It's time to wake Judaism up and get them Grafted back in.

[pittsburghjoe]

Was JESUS (Yeshua) concealed throughout the OT because the world would have ended without Gentiles having a chance of SALVATION, with an obvious Anointed Jewish King?

 

[pittsburghjoe]

“See! Your house is left to you desolate; for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”

satan knows this test isn't going to end until Israel calls out to JESUS (YESHUA).

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Did JESUS start Reigning in David's throne (Luke 1:32) after the 70 weeks of Daniel, because David's seat was on Mount Zion which represents GOD'S Kingdom?


Luke 1:32
He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Was Israel and babylon used as foreshadowing in the OT for the global battle in the New Testament?

 

[studentoftheword]

I say ---Judaism is a man made Religion like all other Religions and in my view Keeps the Jews in Bondage as does all religions ----

God made a Covenant with His Chosen Nation and in the last Days God keeps His Covenant Promise to His Chosen by sealing them and bringing them through the tribulation period unharmed ------God always keeps His promises and Covenants ---

Revelations 7 gives you that He seals His 144,000------ the 12 Tribes of Israel --all Jews today belong to one of these tribes and God knows what tribe they belong to even as many Jews say they don't know what tribe they belong to today ----

 

[DavidTree]

You can Anoint the things in The Holy of Holies inner room, but you can't Anoint The Holy of Holies Itself because it is GOD'S Presence. The SON of GOD, as GOD’S Presence as a Man on Earth, was Baptized and became Anointed.

Now Dear Friend, here is your challenge -
If you cannot anoint the Holy of Holies how then could Christ be anointed, if HE is the Holy of Holies???

 

[DavidTree]

I say ---Judaism is a man made Religion like all other Religions and in my view Keeps the Jews in Bondage as does all religions ----

God made a Covenant with His Chosen Nation and in the last Days God keeps His Covenant Promise to His Chosen by sealing them and bringing them through the tribulation period unharmed ------God always keeps His promises and Covenants ---

Revelations 7 gives you that He seals His 144,000------ the 12 Tribes of Israel --all Jews today belong to one of these tribes and God knows what tribe they belong to even as many Jews say they don't know what tribe they belong to today ----

Revelation chapter 7 does not speak of Jews of the flesh. It speaks of the Israel of God - find out who She is, according to Scripture.

Also, there is no rapture before the Tribulation and remember, we are only to believe the words that came out of the Mouth of God.

Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”

But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’

 

[DavidTree]

Just because "Messiah" and "Anointed" use the same root doesn't mean someone Anointed is automatically a Messiah.

If Jews understood this, they wouldn't be Jewish anymore after looking at Daniel 9:25-26.

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Just responding to your thread title - 'wake up Judaism and get them grafted back in".

God will not bring back to life what He has cursed = the works of the Law, and especially not Judaism as the Jews know it to be.

Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

It is only by and thru CHRIST that the blinded Jews of the flesh will be revived unto Life and grafted back in.

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! See! Your house is left to you desolate;
for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”

This awakening will come during the Day of Jacobs Trouble - at His Coming - to rescue them.

And it shall come to pass in all the land,”
Says the Lord,
“That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die,
But one-third shall be left in it:
I will bring the one-third through the fire,
Will refine them as silver is refined,
And test them as gold is tested.
They will call on My name,
And I will answer them.
I will say, ‘This is My people’;
And each one will say, ‘The Lord is my God.’ ”

 

[DavidTree]

1) The original Hebrew manuscripts have no vowels (the vowels represented by dots are interpolated). Much of the hidden dispute has been premised on how the vowels should be added as it changes the meaning in many cases.

2) I'm not sure why anyone should count Christianity as a collective of Gentiles. How awful to imply that all of the descendents of the orginal Jewish Christians somehow died out or didn't integrate and flourish in Christian society. Even if someone doesn't have the benefit of knowing their ancestry, chances are very high that if your family lines have been Christian for a very long time that you are also Israelite by birthright. The descendants of the early Jewish Christians didn't just disappear or magic away, they married with others of the church and continued Christian families. In Christianity, birthright isn't important, firstly because there is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christianity but also because not of Israel are Israel and the seed of the promise is counted through Christ. Calling all Christians Gentiles is hateful and yet it is a persistent narrative. The political state that calls itself Israel does not represent the priesthood of biblical Israel, Christ does. Christ is the head of the current priesthood and has not been replaced. Do Jews that were reborn into Christianity suddenly stop being part of Israel? Do their descendants stop being part of Israel? We might see this concept of "you no longer count as X after so many generations" but that is not inherently a Christian concept.

3) To understand why Talmudic Judaism rejects Christ, one needs look no further than the Talmud, which states that Jesus is a false prophet currently burning in boiling excrement. It is a common misconception that modern Rabbinic Judaism only follows the Old Testament and that their religious outlook could be understood and persuaded by only looking at the OT. It isn't true. They are a cousin religion that has their own New Testament in the form of the Talmud, a text that among other things teaches that one should treat outsiders unfairly and to never save them from danger unless it has a personal benefit. If that isn't a sign that the Talmud is wicked, I don't what would convince you otherwise. It is absolutely antiChristian. Why should anyone have reverence for a cousin that rejects God? We should have hope that they reject their wrongful ways and search for Christ to find salvation, not reverence for their rejection of God. They should be regarded like a cousin with bad habits that is going through rehab, not addressed like some royalty. We should appreciate that at some point in their lives they too may be called to Christ and join as brothers and sisters, but we should also accept that not all that call themselves Jews will be saved.

Islam also sees itself as Israel or the true Jews, the difference is that Moslems actually accept Jesus as the Messiah, born from a virgin. Islam just doesn't recognize Jesus Christ as God. We've even had a Moslem join the forum at one point and he called himself a Messianic Jew. Christianity has more in common with Islam than it does with modern Rabbinic Judaism (Talmudic Judaism). And yet we see hatred toward Moslems from Talmudic Jews as well, and the excuse is often pointed to the Rabbinic concept of how the promise is not counted through every descendant of Israel. How ironic that the Rabbinical order asks us to forsake the truth of Romans 9:6 in favour of their own interpretation of how the seed is counted.

4) It's not as though NonChristian Jews throughout the ages haven't been reborn into Christianity. There are many through the ages that turned to Christ. It's not as though "all NonChristian Jews will join after every Gentile joins", but certainly those that are destined to find Christ through their nature will find Christ in their own time.

I have seen many advocates for the concept that NonChristian Jews receive a separate salvation than Christians, including details about raptures and OT promises that somehow only only apply to NonChristian Jews, but I have yet to see even one of those interpretations that is internally consistent without first rejecting portions of NT scripture.

You said: "I have seen many advocates for the concept that NonChristian Jews receive a separate salvation than Christians, including details about raptures and OT promises that somehow only only apply to NonChristian Jews, but I have yet to see even one of those interpretations that is internally consistent without first rejecting portions of NT scripture."

Hello Brother, i am just trying to get this clear from you for me - Are you saying you believe Jews can be saved apart fro Christ???

 

[Jocund]

You said: "I have seen many advocates for the concept that NonChristian Jews receive a separate salvation than Christians, including details about raptures and OT promises that somehow only only apply to NonChristian Jews, but I have yet to see even one of those interpretations that is internally consistent without first rejecting portions of NT scripture."

Hello Brother, i am just trying to get this clear from you for me - Are you saying you believe Jews can be saved apart fro Christ???

Hail Brother,

Complete opposite, I'm boggled by how people could think that separate salvation is the case. "???" Is exactly how I feel when someone brings it up.

 

[DavidTree]

Hail Brother,

Complete opposite, I'm boggled by how people could think that separate salvation is the case. "???" Is exactly how I feel when someone brings it up.

GREAT - i just wanted to make sure i was reading you correctly - Thank You

 

[DavidTree]

It is TWO DIFFERENT things, God BLINDED Isreal as a Nation because of sin, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in (Rapture), but as Paul says in Romans 11 they Jews are blinded only IN PART, meaning as a Nation but not as individuals, which would go against God's Holy nature a each man must work out his own salvation. Thus we can and do reach Jews who become Messianic Jews, but the crescendo of the nation repenting as one will not come until after the Rapture when the Two-witnesses show up at the 1335, which is 45 days before the 1290 where the False Prophet stops Jesus Worship in the temple AFTER the Jews repent and then places the AoD (image of the E.U. Beast), and 75 days before the Anti-Christ conquers Jerusalem and the Mediteranean Sea Region to become the last Beast, and thus the Jews will have 30 days to flee Judea before the Anti-Christ goes forth conquering.

So, the Jews indeed repent, just as Zechariah 13:8-9 says, (3-5 million or 1/3 of the Jews repents) JUST BEFORE we see the Day of the Lord in the next verse (Zechariah 14:1) where we see Jerusalem sacked.

The Church will not see Israel repent unless we are speaking about the Remnant Church as seen in Rev. 12:17, those Gentiles who repent AFTER the Rapture.

If you mix error with a lie - it dosen't pass the smell test.

Israel does not repent until the LORD's COMING - Matthew 23:37-39

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! See! Your house is left to you desolate;
for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”

HIS Coming is found in Zechriah 13

And it shall come to pass in all the land,”
Says the Lord,
“That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die,
But one-third shall be left in it:
I will bring the one-third through the fire,
Will refine them as silver is refined,
And test them as gold is tested.
They will call on My name,
And I will answer them.
I will say, ‘This is My people’;
And each one will say, ‘The Lord is my God.’ ”

His Church/Elect/Saints are on earth for His Coming to be united with the Saints that HE is bringing with Him.

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.

After that, we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[studentoftheword]

DavidTree-----you said ----Revelation chapter 7 does not speak of Jews of the flesh. -----



144,000 Sealed
7 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2 Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea:

3 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.”

4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

5 From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6 from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
7 from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
8 from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,

Joshua 3 NIV

9 Joshua said to the Israelites, “Come here and listen to the words of the Lord your God. 10 This is how you will know that the living God is among you and that he will certainly drive out before you the Canaanites, Hittites, Hivites, Perizzites, Girgashites, Amorites and Jebusites. 11 See, the ark of the covenant of the Lord of all the earth will go into the Jordan ahead of you.

12 Now then, choose twelve men from the tribes of Israel, one from each tribe. 13 And as soon as the priests who carry the ark of the Lord—the Lord of all the earth—set foot in the Jordan, its waters flowing downstream will be cut off and stand up in a heap.”from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000

So I see the 12 Tribes as Jews in the Flesh ---straight from The Word----you have every right to see it how ever you want to -----

 

[DavidTree]

DavidTree-----you said ----Revelation chapter 7 does not speak of Jews of the flesh. -----



144,000 Sealed
7 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2 Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea:

3 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.”

4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

5 From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6 from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
7 from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
8 from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,

Joshua 3 NIV

9 Joshua said to the Israelites, “Come here and listen to the words of the Lord your God. 10 This is how you will know that the living God is among you and that he will certainly drive out before you the Canaanites, Hittites, Hivites, Perizzites, Girgashites, Amorites and Jebusites. 11 See, the ark of the covenant of the Lord of all the earth will go into the Jordan ahead of you.

12 Now then, choose twelve men from the tribes of Israel, one from each tribe. 13 And as soon as the priests who carry the ark of the Lord—the Lord of all the earth—set foot in the Jordan, its waters flowing downstream will be cut off and stand up in a heap.”from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000

So I see the 12 Tribes as Jews in the Flesh ---straight from The Word----you have every right to see it how ever you want to -----

You believe the twelve tribes in Revelation are Jews according to the flesh under OT Law.

That is not what Scripture says. Since you do not know who they are, according to Scripture, you should seek to know before you claim to know.

Are you greater then the Apostle Paul? definitely not

If you want to know truth, as your name suggests(studentoftheword), then read/study Gospel of John, Romans, Galatians, Ephesians.

Then you will know who Christ is speaking of in Revelation chapter 7

 

[studentoftheword]

DavidTree ---you have the proof -----in Scripture -----you have your opinion and I have mine through the Word -----not going to argue with you ----Believe as you like -------

 

[Rondonmon]

If you mix error with a lie - it dosen't pass the smell test.

Israel does not repent until the LORD's COMING - Matthew 23:37-39

Can you not read nor comprehend scriptures?

Firstly, Matt. 23:37-39 shows Israel PROCLAIMING that Jesus is King of kings when he RETURNS, no one is getting saved by Jesus unless they come unto him BY FAITH, when he shows up its too late.

As I showed you THE SCRIPTURES above, and evidentially you are too shortsighted or too busy to READ THEM, thus I will POST THEM to prove you are in error. SMH....

LOOK at WHEN this HAPPENS

Zechariah 13"8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

Then the VERY NEXT VERSE is the Day of the Lord (1260 Event).

Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. (The Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem/Israel)....Below is Jesus Second Coming 1260 days later

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

So, it is VERY CLEAR, The Jews REPENT BEFORE the Day of God's Wrath falls at the 1260, and then 1260 days later at the Second Coming Jesus will fight against these same thug nations and the Anti-Christ.

When do the Two-witnesses turn Israel back unto God? BEGORE the coming DOTL, so says Malachi the Prophet,

Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

When is the Day of the Lord? The 1260 Event. When does Israel repent? BEFORE the 1260 event. We know this because they Flee Judea at the 1290 Event which is 30 days BEFORE the 1260 event,

So, twisting a verse to say the Jews only ACCEPT Jesus as the Messiah when he comes, even though the Scriptures say different places you in opposition to the holy word of God. Paul says all men must come unto God by FAITH ALONE. The Jew and the Greek. Thus the 1/3 who REPENT God saves, the 2/3 who refuse to REPENT God says that they will die (or be CUT-OFF).

You are just guessing, I am not guessing, a big difference.

 

[DavidTree]

Can you not read nor comprehend scriptures?

Firstly, Matt. 23:37-39 shows Israel PROCLAIMING that Jesus is King of kings when he RETURNS, no one is getting saved by Jesus unless they come unto him BY FAITH, when he shows up its too late.

As I showed you THE SCRIPTURES above, and evidentially you are too shortsighted or too busy to READ THEM, thus I will POST THEM to prove you are in error. SMH....

LOOK at WHEN this HAPPENS

Zechariah 13"8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

Then the VERY NEXT VERSE is the Day of the Lord (1260 Event).

Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. (The Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem/Israel)....Below is Jesus Second Coming 1260 days later

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

So, it is VERY CLEAR, The Jews REPENT BEFORE the Day of God's Wrath falls at the 1260, and then 1260 days later at the Second Coming Jesus will fight against these same thug nations and the Anti-Christ.

When do the Two-witnesses turn Israel back unto God? BEGORE the coming DOTL, so says Malachi the Prophet,

Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

When is the Day of the Lord? The 1260 Event. When does Israel repent? BEFORE the 1260 event. We know this because they Flee Judea at the 1290 Event which is 30 days BEFORE the 1260 event,

So, twisting a verse to say the Jews only ACCEPT Jesus as the Messiah when he comes, even though the Scriptures say different places you in opposition to the holy word of God. Paul says all men must come unto God by FAITH ALONE. The Jew and the Greek. Thus the 1/3 who REPENT God saves, the 2/3 who refuse to REPENT God says that they will die (or be CUT-OFF).

You are just guessing, I am not guessing, a big difference.

The Lord Jesus Christ says: Immediately after the Tribulation I am Coming...........Matt 24
satan says: did Jesus really say after the tribulation.......

Apostle Paul and the Lord both say: God brings the spirits of the Saints who have died in Him, at His Coming, to be Resurrected FIRST
, BEFORE the rapture - 1 Thess 4:13-18
satan says: the rapture takes place before the Resurrection

The LORD, Apostle Paul and Apostle John say: the Antichrist will come BEFORE the Lord Returns/His Coming
Matt 24 , 2 Thess 2:1-5 , 1 John 2:14-19 , Revelation 6:9-11 , ch7 , ch14 , ch20
satan says: you will be pre-trib raptured before the Antichrist comes

The LORD says: "I will gather My Elect and no one can pluck them from My hand"
satan says: Jesus will leave you behind - read 'Left Behind' books and interpret scripture my way

the Apostle Paul says: And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort,
who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”

 

[Rondonmon]

The Lord Jesus Christ says: Immediately after the Tribulation I am Coming...........Matt 24
satan says: did Jesus really say after the tribulation.......

No, Satan has confused YOU & OTHERS with not being able to understand that which is SIMPLE, and if you hear it explained a million times your pride will not let you admit you are in error. So, OF COURSE, Jesus comes back at the Second Coming (WOW....That's a big reveal.......NOT). And we the Church come back with Jesus, as Revelation 19 says, we marry Jess in Heaven, they return with Jesus. It's VERY CLEAR.

Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb(Jesus) is come, and his WIFE (Church) hath made herself ready. 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.


14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

So, who is in Heaven following Jesus back just before Armageddon? THE SAINTS who wear Fine, White Linen !!Meaning we have become the Lambs Brode IN HEAVEN before the Beast is killed ON EARTH LATER !!

Here is Matt. 24:29-31 as seen BELOW in Rev. 19:19

Rev. 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. (The Church/Bride who RETURNS with Jesus IMMEDIATELY AFTER the 70th-week tribulation !!

Why is this so hard to grasp?

TBH, whenever I see anyone point to Matt. 24:29-31 I simply shake my head and think these guys are still on milk as a baby is on milk, you haven't even got on baby food yet man, much less meat. This is far too easy to mess up.

Apostle Paul and the Lord both say: God brings the spirits of the Saints who have died in Him, at His Coming, to be Resurrected FIRST
, BEFORE the rapture - 1 Thess 4:13-18
satan says: the rapture takes place before the Resurrection

The Rapture happens Pre Trib, when Jesus Returns he rings us WITH HIM, both those who were Resurrected and those of us who CHANGED from a flesh man to a Spirit man, then went to Heaven to gain our FINE WHITE LINEN Robes. I have been called unto this for over 35 years. I understand that which I speak of.

You are WAY OFF on almost every subject discussed here.

 

[DavidTree]

No, Satan has confused YOU & OTHERS with not being able to understand that which is SIMPLE, and if you hear it explained a million times your pride will not let you admit you are in error. So, OF COURSE, Jesus comes back at the Second Coming (WOW....That's a big reveal.......NOT). And we the Church come back with Jesus, as Revelation 19 says, we marry Jess in Heaven, they return with Jesus. It's VERY CLEAR.

Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb(Jesus) is come, and his WIFE (Church) hath made herself ready. 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.


14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

So, who is in Heaven following Jesus back just before Armageddon? THE SAINTS who wear Fine, White Linen !!Meaning we have become the Lambs Brode IN HEAVEN before the Beast is killed ON EARTH LATER !!

Here is Matt. 24:29-31 as seen BELOW in Rev. 19:19

Rev. 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. (The Church/Bride who RETURNS with Jesus IMMEDIATELY AFTER the 70th-week tribulation !!

Why is this so hard to grasp?

TBH, whenever I see anyone point to Matt. 24:29-31 I simply shake my head and think these guys are still on milk as a baby is on milk, you haven't even got on baby food yet man, much less meat. This is far too easy to mess up.


The Rapture happens Pre Trib, when Jesus Returns he rings us WITH HIM, both those who were Resurrected and those of us who CHANGED from a flesh man to a Spirit man, then went to Heaven to gain our FINE WHITE LINEN Robes. I have been called unto this for over 35 years. I understand that which I speak of.

You are WAY OFF on almost every subject discussed here.

Yes, Revelation chapters 19 thru 20 is when the Father sends the Son back for the First Resurrection, after which is the rapture.

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord
will by no means precede those who are asleep.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first. (Revelation chapter 20)

After that, we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[Evmur]

Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
Rom 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
Rom 11:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

G1275
διαπαντός
diapantos
dee-ap-an-tos'
From G1223 and the genitive of G3956; through all time, that is, (adverbially) constantly: - alway (-s), continually.
Total KJV occurrences: 7

Doesn't look like God is ever going to open some peoples eyes.

... that generation

Paul's final word on Israel is "and so all Israel will be saved"