Is This a Hyper-Grace Doctrine of Men FORUM?

[Mitspa]

We're under the law of Christ. Whatever he says, we do.

So we are under the Law of Faith and Love? And the law of Moses cannot make a charge against us?

 

[Grace777x70]

here is the teaching to show what was written on our hearts..It is Jesus Himself..with the law of love, the law of liberty and the all time favorite..the law of the spirit of Life in Christ Jesus

What is the Law Written on Our Hearts?

Click to see the teaching if interested..

What is the Law Written on Our Hearts? – Escape to Reality

 

[Mitspa]

This is their constant straw-man false accusation, they claim we are under the law and against grace, neither however are true............

This is how the scriptures explain the grace issue ...you cannot talk about sin and grace and not explain it in a biblical way through the knowledge of the law... You cant have a biblical discussion and not use the BIBLE!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

So we are under the Law of Faith and Love? And the law of Moses cannot make a charge against us?

That about covers it.

 

[KennethC]

Post scripture ..not your opinion form by your legalist errors...

Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Ro 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

More scriptures again that does not speak of a one time repentance, all I ask for is to show teaching of a one time repentance being taught !!!

You won't find it because it doesn't exist in the scriptures, you would have to take scriptures out of context or that don't even apply to try and say it does.

Jesus gave a multiple repentance teaching in Luke 17 and again in Revelation 2.......

Hebrews 6 gives a situation where repentance would need to be done again.........

Paul in 2 Corinthians 7 speaks on godly sorrow will continue to lead us to repentance........

 

[BenFTW]

We deal now with grace as the "modern" church has re-envisioned it as this new "hyper-grace." God's grace is abounding yes, but when we look at Hyper-Grace supported by OSAS, we have a new doctrine of "grace." Hyper-Grace takes elements of the grace God gives us in the bible and shores it up with some doctrines of man. It mixes truth with some leaven and as a result we have a more subtle error entering our understanding of doctrine. It uses many words that are correct, but at the core premise we have an issue as it denies once again the scriptures showing our necessity to repent.

See, this continues to be a false allegation against believers who stand for God's grace that frees us from sin's dominion. Do people not listen to these grace preachers and just speak from biases or presupposed stances assuming what the other party is presenting without inquiry? I'm curious, where do people get this idea from? You know, what preacher did they listen to that they thought the preacher insisted on not repenting and indulging in sin?

 

[KennethC]

This is how the scriptures explain the grace issue ...you cannot talk about sin and grace and not explain it in a biblical way through the knowledge of the law... You cant have a biblical discussion and not use the BIBLE!

I use the bible all the time Mitspa, I guess you miss the constant number of scriptures I provide to make such a false claim???

I use the bible a lot in these discussions, but a long with scriptures we must break them down to some on what they are saying else wise people can make them say what ever they want.

 

[KennethC]

See, this continues to be a false allegation against believers who stand for God's grace that frees us from sin's dominion. Do people not listen to these grace preachers and just speak from biases or presupposed stances assuming what the other party is presenting without inquiry? I'm curious, where do people get this idea from? You know, what preacher did they listen to that they thought the preacher insisted on not repenting and indulging in sin?

Fine then here is a simple question for all those who speak on Grace only, please all answer simply yes or no:

Do you repent every time you sin ???

 

[sydlit]

Ken, with all the sincerity I can possibly muster, I can promise you, I COULD NEVER overcome certain habitual sins NO MATTER how hard I tried. I went through HORRIBLE experiences because of this wrong thinking. It was ONLY the Holy Spirit opening my eyes to the fact that it was IMPOSSIBLE for me to overcome them EVEN though I believed in Jesus sacrificial death on the cross and His subsequent resurrection.

The Lord upheld me during that awful time and showed me that JESUS had ALREADY won the battle I was still trying to fight. THAT IS THE THE TRUE GRACE THAT ENABLED ME TO STOP THOSE PERSISTENT SINS.Yes, I still sin, but it DOES NOT control or define me. Who I am in Christ does. I pray in Jesus name, that He would reveal this Truth to you as well.

Beautifully written. Thank you. And thank you for that last sentence written in prayer. To me, that's the kind of faith WITH works that's so needed. I think He IS revealing this to me little by little, and it's probably on me that it isn't alot by alot, lol, as I sometimes think I'm just afraid to fully believe it and grasp it in all it's glory. I know it's true, I know HE is true, I need to stop being so reluctant or resistant. Not sure what the blockage is. Except my own thick head!

WOW !!!

I do not say this often but I would warn you that is not the Holy Spirit speaking to you if the spirit told you it is impossible to overcome them.

That completely contradicts that Word of God that says to believers in Christ "ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE" !!!

Some spirit is trying to mislead you to think they are of Christ when they really aren't, because if it was the Holy Spirit He would not be telling you its impossible to overcome them. That is denying the working power of the Holy Spirit !!!

I would say you need some help and guidance from a better support group because any sinful behavior can be overcame !!!

I will pray for you to receive His Spirit and the proper guidance in this !!!

It seemed to me that what he was saying was in complete agreement with that scripture passage, if we read what Jesus said...with MEN it is impossible...(on our own, we can't be saved) ...but with GOD all things are possible (even the salvation of us sinners, who sometimes seem to compete with Paul to be 'Chief').

That means he don't really use the scriptures..just his opinion

Lol, that's just mean. Lol. My kind of humor. Glad you're a brother!

 

[KennethC]

That about covers it.

Well not exactly as that leaves it still open to what that Law of Faith and Love encompasses ???

This is why the 10 Commandments need to be studied in their proper form, because the 10 are contained as both the written Mosaic law and also as God's moral law !!!

 

[PennEd]

WOW !!!

I do not say this often but I would warn you that is not the Holy Spirit speaking to you if the spirit told you it is impossible to overcome them.

That completely contradicts that Word of God that says to believers in Christ "ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE" !!!

Some spirit is trying to mislead you to think they are of Christ when they really aren't, because if it was the Holy Spirit He would not be telling you its impossible to overcome them. That is denying the working power of the Holy Spirit !!!

I would say you need some help and guidance from a better support group because any sinful behavior can be overcame !!!

I will pray for you to receive His Spirit and the proper guidance in this !!!

Ken, I'm truly sorry you are not grasping what I'm saying. I said it was impossible for ME to overcome. That's the whole ball of wax Ken. THAT'S where you're stumbling over and over and over. IT IS NOT YOU that can overcome sin. For us to even try is sinful. We MUST realize that JESUS overcame and defeated sin and HIS imputed righteousness to us through what HE DID, and who HE IS is what overcomes the sin. This realization, given by the Holy Spirit, is what will enable US to freely reject the sinful nature.

 

[Grace777x70]

Hebrews 6 is a beautiful chapter on the grace of God.....I love that chapter...

Heb 6:4-8 talks about those that reject Jesus sacrifice...the people that choose not to believe in Jesus' sacrifice for them ..then in verse 9 it talks about us believers..

Hebrews 6:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way.

Here the author of Hebrews is speaking to the "Beloved"..that is us Christians that have accepted Jesus as our sacrifice...and he talks about "things that accompany salvation"

He wanted them to know that the verses 4-8 was not for them..which is why he said.."..though we are speaking in this way."

He didn't want them to put themselves - the true believers in that category.

Hebrews 6 is a beautiful chapter about the love and grace of Christ for us believers...not so good for those depending on the temple system.

 

[Mitspa]

That about covers it.

Man that sounds like hyper grace ... so what part of faith working by love leaves anything undone? And is that not obedience from the heart (law written upon the heart) the New Testament clearly teaches?

 

[KennethC]

Beautifully written. Thank you. And thank you for that last sentence written in prayer. To me, that's the kind of faith WITH works that's so needed. I think He IS revealing this to me little by little, and it's probably on me that it isn't alot by alot, lol, as I sometimes think I'm just afraid to fully believe it and grasp it in all it's glory. I know it's true, I know HE is true, I need to stop being so reluctant or resistant. Not sure what the blockage is. Except my own thick head!

It seemed to me that what he was saying was in complete agreement with that scripture passage, if we read what Jesus said...with MEN it is impossible...(on our own, we can't be saved) ...but with GOD all things are possible (even the salvation of us sinners, who sometimes seem to compete with Paul to be 'Chief').


Lol, that's just mean. Lol. My kind of humor. Glad you're a brother!

That is not what he said though as he said the Holy Spirit told him it was impossible to overcome his sins, that is not what the Word of God says to believers who have the Holy Spirit.

Therefore the spirit if it is the Holy Spirit abiding in us would not be telling us it is still impossible, He would instead say don't worry I will help you get through this and overcome this sin/s.

The Holy Spirit does this to me all the time when I get down in my thinking or think there is no way I will be able to do this, He tells me relax and sit back and He will take care of it and I will be able by Him to overcome and make it through !!!

He is so wonderful !!!

 

[Mitspa]

Ken, I'm truly sorry you are not grasping what I'm saying. I said it was impossible for ME to overcome. That's the whole ball of wax Ken. THAT'S where you're stumbling over and over and over. IT IS NOT YOU that can overcome sin. For us to even try is sinful. We MUST realize that JESUS overcame and defeated sin and HIS imputed righteousness to us through what HE DID, and who HE IS is what overcomes the sin. This realization, given by the Holy Spirit, is what will enable US to freely reject the sinful nature.

We all understood what you was saying.... Kenneth did too, but his pride is so great he cannot admit it.

 

[Grace777x70]

A Christian would never have to even see the 10 commandments at all to live the Christian life.....or even know that they existed...we live by His life in us manifesting in and through us...we have nothing to do with the 10 commandments It is by Christ's life that live now..

Well not exactly as that leaves it still open to what that Law of Faith and Love encompasses ???

This is why the 10 Commandments need to be studied in their proper form, because the 10 are contained as both the written Mosaic law and also as God's moral law !!!

 

[Mitspa]

Well not exactly as that leaves it still open to what that Law of Faith and Love encompasses ???

This is why the 10 Commandments need to be studied in their proper form, because the 10 are contained as both the written Mosaic law and also as God's moral law !!!

What do you mean Gods Moral law as if that different than the Ten Commandments?? Where is that written?

 

[KennethC]

Ken, I'm truly sorry you are not grasping what I'm saying. I said it was impossible for ME to overcome. That's the whole ball of wax Ken. THAT'S where you're stumbling over and over and over. IT IS NOT YOU that can overcome sin. For us to even try is sinful. We MUST realize that JESUS overcame and defeated sin and HIS imputed righteousness to us through what HE DID, and who HE IS is what overcomes the sin. This realization, given by the Holy Spirit, is what will enable US to freely reject the sinful nature.

If I misread what you said then I apologize, because the way I took it is from you saying the Holy Spirit said that to you.

The Holy Spirit would not say that, instead He would say don't worry I am with you now and with My help you can overcome any sinful deeds you are walking in !!!

His imputed righteousness will show out in our actions as we grow and mature in the faith, and thus sinning less and less will become the new normal in our lives.......

This is not something that is just imputed to us inwardly but we remain the same on the outside, and who told you to even try is sin ???

That is not what the Apostle Paul said as he said we are to strive and labor in the faith to walk appropriately to the calling !!!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

A Christian would never have to even see the 10 commandments at all to live the Christian life.....or even know that they existed...we live by His life in us manifesting in and through us...we have nothing to do with the 10 commandments It is by Christ's life that live now..

The 10 commandments are not contrary to Christ in the least. He that walks in Christ fulfills the righteous effect of those commandments.

 

[Mitspa]

More scriptures again that does not speak of a one time repentance, all I ask for is to show teaching of a one time repentance being taught !!!

You won't find it because it doesn't exist in the scriptures, you would have to take scriptures out of context or that don't even apply to try and say it does.

Jesus gave a multiple repentance teaching in Luke 17 and again in Revelation 2.......

Hebrews 6 gives a situation where repentance would need to be done again.........

Paul in 2 Corinthians 7 speaks on godly sorrow will continue to lead us to repentance........

Repent from what? If God says He will not impute sin? The only repentance needed is to believe the good news...

Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Ro 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.