Is this the lie that started many false teachings?

[TMS]

To claim that the Antichrist has been around since around 400 AD (when the papacy was fully established under Leo the Great) is to make a mockery out of Bible prophecy. God has severely limited his reign to just the first half of Daniel's 70th week (7 years). This is when Satan has complete control of all the inhabitants of the world and insists on the application of the Mark of the Beast.

1Jn_2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn_4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

 

[ewq1938]

“”Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!“” - John 1:29

You're in denial.

No you are. That only means he takes sin away when one repents. The people of the world are still sinning and in need of forgiveness through repentance.

1Jn_1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

No you are. That only means he takes sin away when one repents. The people of the world are still sinning and in need of forgiveness through repentance.

1Jn_1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

The penalty of sin was paid in full, the power of sin remains as long as we still live, that's what it means in 1 John 1:18.

 

[TMS]

Definitions - How do you interpret prophesies ....?
Preterism: The apocalyptic-prophetical hermeneutic where the prophecies under consideration are viewed as fulfilled close to and around the day of the original writer. Preterism is an approach that views the fulfillment of Revelation’s prophecies as having occurred already, in what is now the ancient past.

Futurism: The apocalyptic-prophetical hermeneutic where the prophecies under consideration are viewed as fulfilled in the far future during the biblical end times – far removed from the original writer’s day. Futurism is projecting most of Revelation (4–22) into future history.

Historicism: The apocalyptic-prophetical hermeneutic where the prophecies under consideration are viewed as fulfilled throughout history, from the original writer’s day to the climax of the biblical end times. A “Classical Protestant interpretation” which sees Revelation as “a prewritten record of the course of history from the time of John to the end of the world.” Or, as Gulley (2016:22) notes, it is a panoramic view of “the unfolding of history as one goes through the book” of Revelation.

Can you see how limiting 2 of these views are (Forcing you to look in one direction). You can force the events into the past and future, or you can let them fit were as they fit.

God has a way of causing things to be repeated, and having a dual application... The flood was the end of the world at that time for millions of people, and the end is coming again. When Jesus talked about the destruction of Jerusalem it had a dual application with the end of the world.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

God has a way of causing things to be repeated, and having a dual application... The flood was the end of the world at that time for millions of people, and the end is coming again. When Jesus talked about the destruction of Jerusalem it had a dual application with the end of the world.

I said this many times that almost 100% of the scenery in Revelation is borrowed from the OT, mostly the prophecy books, but also some references from other books. Revelation is like an Avenger movie as the FINALE, a hodgepodge of all the superheroes from previous Marvel movies; in this movie, all the loose ends were tied, all the mysteries were revealed. If you have never watched any of the previous movies, you'd be totally clueless. You'd be overwhelmed by the razzle-dazzle and yet without knowing what you see.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

“”Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!“” - John 1:29

You're in denial.

This (above) was to this (below)

I don't agree. None of those things have been accomplished yet. "and to make an end of sins" People sin every day! The end of sin only comes in the New Heaven and new Earth.

Which was itself to your post @#138

Yes, but that's not part of the 70 weeks prophecy. All six objectives in Dan. 9:24 were accomplished. When He returns He will judge the world.

So your @#138 (above quoted was to this post @#137

It isn't fully finished because there is the second coming, resurrection and rapture right?

I don't think it would be presumptuous to say that on these posts alone you are hyper preterit in your eschatological doctrine. What do you say?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I don't think it would be presumptuous to say that on these posts alone you are hyper preterit in your eschatological doctrine. What do you say?

Just because I believe this one prophecy of 70 weeks is fulfilled doesn't mean all the other prophecies have been fulfilled, otherwise I wouldn't have said "When He returns He will judge the world." Out of the entire book of Daniel this prophecy is the only one that predicts Jesus's ministry and crucifixion. Whatever camp you're in, you don't insert the Antichrist into a particular prophecy about Jesus Christ.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

Just because I believe this one prophecy of 70 weeks is fulfilled doesn't mean all the other prophecies have been fulfilled, otherwise I wouldn't have said "When He returns He will judge the world." Out of the entire book of Daniel this prophecy is the only one that predicts Jesus's ministry and crucifixion. Whatever camp you're in, you don't insert the Antichrist into a particular prophecy about Jesus Christ.

You didn't answer the question. You simply deflected my question. Perhaps I should say that I have read all of your posts beginning with this one @#1 - your very first post.

In so far as it is reasonable to take anothers' words and then ask a question to them - I assume you can answer the question plainly. Is that so or not?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

You didn't answer the question. You simply deflected my question. Perhaps I should say that I have read all of your posts beginning with this one @#1 - your very first post.

In so far as it is reasonable to take anothers' words and then ask a question to them - I assume you can actually answer the question plainly. Is that so or not?

NO. I’m a post-trib pre-millennial futurist.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

NO. I’m a post-trib pre-millennial futurist.

Right - So there is a need to establish why you take the Darby position to be heretical and thereby harmful to the churches. Of course you have implied what your answer would be in your post @#147 when you said, "Whatever camp you're in, you don't insert the Antichrist into a particular prophecy about Jesus Christ.

That aside - the term futurist in your designation of yourself, eschatologically, seems somewhat American in its cultural usage of the term. I find that trying to imbibe American terms is almost always at odds with the biblical theatre of eschatological and therefore prophetic realities. And that removes Daniel's 70th week from any need to be viewed in any other way than complete in time and place.

I don't see America having any part in end time eschatology. Period. That doesn't say much about what I do believe - but at least it makes your position more tenable and easily digested as a device to make separations.

From reading your posts I have taken you to mean that in truth the only real event that is to take place is the second coming of the Lord with the preceding rapture of the saints. In simple terms that would NOT be a lie - at least if it did not mean that there would not be a great tribulation and 42 months to mark its boundary. Do you say that there will be no great tribulation as defined by a measure of time - cut short?

 

[Nehemiah6]

1Jn_2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 1Jn_4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

To say that many antichrists have been around since the time of the apostles does not negate the fact that there will be ONE Man of Sin, the Son of Perdition, the Beast, the Little Horn, the Prince that Shall Come, the Ultimate Antichrist, the Arch Blasphemer of God.

Indeed, every person who denies or attacks the doctrine of Christ is an antichrist. And there are many who do just that.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Right - So there is a need to establish why you take the Darby position to be heretical and thereby harmful to the churches. Of course you have implied what your answer would be in your post @#147 when you said, "Whatever camp you're in, you don't insert the Antichrist into a particular prophecy about Jesus Christ.

That aside - the term futurist in your designation of yourself, eschatologically, seems somewhat American in its cultural usage of the term. I find that trying to imbibe American terms is almost always at odds with the biblical theatre of eschatological and therefore prophetic realities. And that removes Daniel's 70th week from any need to be viewed in any other way than complete in time and place.

I don't see America having any part in end time eschatology. Period. That doesn't say much about what I do believe - but at least it makes your position more tenable and easily digested as a device to make separations.

From reading your posts I have taken you to mean that in truth the only real event that is to take place is the second coming of the Lord with the preceding rapture of the saints. In simple terms that would NOT be a lie - at least if it did not mean that there would not be a great tribulation and 42 months to mark its boundary. Do you say that there will be no great tribulation as defined by a measure of time - cut short?

Oh yes, good ole Uncle Sam definitely has a role to play at the end times. The Antichrist wouldn't have such power to rule the whole world without getting it from America. Just take a few examples of what he's able to do:

Making fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men (Rev. 13:13) like Elijah. Hello, bomb; hello missile; hello nuke; who invented and manufactured these WMD?

Granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should speak (Rev. 13:15); that's a counterfeit of how God breathed life into Adam, and now Satan is granted power to do that! How does it do that? Hmmm, does genetic engineering ring a bell? That's the power to tamper with human DNA!

Then there're those merchants who've gotten filthy rich by doing global trade by the sea, almost the entire chapter 18 is dedicated to them; they trade all kinds of merchandises - including SLAVES (Rev. 18:13)! And more importantly, you can see their value system, that they're lamenting from a distancing over the fall of Babylon because nobody buys their damn stuffs anymore! The same value system is reflected in the boast of the Laodicea church, the only church that dares to boast before the Lord - "I am RICH, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing!" I wonder where this kind of value comes from.

And here the best one - "By your sorcery all the nations were deceived!" The word "sorcery" in Greek is pharmakeia, that's where the English words "pharmacy' or"pharmaceutical" come from. I think we don't need another reminder of the almighty Big Pharma at this place, do we?

And all of these are just precursors to condition the sheeple and to prepare for the final Antichrist. As you can see this is how prophecy works. You know they're gonna come to pass sometime in the future, you can figure out how to interpret them based on the clues from other contents in the bible, but in reality they're still a big mystery until you see these signs of times with your own eyes.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

Oh yes, good ole Uncle Sam definitely has a role to play at the end times. The Antichrist wouldn't have such power to rule the whole world without getting it from America. Just take a few examples of what he's able to do:

Making fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men (Rev. 13:13) like Elijah. Hello, bomb; hello missile; hello nuke; who invented and manufactured these WMD?

Granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should speak (Rev. 13:15); that's a counterfeit of how God breathed life into Adam, and now Satan is granted power to do that! How does it do that? Hmmm, does genetic engineering ring a bell? That's the power to tamper with human DNA!

Then there're those merchants who've gotten filthy rich by doing global trade by the sea, almost the entire chapter 18 is dedicated to them; they trade all kinds of merchandises - including SLAVES (Rev. 18:13)! And more importantly, you can see their value system, that they're lamenting from a distancing over the fall of Babylon because nobody buys their damn stuffs anymore! The same value system is reflected in the boast of the Laodicea church, the only church that dares to boast before the Lord - "I am RICH, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing!" I wonder where this kind of value comes from.

And here the best one - "By your sorcery all the nations were deceived!" The word "sorcery" in Greek is pharmakeia, that's where the English words "pharmacy' or"pharmaceutical" come from. I think we don't need another reminder of the almighty Big Pharma at this place, do we?

And all of these are just precursors to condition the sheeple and to prepare for the final Antichrist. As you can see this is how prophecy works. You know they're gonna come to pass sometime in the future, you can figure out how to interpret them based on the clues from other contents in the bible, but in reality they're still a big mystery until you see these signs of times with your own eyes.

American madness. Stick to the Marvel comic. At least that's amusing.

@#145

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

American madness. Stick to the Marvel comic. At least that's amusing.

@#145

You said America will have no part in end time eschatology, I challenged it.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

You said America will have no part in end time eschatology, I challenged it.

Do you imagine that these things are mere ideas to be expressed like infants in a class room?

Challenge all you desire to challenge - just don't anticipate that anyone outside the USA will be easily given to your challenges. Sam is no uncle of mine.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Do you imagine that these things are mere ideas to be expressed like infants in a class room?

Challenge all you desire to challenge - just don't anticipate that anyone outside the USA will be easily given to your challenges. Sam is no uncle of mine.

No uncle of mine either. I'm no fan of any of these madness, but there they are, everywhere you go, all these madness right in your face. I am but a messenger who tries to make some sense of it.

 

[TMS]

And all of these are just precursors to condition the sheeple and to prepare for the final Antichrist. As you can see this is how prophecy works. You know they're gonna come to pass sometime in the future, you can figure out how to interpret them based on the clues from other contents in the bible, but in reality they're still a big mystery until you see these signs of times with your own eyes.

God’s Word gives us nine characteristics of the antichrist in Daniel 7 so we can be certain of his identity. And even though some might find these truths painful, we must be honest enough to accept them as His revealed will.

A. The little horn would come “up among them”—that is, from among the 10 horns that were the kingdoms of Western Europe (Daniel 7:8). So it would be a little kingdom somewhere in Western Europe.
B. It would have a man at its head who could speak for it (Daniel 7:8).
C. It would pluck out or uproot three kingdoms (Daniel 7:8).
D. It would be different from the other 10 kingdoms (Daniel 7:24).
E. It would make war with and persecute the saints (Daniel 7:21, 25).
F. It would emerge from the pagan Roman Empire—the fourth kingdom (Daniel 7:7, 8).
G. God’s people (the saints) would “be given into his hand” for “a time and times and half a time” (Daniel 7:25).
H. It would “speak great words against” or blaspheme God (Daniel 7:25 KJV). In Revelation 13:5, the Bible says the same power speaks “great things and blasphemies.”
I. It would “intend to change times and law” (Daniel 7:25).

Don’t forget—all these identification points come directly from the Bible. They are not some human opinion or speculation. Historians could tell you quickly what power is being described, because these points fit only one power—the papacy.

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

America will cause the world to worship the first beast (the papacy).

 

[ewq1938]

America will cause the world to worship the first beast (the papacy).

The beast is not the papacy nor will America make anyone worship anything in relation to Revelation's events.

The beast is a global empire that one person will be ruling from.

 

[TMS]

The beast is not the papacy nor will America make anyone worship anything in relation to Revelation's events.

The beast is a global empire that one person will be ruling from.

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

The first beast of Rev 13 is clearly the papacy, It is gaining global power and a man is the head of it (pope).

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

God’s Word gives us nine characteristics of the antichrist in Daniel 7 so we can be certain of his identity. And even though some might find these truths painful, we must be honest enough to accept them as His revealed will.

A. The little horn would come “up among them”—that is, from among the 10 horns that were the kingdoms of Western Europe (Daniel 7:8). So it would be a little kingdom somewhere in Western Europe.
B. It would have a man at its head who could speak for it (Daniel 7:8).
C. It would pluck out or uproot three kingdoms (Daniel 7:8).
D. It would be different from the other 10 kingdoms (Daniel 7:24).
E. It would make war with and persecute the saints (Daniel 7:21, 25).
F. It would emerge from the pagan Roman Empire—the fourth kingdom (Daniel 7:7, 8).
G. God’s people (the saints) would “be given into his hand” for “a time and times and half a time” (Daniel 7:25).
H. It would “speak great words against” or blaspheme God (Daniel 7:25 KJV). In Revelation 13:5, the Bible says the same power speaks “great things and blasphemies.”
I. It would “intend to change times and law” (Daniel 7:25).

Don’t forget—all these identification points come directly from the Bible. They are not some human opinion or speculation. Historians could tell you quickly what power is being described, because these points fit only one power—the papacy.

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

America will cause the world to worship the first beast (the papacy).

You've overestimated the papacy. It doesn't have authority over the global population, the world is much bigger than the peninsula of western Europe.