Is this the lie that started many false teachings?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,947
1,872
113
#81
w
Nothing suggests it's gonna be "spiritual" instead of "physical". If it was just spiritual, then it was already spiritually desolate. Also how about "fall by the edge of the sword" and "led away captive into all nations"? Is Russia or China or the EU gonna invade Israel?
Amen, we can't spiritualise prophecy. That takes away the purpose for which prophesy was given.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,947
1,872
113
#82
Actually He did. "Abomination of desolation" is a reference of Daniel 11:31 - "And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation." Unless you believe in the "Third Temple" political thriller, there's neither daily sacrifice nor "sanctuary fortress” in modern day Israel.
there was no AOD in 70 AD.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,947
1,872
113
#83
Defiling the sanctuary is not tearing it apart. Again we see a spiritual desolation taking place.
The AOD is a physical desolation. It occures when an idle or unclean thing is placed in the holy place.

Jesus told the generation that will witness this, When you see the AOD STANDING in the holy place...
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,947
1,872
113
#85
I believe it is a metaphor. The sanctuary is in a temple and we are that temple:

1Co_3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
You can't symbolize prophecy. It takes away from the purpose.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,947
1,872
113
#86
This bears repeating:

He didn't answer when the temple would be destroyed. He didn't even talk about it on the mount at all. He was in charge of what he was going to teach, not the disciples.

The teacher decides what to teach. The students do not.
He answered the questions that they asked.

They asked when would these things be (when will the temple be destroyed)

He answered that question, as well as the other two
 
Jan 12, 2022
798
178
43
#88
I shall show you in the Bible the Lies that started literally every false teaching. that ever existed This is the Original Sin:

Genesis 3:1

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Amazingly the Woman did not fall for the First Lie cast at her by the Devil as indicated by her answer, she originally knew the Truth and was created just fine and perfect as a woman by God as indicated by her answer to the Devil.

Genesis 3:2-3

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

What happens next is the wicked old serpent twists and torments the Spirit, the Breath of Life given even to him and every living thing. What a significant and terrible event this is where the Spirit is twisted even further into the Second Lie.

Genesis 3:4

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

The woman is listening to the Devil at this point she gives no response, and into her mind he splits his Spirit into the third piece and forges the Third Lie and casts the Third Lie into the mind of the Woman.

Genesis 3:5

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Upon the Devil saying the Third Lie he has possessed Woman and this is indicated by how she looks now at the fruit in a false way and her thoughts which are now corrupted by Lies, woman's mind has been bent and Satan speaks directly into woman's mind now, and furthermore the first Woman of this chapter the mother of us all, she is now believing that the fruit actually will make her wise just like the Devil told her. Will she obey God's voice and commands made in the 2nd chapter before this all or to obey Satan's voice who has told her Three Lies to get her to eat the tree? The fateful moment.

Genesis 3:6

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Understand the Beginning to understand the End. Those Three Lies are still in the dragon's mouth. He repeated them to Lord Jesus and was rebuked. Satan will use them again at the End and give this his power of the Three Lies, his demonic breath, to the Man of Sin and the image of the beast kingdom which is established by that Man. Yet even this their great power be turned against them and the whole army of the Kingdom of Lies, including Satan himself, will be defeated by the Lord Jesus at the battle.

Revelation 16:13-14
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.


14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,947
1,872
113
#90
It was worse than that, the whole temple was burned to the ground without one stone left upon another, exactly as Jesus predicted.
Yes, the temple was destroyed and laid desolate

But that is not what an AOD is. It is an inclean things which renders a sanctuary desolate or unclean.

That did not happen in 70 AD.

No one saw what jesus said would be “standing in the holy place” in 70 ad
 
Feb 24, 2022
1,346
288
83
#91
Yes, the temple was destroyed and laid desolate

But that is not what an AOD is. It is an inclean things which renders a sanctuary desolate or unclean.

That did not happen in 70 AD.

No one saw what jesus said would be “standing in the holy place” in 70 ad
I wouldn’t believe it was 70AD based on Matthew’s and Mark’s versions of the Olivet Discourse, but I do believe it based on Luke’s.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,947
1,872
113
#92
I wouldn’t believe it was 70AD based on Matthew’s and Mark’s versions of the Olivet Discourse, but I do believe it based on Luke’s.
If you know what an abomination that makes desolate is. You would not believe based on historical evidence

The fact is. It never happened.

The temple was destroyed.. Thats not an abominable thing placed in a holy place.

Look at what Antiochus epiphanies did as an example. He slaughtered a pig (an unclean animal) in the holy of holies and rendered it desolate.
 
Feb 24, 2022
1,346
288
83
#93
If you know what an abomination that makes desolate is. You would not believe based on historical evidence

The fact is. It never happened.

The temple was destroyed.. Thats not an abominable thing placed in a holy place.

Look at what Antiochus epiphanies did as an example. He slaughtered a pig (an unclean animal) in the holy of holies and rendered it desolate.
"FOR the overspreading of abomination HE shall make it desolate", that indicates even without a graven image of any foreign deity, ABOMINATION was ALREADY in there, the religious leaders were ALREADY guilty of idolatry, and FOR that, it shall be made desolate as God's judgement, those 40 years or so after the crucifixion till 70AD was just probation.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,947
1,872
113
#94
"FOR the overspreading of abomination HE shall make it desolate", that indicates even without a graven image of any foreign deity, ABOMINATION was ALREADY in there, the religious leaders were ALREADY guilty of idolatry, and FOR that, it shall be made desolate as God's judgement, those 40 years or so after the crucifixion till 70AD was just probation.
The word translated abomination in the hebrew is an unclean thing, or an idol. Or something that makes or renders something unclean.

Jesus told them that they will see it standing in the holy place.

This was not even possible in 70 ad. As no one outside of the temple could see inside the holy of holies.

He also said when they see it. To run, for then their will be great tribulation such as never has been seen, before or after. And his return will put an end to it.

There has been far greater tribulations that 70 AD. WW1 and WW2 are just 2 examples.

And jesus has not yet returned.
 
Feb 24, 2022
1,346
288
83
#95
The word translated abomination in the hebrew is an unclean thing, or an idol. Or something that makes or renders something unclean.

Jesus told them that they will see it standing in the holy place.

This was not even possible in 70 ad. As no one outside of the temple could see inside the holy of holies.

He also said when they see it. To run, for then their will be great tribulation such as never has been seen, before or after. And his return will put an end to it.

There has been far greater tribulations that 70 AD. WW1 and WW2 are just 2 examples.

And jesus has not yet returned.
There's just no other explanation for Luke 21:20-24. There could be a lot of confusion over the theological term of AoD, but there's no confusion over "Jerusalem surrounded by armies." Jesus could not be contradicting himself. The only conclusion is 70AD. My point is that the Olivet Discourse was about BOTH 70AD and the Great Tribulation. You know, the disciples thought those are the SAME event taking place at the same time, and sadly, about 2000 years later many folks around here are making the same mistake.
 
Jul 24, 2021
494
78
28
#96
With the advent of the printing press in the 15th century, and the resulting explosion of Bibles accessible in the common language from Protestant sources, it became readily apparent to those who could now study the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation in particular, that Bible prophecy identified by symbols a persecuting apostate entity generally known as antichrist.

The Catholic Church was losing its hold on people and protestants were rising.....

Francisco Ribera (1537-1591) was a Jesuit doctor of theology, born in Spain, who began writing a lengthy (500 page) commentary in 1585 on the book of Revelation (Apocalypse) titled In Sacrum Beati Ioannis Apostoli, & Evangelistiae Apocalypsin Commentarij, and published it about the year 1590. He died in 1591 at the age of fifty-four, so he was not able to expand on his work or write any other commentaries. In order to remove the Catholic Church from consideration as the antichrist power, Ribera proposed that the first few chapters of the Apocalypse applied to ancient pagan Rome, and the rest he limited to a yet future period of 3 1/2 literal years, immediately prior to the second coming. During that time, the Roman Catholic Church would have fallen away from the pope into apostasy.
So, according to Ribera, the 1260 days and 42 months and 3 1/2 times of prophecy were not 1260 years, but a literal 3 1/2 years, and therefore none of the book of Revelation had any application to the middle ages or the papacy, but to the future, to a period immediately prior to the second coming, hence the name Futurism.
The Jesuit Inspired Futurist Lie Spreads To America's Protestant Seminaries = many false teachings today...
God is proactively prejudging those who do not obey the truth. This is consistent with the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit - the promoting the falling away of others.

Consider
2 Thess 2:11And for this cause God shall send(a) them strong(b) delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

(a) Usage: I send, transmit, permit to go, put forth.
Strong's Concordance 3992. pempó
b. to send (thrust or insert) a thing into another: Revelation 14:15, 18 (Aelian hist. an. 12, 5); τίνι τί εἰς τό with an inf, 2 Thessalonians 2:11.

(b) Usage: working, action, productive work, activity; in the NT, confined to superhuman activity.
Strong's Concordance 1753. energeia

It is not just God Permitting a delusion, but Augmenting it so it can be Condemned.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,947
1,872
113
#97
There's just no other explanation for Luke 21:20-24.
There is no AOD in Luke 21. Luke 21 is Jesus answer as to when there will no no stone left.

There could be a lot of confusion over the theological term of AoD, but there's no confusion over "Jerusalem surrounded by armies." Jesus could not be contradicting himself. The only conclusion is 70AD. My point is that the Olivet Discourse was about BOTH 70AD and the Great Tribulation. You know, the disciples thought those are the SAME event taking place at the same time, and sadly, about 2000 years later many folks around here are making the same mistake.
The confusion is when one tries to take an event that happens in 70 AD. and tries to insert an abomination of desolation into the context. when it is not there.
 
Feb 24, 2022
1,346
288
83
#98
There is no AOD in Luke 21. Luke 21 is Jesus answer as to when there will no no stone left.


The confusion is when one tries to take an event that happens in 70 AD. and tries to insert an abomination of desolation into the context. when it is not there.
Matt. 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 are the same Olivet Discourse. If Luke 21 is Jesus's answer as to when there will not one stone left which was 70AD, when they saw the siege, run for the mountains; while in Matthew and Mark it was called AoD, when they saw that, run for the mountains; those two are the same. Luke's version complemented Matthew's and Mark's with some specifics to clear it out.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,947
1,872
113
#99
Matt. 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 are the same Olivet Discourse. If Luke 21 is Jesus's answer as to when there will not one stone left which was 70AD, when they saw the siege, run for the mountains; while in Matthew and Mark it was called AoD, when they saw that, run for the mountains; those two are the same. Luke's version complemented Matthew's and Mark's with some specifics to clear it out.
It was not called the AOD. The is the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple

The AOD is only mentioned in Matt and Mark, and is a seperate event. One which occurs right before the return of Christ.

You have not answered once what it is THEY would see standing in the Holy Place.. And how this occured in 70 AD.

Matt 24:
15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),

Mark 13: 14 “So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ [f]spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not” (let the reader understand)

and also why is he directing his words to the reader now. And not to the disciples themselves?

And can you explain the word abomination (Bdelygma) which means an abomination which desolates. A detestable thing, An Idol. or unclean thing. can ever be translated a destruction by an army?
 
Feb 24, 2022
1,346
288
83
And can you explain the word abomination (Bdelygma) which means an abomination which desolates. A detestable thing, An Idol. or unclean thing. can ever be translated a destruction by an army?
Can you explain what Luke 21:20-24 was all about? Jesus answered two questions, but He only gave ONE Olivet Discourse, not two. "Let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains" is the same instruction that appeared in all three accounts.