. Even so if it is I don’t deny the Holy Spirit is an entity, like our spirit is us.It is John 16
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
I do not believe there is a perfect analogy to describe the trinity.. I think we would probably need to have the minds of God to fully understand it..
For me personally i like the analogy of H2O..
H20 can appear in 3 very different forms but still be H20
H20 can appear as ICE which is a solid
H20 can appear as Water which is a liquid
H20 can appear as Steam which is a gas
All three forms can exist at the same time in the 3 different forms but still all of them are H20..
So in my analogy ICE would be the Father in His heavenly form, Water would be Jesus in the flesh, and Steam would be the Holy Spirit..
I don’t follow what you mean exactly. You assume the Holy Spirit is like the Spirit of truth, so they must be the same?
I have given birth to a daughter. To her, I am "Mommy." Nobody else calls me that, even if they can acknowledge that I am the mother of my daughter. Out of all the seven plus billion people on the planet, I have a special relationship with her because of it. To a few others, I am a sister. To my own parents, I was their child, even as an adult, even though they have passed from this world, I am still one of many children my parents brought into this world. To some I am an aunt, to some a friend, to others, simply a co-worker performing specific tasks to meet specific needs.
How I am seen is relational. The titles that get applied to me are all based on my relationships and function with the people I encounter, stranger, friend, enemy, family member, mother, co-worker. None of the titles and functions change the fact that I am one person operating in different roles. Some may even perceive me to be something I am not. LOL.
God has manifested in many ways throughout time in order to make
Himself known. He refers to Himself as a plurality from the beginning,
which does not in any way negate the Oneness of His Being.
Deuteronomy 6:4 says, “Hear oh Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord.”
Lord is Yahweh in the original and is singular. On the other hand, Elohim is plural for God.
It could read, “Yahweh (singular) our Elohim (plural) is one Yahweh (singular).”
This is referring to the oneness of God, but it also refers to plurality.
There is no other way to properly explain this other than the trinity.
There is only one God that we worship and serve. There are not many gods, but only one true and living God. The following scriptures make this fact abundantly clear:
“Hear oh Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord.” (Deuteronomy 6:4).
“So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me." (Isaiah 43:10).
“Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: ‘I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me.” (Isaiah 44:6).
“Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other.” (Isaiah 45:22).
“There is none like You, and there is no God besides You.” (2 Samuel 7:22).
“For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” (1 Timothy 2:5).
“There is no God but one.” (1 Corinthians 8:4).
https://ministrymaker.com/trinity-the-unity-and-oneness-of-god/
How I am seen is relational. The titles that get applied to me are all based on my relationships and function with the people I encounter, stranger, friend, enemy, family member, mother, co-worker. None of the titles and functions change the fact that I am one person operating in different roles. Some may even perceive me to be something I am not. LOL.
God has manifested in many ways throughout time in order to make
Himself known. He refers to Himself as a plurality from the beginning,
which does not in any way negate the Oneness of His Being.
God is a compound rather than an absolute unity. There are
plenty of places in scripture where God is speaking in the plural:
“Then God said, Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness.” (Genesis 1:26).
“Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil." (Genesis 3:22).
“Come, let Us go down” (Genesis 11:7).
“Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, “Whom
shall I send, and who will go for Us?” (Isaiah 6:8).
plenty of places in scripture where God is speaking in the plural:
“Then God said, Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness.” (Genesis 1:26).
“Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil." (Genesis 3:22).
“Come, let Us go down” (Genesis 11:7).
“Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, “Whom
shall I send, and who will go for Us?” (Isaiah 6:8).
Deuteronomy 6:4 says, “Hear oh Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord.”
Lord is Yahweh in the original and is singular. On the other hand, Elohim is plural for God.
It could read, “Yahweh (singular) our Elohim (plural) is one Yahweh (singular).”
This is referring to the oneness of God, but it also refers to plurality.
There is no other way to properly explain this other than the trinity.
There is only one God that we worship and serve. There are not many gods, but only one true and living God. The following scriptures make this fact abundantly clear:
“Hear oh Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord.” (Deuteronomy 6:4).
“So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me." (Isaiah 43:10).
“Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: ‘I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me.” (Isaiah 44:6).
“Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other.” (Isaiah 45:22).
“There is none like You, and there is no God besides You.” (2 Samuel 7:22).
“For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” (1 Timothy 2:5).
“There is no God but one.” (1 Corinthians 8:4).
https://ministrymaker.com/trinity-the-unity-and-oneness-of-god/
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name,
he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance,
whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 14:26he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance,
whatsoever I have said unto you.
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father,
even the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 15:26
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away:
for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart,
I will send him unto you.
John 16:7
The Holy Spirit is always referred to as HIM never it or thing
The Holy Spirit is the power of God the Father coming into
this world of time and space.
The Holy Spirit comes from the Father.
1=1=1
God The Father formed his Word (the Son Jesus Christ) by his Breath (Spirit).
To the point of if they depend on each other in order for God to exist, no, God the Father is greatest of all and his existence does not depend on anything or anyone because he is the Deity. Theoretically God the Father did not have to create or form Creation, he could in theory have held his peace and not spoken his Word or breathed out his Breath, but even in this case his Word and Breath would have still dwelt inside of him, just as they have from before the beginning (John 1:1-3). Rather than God depending on the Son and Spirit, it is rather Creation that depends on all three to exist.
Realistically though since Creation does indeed exist, Creation depends on God the Father both as himself, and depends on him breathing out his Spirit and speaking his Word to form the creation. A good scriptural foundation for this is Genesis 1 and John 1.
That does not mean that God the Father depends on the Son or the Spirit though for as the Son himself says "My Father, who has given them unto me, is greater than all." (John 10:29). While the Father is greater than all and does not by necessity depend upon his Word that does not make the Trinity as fractions or separate entities, but as equals and wholly united for as the Son the Lord Jesus Christ goes on to say in the same chapter, he and his Father are one (John 10:30). Also because God the Father did ultimately decide to create Creation by speaking it into existence as recorded in the Torah, his Word and him are indeed one and they do exist and work together being one and the same (John 14). Praise the Lord God Almighty!
God The Father formed his Word (the Son Jesus Christ) by his Breath (Spirit).
To the point of if they depend on each other in order for God to exist, no, God the Father is greatest of all and his existence does not depend on anything or anyone because he is the Deity. Theoretically God the Father did not have to create or form Creation, he could in theory have held his peace and not spoken his Word or breathed out his Breath, but even in this case his Word and Breath would have still dwelt inside of him, just as they have from before the beginning (John 1:1-3). Rather than God depending on the Son and Spirit, it is rather Creation that depends on all three to exist.
Realistically though since Creation does indeed exist, Creation depends on God the Father both as himself, and depends on him breathing out his Spirit and speaking his Word to form the creation. A good scriptural foundation for this is Genesis 1 and John 1.
That does not mean that God the Father depends on the Son or the Spirit though for as the Son himself says "My Father, who has given them unto me, is greater than all." (John 10:29). While the Father is greater than all and does not by necessity depend upon his Word that does not make the Trinity as fractions or separate entities, but as equals and wholly united for as the Son the Lord Jesus Christ goes on to say in the same chapter, he and his Father are one (John 10:30). Also because God the Father did ultimately decide to create Creation by speaking it into existence as recorded in the Torah, his Word and him are indeed one and they do exist and work together being one and the same (John 14). Praise the Lord God Almighty!
Last edited:
It is more like 1X1X1=1 if you are inclined to use a mathmatical formats. The reason we say that there are three persons in the Godhead, is because they all have attributes of a person, they each have a will, they each do something different in our salvation.
Our salvation is by the grace of Jesus, the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, II Corinthians 13:14 “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.”
It is worth noting that God describes heterosexual marriage
as being two becoming one
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh:
she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife:
and they shall be one flesh.
Genesis 2:
Of the body of Christ
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined
unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Ephesians 5:32
as being two becoming one
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh:
she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife:
and they shall be one flesh.
Genesis 2:
Of the body of Christ
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined
unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Ephesians 5:32
You are in gross error!
I suggest you might want to read the two blogs I linked too some posts back in this thread.