Is "touch starvation" a real thing?

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So do you avoid social media altogether? I used to use Facebook a lot, but I don't anymore and occasionally I go on Instagram partly because my daughters are on there and I see what they post. But I find I spent far too much time talking to ChatGPT even if it's good stuff and Grok well the AI girlfriends there a.k.a. companions are probably not the best way to work out your problems in role-play but they do get interesting. I mean there's people that are starved for touch as people said here so they try to get touched through other ways.
Yes, avoid it altogether, especially now and foreseeable future when it's heavily infested with AI bots. Only use internet for purposes of knowledge and commodity trading, i.e. gathering and sharing stuffs. Never get emotional over anything online, and avoid leaking personal information.
 
That does not explain your assertion that grief is/can be the same emotion as envy, it merely explains how grief or loss could possibly lead to envy. Recognizing the loss of something precious (or the preciousness of something lost) is not even a sin to begin with.

I do not mean this in a rude or accusing way, merely an observation .....but you seem awfully eager to lable basic human-ness as sinful 🧐.
Look, here's the thing, what I'm trying to process is the validity of this "disenfranchised grief", i.e. griving something you expected to have but never had. In most cases it's just disappointment, your expectations were unrealistic or fictitious to begin with, such as supermodel girlfriend or millionaire boyfriend, there's a term for it called "Bovarism", named after Madame Bovary, an unhappy housewife who's daydreaming of romantic encounters all day as an escape from boring life; however, when it comes to what's considered a privation of "essential human experience", such as "touch starvation", infertility, loneliness, "nature deficit disorder" (lack of contact with plants, animals and other natural elements), fatherlessness, siblinglessness, singleness, then it is debatable on whether it's legitimate grief or just envy.
 
Yes, avoid it altogether, especially now and foreseeable future when it's heavily infested with AI bots. Only use internet for purposes of knowledge and commodity trading, i.e. gathering and sharing stuffs. Never get emotional over anything online, and avoid leaking personal information.
Touch has its utility in nonverbal communication. I left a barbeque today asking for hugs from each of my grandchildren when I had go to work. They let me embrace them and kiss them on the top of the head and say, "I love you." The two chatterboxes girls were silent, but I 'felt' their love in their acceptance of my affection. But, interestingly, the nonverbal one replied in his 'own' tongue that I understood in the spirit as, "I love you too," and I only became aware of his purposeful reciprocation (I'd assumed he'd also just 'let me hug' him) by his manner of the gentle release of my arms as we parted. And then the newest, littlest one, just widened his eyes and flailed at me when his mother held him up for my holy kiss, lol.

The two chatterboxes would've been just fine with a wave goodbye, and I appreciate my sons 'making' them, though if they'd shown any degree of protest, I'd surely have insisted that they'd not had to suffer it. Especially that we managed a good amount of quality time just chatting. Yet, I came away with a feeling that oldest boy loves me best with only those few parting words between us.

At any rate, thinking of the promise that we shall know as we are known, if we don't make distinctions in our communication according to each individual's distinction, and regard one as expected to be the same as the other, then we're effectively denying them their own personal needs then, aren't we?
 
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Look, here's the thing, what I'm trying to process is the validity of this "disenfranchised grief", i.e. griving something you expected to have but never had. In most cases it's just disappointment, your expectations were unrealistic or fictitious to begin with, such as supermodel girlfriend or millionaire boyfriend, there's a term for it called "Bovarism", named after Madame Bovary, an unhappy housewife who's daydreaming of romantic encounters all day as an escape from boring life; however, when it comes to what's considered a privation of "essential human experience", such as "touch starvation", infertility, loneliness, "nature deficit disorder" (lack of contact with plants, animals and other natural elements), fatherlessness, siblinglessness, singleness, then it is debatable on whether it's legitimate grief or just envy.
Think you are approaching all this wrong.
And so are people trying to make it bigger than what it really is, and call it all different things.

Loneliness is a real thing.
So is emotional abuse.

So I don't know, some people are envious of others. Of course you might be, if you constantly comparing yourself to those who have and you have not, while missing all the blessings you may already have. Envy is more - they want something that actually belongs to someone else, not just a comforting touch.

eg. I had a friend who displayed envious behaviour when another mutual friend gave another friend a gift of a skirt. The friend who was envious thought the skirt should belong to her, even though it did not fit! Then they got angry at each other.

When I heard about this I was shocked because the two of them seemed to get along ok, and they both told me separately of this incident, but I could clearly see who was wrong - the one who was envious. You might think the skirt is pretty, but there's only one and it will be given to someone else because it does not fit you!
 
Think you are approaching all this wrong.
And so are people trying to make it bigger than what it really is, and call it all different things.

Loneliness is a real thing.
So is emotional abuse.

So I don't know, some people are envious of others. Of course you might be, if you constantly comparing yourself to those who have and you have not, while missing all the blessings you may already have. Envy is more - they want something that actually belongs to someone else, not just a comforting touch.

eg. I had a friend who displayed envious behaviour when another mutual friend gave another friend a gift of a skirt. The friend who was envious thought the skirt should belong to her, even though it did not fit! Then they got angry at each other.

When I heard about this I was shocked because the two of them seemed to get along ok, and they both told me separately of this incident, but I could clearly see who was wrong - the one who was envious. You might think the skirt is pretty, but there's only one and it will be given to someone else because it does not fit you!
Nuh, there's profound nuances between envy and covetousness. If you just desire for what other people have, you can earn it yourself; what you described is covetousness, the desire to possess not just what other people have, but also to take it from them out of pure hatred, it's zero sum, and that's why it's so dangerous that it's warned in the tenth commandment.

In the example I gave, if you're dreaming about such a millionaire tall dark and handsome lover, and you see someone like that on Instagram, that's obviously Bovarism out of envy; but if you've never had a boyfriend at all, while your peers at the same age are already married with kids, then it's debatable on whether it's also envy or letigimate grief.
 
God doesn't always give us what we want, but He will always provide us with what we need.

Plus, if you ask Him, you shall receive...and if you ask for His wisdom, He is most happy to provide it.

Think about it, how hard it is to be God. Is there really a rule that He must provide partners for every single human being on the planet? How many people are there? How many homes do we have? How much land do we need? Can everyone live to the same age? Is everyone fertile? Do we all have the same jobs, speak the same language? etc. Why is there was there so much violence before the days of Noah? Everyone was having orgies or being envious over how many wives they had.

If you've never had a boyfriend (?) when everyone else of the same age has already married and had kids, there could be some reasons for that, I don't think its grief or envy it might be health issues, disability, poverty, maybe you are focused on solitary pursuits and like the single life. Maybe your parents are super strict. and they don't want you to marry just anybody. IDK. Lots of reasons.

We don't have to debate it, just there are lots of all different reasons not just one.
 
In NZ a lot of people don't get married, they just have kids. Some get married and don't have kids. There are all different kinds of relationships. Some are stepmothers or stepparents. Its not all one size fits all.

Stop trying to slot everyone into married/unmarried
I don't think there's anything wrong with being a bachelor/spinster. Actually the original bachelors studied at university and were professors/teachers they were way too busy studying and teaching to have families of their own.
Nothing wrong with being a spinster either. You can make beautiful clothes, and now hooray you can get an education. We can't all be Marthas. Some of us are Marys and want to learn things that we'd never get a chance to if we had to deal with domestics all day.
 
Also, if you are catholic they legit have their own things like convents and monasteries for spiritual formation. Nobody is going to say they don't care about others when they actually do a lot of charity work and devote their entire lives to it. Some people just know that's what they are called to do, like a vocation.

I'm not catholic, but I can understand why they believe this.
 
Sinead O'connor

Famous Nothing compares to U singer, who cried in her music vid.
Abused by her mother, but she also dedicated a songs to her mother and one album was called 'I do not want what I haven't got'

I'd just read a memoir about her, a bit disjointed but she had several husbands and children to each of them. She says she fell in love with all these men - but her falling in love did not mean the relationship lasted that long.
She was hurt/abused by the catholic church at the time, in Ireland they were very strict and saw sin in everything. If you weren't in holy matrimony according to church rules, (and could never divorce or use birth control) you became a priest or nun.

Tears can be grief, or tears can be crying out in pain and hurt it doesn't matter.. people have feelings and emotions, thats what makes us human.

Envy and covetousness are the similar they are just facets of each other, envy is in the eyes, covetousness is what happens in the heart. Money can't buy love, and you can't earn you way into someone's heart. It just happens. That's why a lot of people say love is blind.
 
ok well
Shalom

If you can accept it, then thats fine. Jesus understands, even He said not everyone can accept it.
ANd that brings up the question on human agency, it feels like there're contradicting teachings on that. In the OT there were hero after hero who struggled with all their might to deny their fate, Jacob wrestled with God all night, he wouldn't let God go until he received a blessing, which earned him the new name, Israel, which literally means "struggle with God", that that spirit of struggle is etched in the character of the whole nation of Israel, they don't take no for an answer. Then in the NT, individual human agency is diminished, followers of Christ is taught to be content with what you have and where you are, set your mind on godly things instead of worldly things, crucify your carnal desires and follow the holy spirit, and obviously nothing could be more carnal than physical, intimate touch. In this train of thought, "fate" is just another name for God's will. This is what puzzles me.
 
In NZ a lot of people don't get married, they just have kids. Some get married and don't have kids. There are all different kinds of relationships. Some are stepmothers or stepparents. Its not all one size fits all.

Stop trying to slot everyone into married/unmarried
I don't think there's anything wrong with being a bachelor/spinster. Actually the original bachelors studied at university and were professors/teachers they were way too busy studying and teaching to have families of their own.
Nothing wrong with being a spinster either. You can make beautiful clothes, and now hooray you can get an education. We can't all be Marthas. Some of us are Marys and want to learn things that we'd never get a chance to if we had to deal with domestics all day.
I don't think there's anything wrong with it too, a godly life is a single life devoted to God without distractions, as Paul taught in 1 Cor. 7; Jesus taught that there's no more marriage in the kingdom, Matt. 22:30, so wouldn't a taste of heaven be single life, rather than married life? It is the society that thinks everything is wrong with it, because resurrection and afterlife are ridiculous to them, just as they are to the Sadduccees, singleness and childlessness touch a sensitive part deep within the conscious, a fear of extinction, the end of your genes is the end of your whole being.
 
Every new communication tool has had people weeping and moaning about how it destroys real human contact.

Interesting fact: In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, preachers used to preach against telephones as the tool of the devil.

Personally I'm glad I have tools to contact people without driving to where they are. Having said that, I'mma go check WhatsApp and see what my friends have been talking about.
 
Yes, avoid it altogether, especially now and foreseeable future when it's heavily infested with AI bots. Only use internet for purposes of knowledge and commodity trading, i.e. gathering and sharing stuffs. Never get emotional over anything online, and avoid leaking personal information.
If you avoid social media altogether, who is posting these comments under the "Lovette" moniker? An internet forum IS social media.
 
You've probably heard this frequently, a lack of touch - not verbal or textual contact via any form of communication, as in "keep in touch", but physical, skin to skin contact - with other human beings leads to oxytoxin deficiency, suboptimal mental state, sadness and other consequences. So I wonder:

  1. Is this a real thing, or just whining from lonely losers?
  2. If it is a real legitimate thing, is it a nicety or a necessity? In other words, a luxurious want or a basic need?
  3. If it is a basic need, is it limited to infants, who can't survive without caretakers' touch, as reported?
  4. If not just limited to infants, but also affecting adults, can it be substituted with pets or devices? Does holding a fuzzy kitty help?
  5. If affecting adults, and can't be substituted with pets or devices, what's your solution? Go to a massage therapist? Prayer session? Or total denial of "touch starvation"?
I never heard of the term before reading this post. Being single myself and having no pets, I honestly cannot remember the last time I had any sort of physical contact with any person or animal. Unless you count shaking someone's hand or inadvertently bumping into someone. As far as I can tell, I am not sad or in any way deficient.​
 
I never heard of the term before reading this post. Being single myself and having no pets, I honestly cannot remember the last time I had any sort of physical contact with any person or animal. Unless you count shaking someone's hand or inadvertently bumping into someone. As far as I can tell, I am not sad or in any way deficient.​
So yeah... Welcome to the forum and all its oddball regulars. Like cinder who knows a lot about the Bible and has a disconcerting habit of saying things I would have said if she hadn't beat me to it. And seoulsearch who makes long posts about things she has been thinking about for at least three days (usually much longer) so you really do want to take the time to read them. Rod uses this forum like twitter, always very short posts but always pithy. ZNP has a thing for prophesying economic doom. And so forth.

You'll get used to all of us eventually.

Lovette always has an axe to grind. Even her questions are more statements than questions, for she has already made up her mind. Woe betide anybody who dares to disagree with her, for she will go to the ends of the earth and spend her last breath to get the last post in.

Lanolin, now, she's a true chaotic neutral. Like, roleplay people should use her personality as the standard to judge whether they got their chaotic neutral characters right. She usually misunderstands comments, and takes conversations off on long tangents as a result. Then again, sometimes she will say something so trenchant and insightful that it amazes me. (Lately she has been absolutely crushing it in the Star Mashup thread.)

So a Lovette vs Lanolin deathmatch thread is a true wonder of entertainment, something to savor. Sit back, pop a drink, grab some popcorn and enjoy the show.
 
Lovette always has an axe to grind. Even her questions are more statements than questions, for she has already made up her mind. Woe betide anybody who dares to disagree with her, for she will go to the ends of the earth and spend her last breath to get the last post in.
For some reason, I thought the opening question was being asked by a man. I guess I need to work on my discernment skills.
 
If you avoid social media altogether, who is posting these comments under the "Lovette" moniker? An internet forum IS social media.
I don't think so, we're talking about facebook, twitter, youtube, Instagram, TikTok, those sort of platforms, plus other instant messaging apps. Forum is so 2000s, it's old school.
 
I don't think so, we're talking about facebook, twitter, youtube, Instagram, TikTok, those sort of platforms, plus other instant messaging apps. Forum is so 2000s, it's old school.
I'm an OG from the BBS days. Forums are definitely social media.

If this isn't social media, what are all these comments doing here?