It Is Important To Worship The Only True And Living GOD

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Walter

Well-known member
Jul 20, 2022
1,282
597
113
77
Washington
firstthings1sttab.tripod.com
#1

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,109
534
113
#2
A while back there has been some controversy about what you believe. I'm not sure what it was about so I want to ask you a question especially in view of what your posting here about the only true God.

Do you believe Jesus Christ is the true God along with His Father because they have the exact same nature? I am "NOT" saying there are two gods. There are two distinct persons who have the same nature per John 1:1.

In Him,
bluto
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,109
534
113
#4
Yes, I will say that the Scriptures can not be broken, but you are correct, I and My Father are One John 10:30
So just to be clear since you quoted John 10:30, how are the Father and the Son one according to the context of the verse? In what respect are the one?

In Him,
bluto
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
#5
Yes, I will say that the Scriptures can not be broken, but you are correct, I and My Father are One John 10:30
That does not answer the question. That is the spiritual reality of total harmony and unity and oneness between the Father and the Son. But are both the "only true God" (along with the Holy Spirit)?
 

Walter

Well-known member
Jul 20, 2022
1,282
597
113
77
Washington
firstthings1sttab.tripod.com
#6

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,109
534
113
#7
Why can't you explain it to me? There"s 50 websites to look at, which one would you pick? I ask because some of them disagree with each other.

Remember I said to read the context of John 10:30 which is the whole chapter. This is how you learn. You quote verses everyday for everyone's benefit yet you don't know what the mean yourself.

I'm not trying to be mean but just trying to get you educated and informed.

1Peter 3:15, but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence."

This takes time and hard work but it's worth it. Study to show thyself approved. 2 Timothy 2:15.

In Him,
bluto
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,279
29,554
113
#8
1Peter 3:15, but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone
who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence."

1 Peter 3:15
:)
 

Walter

Well-known member
Jul 20, 2022
1,282
597
113
77
Washington
firstthings1sttab.tripod.com
#9
Why can't you explain it to me? There"s 50 websites to look at, which one would you pick? I ask because some of them disagree with each other.

Remember I said to read the context of John 10:30 which is the whole chapter. This is how you learn. You quote verses everyday for everyone's benefit yet you don't know what the mean yourself.

I'm not trying to be mean but just trying to get you educated and informed.

1Peter 3:15, but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence."

This takes time and hard work but it's worth it. Study to show thyself approved. 2 Timothy 2:15.

In Him,
bluto
Sir, you don't even know me to say these things.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,314
3,618
113
#10
It's very difficult to get Walter to explain anything he believes; but this much I know for sure: He follows Herbert W. Armstrong and William F. Dankenbring. If you want to know what Walter believes, find out what these two believe and there ya go.

Walter has made it clear from his previous statements that he believes—in true Armstrongian fashion—that God and His word (Jesus) are one. He doesn't believe in the trinity. He believes the Holy Spirit is a "power" emanating from God, not the third person of the trinity.

Walter, does the New Testament ever refer to the Holy Spirit as "it?" If so, can you please tell me where?
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,109
534
113
#11
Sir, you don't even know me to say these things.
Yes, I do know you! My "trick knee," (my gift of discernment) knew something was amiss based on your obfuscation of your answers to direct questions. Brother ResidentAlien just confirmed it for me. And yes, I am well familiar with Armstrong's beliefs. He stated the Trinity is a satanic teaching. I'm also aware that many members left Armstrong's church and joined real Evangelical Churches. You should do the same. You might find the following article informative on what happened. https://www.equip.org/articles/the-worldwide-church-of-god-resurrected-into-orthodoxy/

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

Walter

Well-known member
Jul 20, 2022
1,282
597
113
77
Washington
firstthings1sttab.tripod.com
#12
Yes, I do know you! My "trick knee," (my gift of discernment) knew something was amiss based on your obfuscation of your answers to direct questions. Brother ResidentAlien just confirmed it for me. And yes, I am well familiar with Armstrong's beliefs. He stated the Trinity is a satanic teaching. I'm also aware that many members left Armstrong's church and joined real Evangelical Churches. You should do the same. You might find the following article informative on what happened. https://www.equip.org/articles/the-worldwide-church-of-god-resurrected-into-orthodoxy/

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
I have never been a member of H. Armstrong Ministry but was a member of W. Dankenbring, and we/myself wife and others were members of Triumph Prophetic Ministries, which has stopped, and No, Sir, you don't know us as you say you do.

Love, Walter
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,314
3,618
113
#13
I have never been a member of H. Armstrong Ministry but was a member of W. Dankenbring, and we/myself wife and others were members of Triumph Prophetic Ministries, which has stopped, and No, Sir, you don't know us as you say you do.

Love, Walter
Doesn't matter if you were ever a member of Armstrong's church or not, some of the things you say you believe are things he taught; and Dankenbring was a member of the Worldwide Church of God before he got railroaded out. Whether it's you, Armstrong, Dankenbring, or any of the many offshoots of the Worldwide Church of God, they're Judaizers all. The only difference is in what false doctrine each of you teaches.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
6,707
113
#14
I have never been a member of H. Armstrong Ministry but was a member of W. Dankenbring, and we/myself wife and others were members of Triumph Prophetic Ministries, which has stopped, and No, Sir, you don't know us as you say you do.

Love, Walter
People sometimes have a tendency to judge just about everyone else without considering what they are doing. If people knw the difference between being a true Jew and those of the assembly of Satan, they would not be so quick to use terms like Judaizes and worse. We must continue in patience praying for all souls, as I am certain you do. Meanwhile we will be dubbed the same as was our Savior, Jesus Yeshua, so rejoice, you must be on the right track.
 

Walter

Well-known member
Jul 20, 2022
1,282
597
113
77
Washington
firstthings1sttab.tripod.com
#15
People sometimes have a tendency to judge just about everyone else without considering what they are doing. If people knw the difference between being a true Jew and those of the assembly of Satan, they would not be so quick to use terms like Judaizes and worse. We must continue in patience praying for all souls, as I am certain you do. Meanwhile we will be dubbed the same as was our Savior, Jesus Yeshua, so rejoice, you must be on the right track.
Yes, JaumeJ, I agree, thank you.

Love, Walter
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,867
1,664
113
#16
Never heard of William Dankenbring so I looked him up. I wanted to know what he specifically thought about the trinity.
This is from his site (Wow! Holy early 90s webpage Batman!)

https://www.bible.ca/su-deity-christ.htm

From the link:

The Bible teaches that Jesus is one of three separate personal beings who are divine. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are equal and have always existed. The Bible view of the divinity of Christ is categorically different from all the above. We will one day share the divine pattern of moral conduct and be equal to God in righteousness but mankind will in no sense ever be considered divine or equal to God in nature. Jesus pro-existed His physical birth: Jn 1:15 + Lk 1:24-26; Jn 1:1. Jesus created ALL THINGS and therefore is not Himself created: Jn 1:3; Col 1:16,17; Heb 1:2,10. Rev 5:13,14 pictures a scene with all creation worshipping Jesus as God: Rev 5:13,14
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
#17
Doesn't matter if you were ever a member of Armstrong's church or not, some of the things you say you believe are things he taught; and Dankenbring was a member of the Worldwide Church of God before he got railroaded out. Whether it's you, Armstrong, Dankenbring, or any of the many offshoots of the Worldwide Church of God, they're Judaizers all. The only difference is in what false doctrine each of you teaches.
They were (or are) all connected, and have a mishmash of beliefs, where the true Gospel gets mixed up with beliefs and practices from the Old Covenant. So eventually they are Judaizers. It was Herbert W. Armstrong who was the main false teacher, but his teachings were subtle and he had a huge ministry. He also promoted "British Israelism". There were several splits within this denomination, each one claiming to be the true "Church of God".

The Philadelphia Church of God (Gerald Flurry) has this very subtle description of Christ: We believe Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah, the Christ, the divine Son of the living God, begotten of the Holy Spirit, born in the human flesh of the virgin Mary. Christ came to Earth the first time to qualify to replace Satan on the throne of the Earth (Matthew 4).

On a superficial reading it is all true (other than about replacing Satan). But they do not flatly say "Jesus is FULLY God and FULLY sinless Man at one and the same time. Jesus is the one true God with the Father and the Holy Spirit." But that is what the Bible says (in other words).
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,109
534
113
#18
People sometimes have a tendency to judge just about everyone else without considering what they are doing. If people knw the difference between being a true Jew and those of the assembly of Satan, they would not be so quick to use terms like Judaizes and worse. We must continue in patience praying for all souls, as I am certain you do. Meanwhile we will be dubbed the same as was our Savior, Jesus Yeshua, so rejoice, you must be on the right track.
First of all I did not mention anything about "Judaizers" and worse. Secondly, there's a big difference between "judging" others and "warning" others about false teachings. The Apostle Paul made this clear at a number of places in the New Testament. He even named names.

One place was at Acts 20:28-31, "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. (This is referring to Jesus Christ). Vs29, I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; vs30, and from among your own-selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. Vs31, "Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease admonish each one with tears."

So, Paul is explaining that the Church will not only be attacked from withing, but from without. Then the Apostle Paul at Galatians 1:6-9. "I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a DIFFERENT GOSPEL; vs7, which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to DISTORT the gospel of Christ."

Vs8, "But even though we, or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed." Vs9, "As we have said before, so I say AGAIN now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed." As a side note I am not one that goes around telling people they should be accursed.

The point of this little exercise is the fact that we are to warn others of false teachings. In fact in the Old Testament at Ezekiel 3:18, "When I say to the wicked, "You shall surely die'; and you do not warn him or speak out to warn the wicked from his wicked way that he may live, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand." And Paul again at Ephesians 5:11, "And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even EXPOSE THEM."

This is all very serious business and not to be taken lightly. Aaron56 at post #16 quoted the following in the very first sentence, "The Bible teaches that Jesus is one of three separate personal beings who are divine. " Automatically this statement should raise red flags in you mind. Why! Because the Trinity is not three separate beings who are diving. The correct way to put is that the Trinity is three DISTINCT persons who are the one God. This is why it's important to read the read the words of what people say and check them out to see if they are true.

Acts 17:11, "Now these were more noble minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, EXAMINING THE SCRIPTURES DAILY, TO SEE WHETHER THESE THINGS WERE SO OR TRUE." Lastly, what I say about someone and how I feel about them are two different things. It means I care more than you know!

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
6,707
113
#19
First of all I did not mention anything about "Judaizers" and worse. Secondly, there's a big difference between "judging" others and "warning" others about false teachings. The Apostle Paul made this clear at a number of places in the New Testament. He even named names.

One place was at Acts 20:28-31, "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. (This is referring to Jesus Christ). Vs29, I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; vs30, and from among your own-selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. Vs31, "Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease admonish each one with tears."

So, Paul is explaining that the Church will not only be attacked from withing, but from without. Then the Apostle Paul at Galatians 1:6-9. "I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a DIFFERENT GOSPEL; vs7, which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to DISTORT the gospel of Christ."

Vs8, "But even though we, or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed." Vs9, "As we have said before, so I say AGAIN now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed." As a side note I am not one that goes around telling people they should be accursed.

The point of this little exercise is the fact that we are to warn others of false teachings. In fact in the Old Testament at Ezekiel 3:18, "When I say to the wicked, "You shall surely die'; and you do not warn him or speak out to warn the wicked from his wicked way that he may live, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand." And Paul again at Ephesians 5:11, "And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even EXPOSE THEM."

This is all very serious business and not to be taken lightly. Aaron56 at post #16 quoted the following in the very first sentence, "The Bible teaches that Jesus is one of three separate personal beings who are divine. " Automatically this statement should raise red flags in you mind. Why! Because the Trinity is not three separate beings who are diving. The correct way to put is that the Trinity is three DISTINCT persons who are the one God. This is why it's important to read the read the words of what people say and check them out to see if they are true.

Acts 17:11, "Now these were more noble minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, EXAMINING THE SCRIPTURES DAILY, TO SEE WHETHER THESE THINGS WERE SO OR TRUE." Lastly, what I say about someone and how I feel about them are two different things. It means I care more than you know!

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
I was not addressing you, may you be blessed always.
 

montana123

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2021
858
286
63
#20
Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

People have to realize that the Son can be referred to as the man Christ Jesus.

I believe when Jesus said I and my Father are one he is referring to the Father and the man Christ Jesus in harmony which Jesus told Philip if he has seen Him then He has seen the Father.

People may believe in a God the Son, but the man Christ Jesus is called the Son like a saint is a son.

Jesus can speak as God or as a human for He is both.

When Jesus said the Son does not know the day and hour of the second coming He is speaking as the man Christ Jesus.

When Jesus said the Father is greater than me He is speaking as the man Christ Jesus.

When He prayed to the Father for the saints to have the same glory as Him, and behold His glory that He had in the beginning He is speaking as the man Christ Jesus which is for the saints to have a glorified body, and eternal life like the man Christ Jesus, and see Him sitting on the throne in heaven for only by a visible manifestation can we see God.

If Jesus were speaking of His glory as God the saints could not have that glory for God does not give His glory to anyone.

The Bible says that God calls things that have not happened yet, as though they already happened, for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future it is the same as it happened in the beginning for it will surely come to pass with no hindrance.

Which the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world.

And the prophets blood shed from the foundation of the world.

And Jesus is the beginning of creation although it did not happen until 4000 years later for this is speaking of the man Christ Jesus for Jesus as God has no beginning.

So Jesus can have glory in the beginning that He will receive in the future as the man Christ Jesus for God calls things that have not happened yet, as though they already happened.

Which all the works were finished from the foundation of the world, and the kingdom was prepared from the foundation of the world although Jesus told the disciples that He goes away to prepare that place.

People have to know when Jesus is speaking as God or as the man Christ Jesus.