Jesus (bible) Vs Isa (quran)

[Bowman]

fictious? now you said he wasn't a real man? Koranic Muhammad ok now, which Muhammad are referred in Sura Muhammad (Sura 47)?
lol

All four Koranic instances of the term 'Muhammad' refer to the Biblical Jesus.

Christians didn't write the qoran. what is your definition of Christians? muhammad stole some ideas from the bible, yes that's true. He might have heard some stories when he was helping his first rich wife trading with some Jews and Christians from around the region. what islamic myth? it's historical.

Jews & Christians were the only literate ones in ancient Arabia....this along with the fact that legions of Koranic sura were named in honor of the Biblical Jesus, make it clear that Arab Christians penned the text.

since I guessed this forum was established for visiting Muslim and ex-Muslim, do you know any Muslim or ex-Muslim that came out in line with your conclusion?

Of course...

You should be happy about this.

 

[leonardronaldo]

ok let's examine your claim. To me your claim is a degradation of Lord Jesus' mighty name, but let's see. I invite Christians who view this post to judge.

Sura Al-Imran aya 144 And Muhammad is only a Messenger. Surely, Messengers passed away before him. Then, if he died or be slain, will you turn about on your heels? And he who turns about on his heels will not injure God at all. And God will give recompense to the ones who are thankful. Altafsir.com - Translations - التراجم

Sura Al-Ahzab aya 40 Muhammad had not been the father of any men from among you, but he is the Messenger of God and the Seal of the Prophets. And God had been Knowing of everything. Altafsir.com - Translations - التراجم

Sura Muhammad aya 2 And those who believed and did as the ones in accord with morality and believed in what was sent down to Muhammad —for it is The Truth from their Lord— He will absolve them of their evil deeds and will make right their state of mind. Altafsir.com - Translations - التراجم

Sura Al-Fath aya 29 Muhammad is the Messenger of God. And those who are with him are severe against the one who is ungrateful, but compassionate among themselves. Thou hast seen them as ones who bow down as ones who prostrate themselves. They are looking for grace from God and contentment. Their mark is on their faces from the effects of prostration. This is their parable in the Torah. And their parable in the Gospel is like sown seed that brought out its shoot, energized. It, then, became stout and rose straight on its plant stalk impressing the ones who sow so that He enrage by them the ones who are ungrateful, God promised those who believed and did as the ones in accord with morality, for them forgiveness and a sublime compensation. Altafsir.com - Translations - التراجم

So Mr. Bowman claims, Biblical Jesus is:
1. only a messenger
2. those who are with him are severe against unbelievers, compassionate only among themselves
3. the sura Muhammad in the quran mention many times as well the commandments to: battle the disbelievers, smiting necks, don't cry out for peace when you are the uppermost, etc.

thanks for showing your understanding of Biblical Jesus.

Muhammad was illiterate but he wasn't deaf. Parrots are illiterate but they can recite what they heard. So your argument doesn't have any grounds at all. And please stop claiming Biblical Jesus when what you are posting are a disgrace to His mighty name. No Christians are to be happy with your unclear and disgrace claim. I don't think any muslim will hear you, now as a Christian, i will refrain from hearing your point of view of Jesus, since it is a disgrace.

Peace.

 

[Bowman]

ok let's examine your claim. To me your claim is a degradation of Lord Jesus' mighty name, but let's see. I invite Christians who view this post to judge.

Sura Al-Imran aya 144 And Muhammad is only a Messenger. Surely, Messengers passed away before him. Then, if he died or be slain, will you turn about on your heels? And he who turns about on his heels will not injure God at all. And God will give recompense to the ones who are thankful. Altafsir.com - Translations - التراجم

Sura Al-Ahzab aya 40 Muhammad had not been the father of any men from among you, but he is the Messenger of God and the Seal of the Prophets. And God had been Knowing of everything. Altafsir.com - Translations - التراجم

Sura Muhammad aya 2 And those who believed and did as the ones in accord with morality and believed in what was sent down to Muhammad —for it is The Truth from their Lord— He will absolve them of their evil deeds and will make right their state of mind. Altafsir.com - Translations - التراجم

Sura Al-Fath aya 29 Muhammad is the Messenger of God. And those who are with him are severe against the one who is ungrateful, but compassionate among themselves. Thou hast seen them as ones who bow down as ones who prostrate themselves. They are looking for grace from God and contentment. Their mark is on their faces from the effects of prostration. This is their parable in the Torah. And their parable in the Gospel is like sown seed that brought out its shoot, energized. It, then, became stout and rose straight on its plant stalk impressing the ones who sow so that He enrage by them the ones who are ungrateful, God promised those who believed and did as the ones in accord with morality, for them forgiveness and a sublime compensation. Altafsir.com - Translations - التراجم

So Mr. Bowman claims, Biblical Jesus is:
1. only a messenger
2. those who are with him are severe against unbelievers, compassionate only among themselves
3. the sura Muhammad in the quran mention many times as well the commandments to: battle the disbelievers, smiting necks, don't cry out for peace when you are the uppermost, etc.

thanks for showing your understanding of Biblical Jesus.

Muhammad was illiterate but he wasn't deaf. Parrots are illiterate but they can recite what they heard. So your argument doesn't have any grounds at all. And please stop claiming Biblical Jesus when what you are posting are a disgrace to His mighty name. No Christians are to be happy with your unclear and disgrace claim. I don't think any muslim will hear you, now as a Christian, i will refrain from hearing your point of view of Jesus, since it is a disgrace.

Peace.

You can start by showing us the Arabic word rendered as 'only'.

This, alone, is enough to squelch any part of your argument against what you think the original Koranic message is.

I find it most curious how you have become defensive and outraged that the Koran could actually contain a Christian message...and that this original message was mis-interpreted by Muslims....when, in fact, as Christians we readily accept Jewish scripture as pertaining to Jesus Christ....knowing full well that Jews mis-interpreted the very same scripture.

This is called hypocricy...

 

[leonardronaldo]

I posted the link, sir. You tell me what does this word mean then in the context? إِلاَّ

Your argument that wants to take Qoran as written by Christians and somehow and in someway agree with the Bible and Biblical Jesus is much more erroneous than any of my claim. Christians accept the Jewish Scriptures written in the Old Testament which are the 39 books in total. Now are you saying you accept the Jewish Talmud as also an authoritative Word to be accepted?
So all Jews and Muslims doesn't know and understand arabic and Hebrew and their own History while on the other hand, you do?
Ok then.
Lord knows.

 

[Bowman]

I posted the link, sir. You tell me what does this word mean then in the context? إِلاَّ

What good is posting a googled link if you are unable to defend it?

Remember it was YOUR assertion that Jesus was 'only' a messenger...now you must defend it.

Your argument that wants to take Qoran as written by Christians and somehow and in someway agree with the Bible and Biblical Jesus is much more erroneous than any of my claim.

The authors of the Koran give full credit to the Holy Bible for its contents.

You should study it sometime...

Christians accept the Jewish Scriptures written in the Old Testament which are the 39 books in total. Now are you saying you accept the Jewish Talmud as also an authoritative Word to be accepted?

If you accept that Jews mis-interpreted their scriptures...then you must likewise accept that perhaps Muslims likewise mis-interpreted theirs.

So all Jews and Muslims doesn't know and understand arabic and Hebrew and their own History while on the other hand, you do?
Ok then.
Lord knows.

Correct.

 

[leonardronaldo]

Googled? lol I have used that link since 2011 and it has helped giving understanding to most muslim that I talked to in the past. Lol
Now you try to twist things around and make it seems that it was me who agreed to the point that Jesus was the Quranic reference of term Muhammad. How silly pathetic.

I know quran regards highly on the Bible. So does the 'extra holy books' of mormons, Jehovah Witnesses etc. so what. I did learn quran with tafseer and hadith, unlike you who are just gibberish-ing your great claims without any support nor evidence on either historical or contextual basis.

Now I understand you are even more narcissist than muhammad himself. I rest my case.

May the Lord's grace be poured upon us all

 

[Bowman]

Googled?

Yes.

lol I have used that link since 2011 and it has helped giving understanding to most muslim that I talked to in the past. Lol
Now you try to twist things around and make it seems that it was me who agreed to the point that Jesus was the Quranic reference of term Muhammad. How silly pathetic.

How is it that your link cannot even define the word that you want to render as 'only'...?

Still waiting for you to explain yourself on this one...

I know quran regards highly on the Bible.

Where?

So does the 'extra holy books' of mormons, Jehovah Witnesses etc.

Where?

so what. I did learn quran with tafseer and hadith, unlike you who are just gibberish-ing your great claims without any support nor evidence on either historical or contextual basis.

I don't need to google links to support my exegesis.

Now I understand you are even more narcissist than muhammad himself. I rest my case.

Which 'Muhammad'....the islamic one or the Koranic one?


You should be happy that the Koran points the reader back to the Holy Bible....

 

[Bowman]

I posted the link, sir. You tell me what does this word mean then in the context? إِلاَّ

Let's help you out...

إلا=“illa”

“illa” definition:

Regarded as a simple word. If not; unless; except; some; otherwise; less; but; and;also. This word is used to signify the sense of exception. This exception is oftwo kinds: 1) Exception in which the thing excepted belongs to the same classor species to which the things from which an exception is sought to be made,belongs. 2) Exception in which the excepted thing belongs to a different class or species. It commonly governs the accusative. It also means not even.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume one,pp. 76 - 78
The Dictionary of the HolyQur’an, 1[SUP]st[/SUP] edition, Abdul Mannan Omar p. 27



Now...where does 'illa' ever mean 'only'...?

 

[Bowman]

hey bro can u point out where it was misleading
for the point that u pointed out as Qur'an understood Jesus is God then u should change that so u might know that the auther of Qur'an understood Jesus as false God made by the desiples and u can check out those verse knowing that I am Saudi Arabian and I memorized Qur'an + I'm son of Islamic scholar here is those verse :

Waiting for your reply...

 

[G4JC]

You should be happy that the Koran points the reader back to the Holy Bible....

Sorry, but I just had to jump in and say...INCREDIBLE.
This is not the case, though the newly found Chrislam movement is pointing a lot of people in that direction. Muslims and Christians together in perfect ecumenical harmony crying "peace peace", when it brings none. Both religions are at polar opposite of each other; this goes far back even to the middle ages with the battle of the Moors and even further back to Ishmael and Isaac.

Here are some good sites to begin researching on this subject:
Isaac & Ishmael
Answering Islam, A Christian-Muslim Dialog and Apologetic
FAQ's concerning Islam

Also if they are so peaceful, we should work on getting those peace-treaties going to free the poor christian pastor imprisoned in Iran, Saeed Abedini.

 

[Bowman]

Sorry, but I just had to jump in and say...INCREDIBLE.

Ripley's...Believe it or not!

This is not the case, though the newly found Chrislam movement is pointing a lot of people in that direction. Muslims and Christians together in perfect ecumenical harmony crying "peace peace", when it brings none. Both religions are at polar opposite of each other; this goes far back even to the middle ages with the battle of the Moors and even further back to Ishmael and Isaac.

Here are some good sites to begin researching on this subject:
Isaac & Ishmael
Answering Islam, A Christian-Muslim Dialog and Apologetic
FAQ's concerning Islam

Also if they are so peaceful, we should work on getting those peace-treaties going to free the poor christian pastor imprisoned in Iran, Saeed Abedini.

This is not about religions....rather, it is about what the SCRIPTURES of two separate faiths say regarding who Jesus is.

 

[Bowman]

hey bro can u point out where it was misleading
for the point that u pointed out as Qur'an understood Jesus is God then u should change that so u might know that the auther of Qur'an understood Jesus as false God made by the desiples and u can check out those verse knowing that I am Saudi Arabian and I memorized Qur'an + I'm son of Islamic scholar here is those verse :

Of what value is being a Saudi Arabian....or memorizing the Koran...or being the son of an Islamic scholar, if you cannot defend your assertions...?

 

[Bowman]

Of what value is being a Saudi Arabian....or memorizing the Koran...or being the son of an Islamic scholar, if you cannot defend your assertions...?

Bump......

 

[AziziLoveChrist]

Bump......

sorry sir for getting late on replying to ur questions
Christianchat.com was blocked by Saudi gov. thats why I coudnt comment on ur posts let me get my stuff done in the new town and I'll replay to u

 

[Bryancampbell]

Most of these comparisons are untrue and misleading.

The authors of the Koran fully understood that Jesus is God....etc, etc....it is only islam and poor translations which attempt to omit this fact.

Hmmmm I'm pretty sure it don't?

 

[Bowman]

sorry sir for getting late on replying to ur questions
Christianchat.com was blocked by Saudi gov. thats why I coudnt comment on ur posts let me get my stuff done in the new town and I'll replay to u

Thank you...

 

[TheKingdomOfGod]

islam is false
**edited**

 

[pancakeface]

if we want to compare the 2 images we have , we shoulld ask our selfs 3 main questions
View attachment 51428 View attachment 51429 View attachment 51430 View attachment 51431

I disagree with the analysis of sin being solely man's problem in the bible.

I do not want you to be ignorant of this shrouded thing, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in,and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:
“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”

As far as the message of good news is concerned, they (gentiles) are adverse for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are favoured on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of your disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result (in fairness) of God’s mercy to you. For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may have mercy on all!

 

[leonardronaldo]

Didn't see the word solely in the table. But, yea God hates sin very much.
Can you explain your point of quoting Romans 11?

 

[isaria]

I pray forgiveness for what ever words i may written were harsch or wrong.
I used to awaken early morning for prayer and it felt good.
Then what muslims call "shaitan" "iiii" "think" i pray with soul in other bodies what the point..my body do not need do any movements or hold hands together".also i did not connect with any religious people in any gatherings. (only some people some times)This helped keep me away.
I pray i will start to pray again as it felt good.

It is strange that muslims are seen as supressing woman yet muslims do not see it this way.
Mohammeds first wife was businesswoman and wealthiest woman in town when they met she proposed to him.
A woman keeps her own finances and no husband may steal from her or enslave disrespect her and if he does it goes against teachings and he is sinning.
It is said a woman whom covers and speaks is respected and listened to for who she is and her wisdom and not for her looks and appearance and that is one reason of cover another reason is protection and or intimate whom show self to in fullness as eyes can do such amazing things it is maybe seen very intimate by some and something one want to show only husband and closest.
The "not laying/sleeping" with disobediant wife can be discussed.....lol as striking her if that doesnt work.
Oh, such a punishment , alone in bed
(specially if he snores)
though one may well miss those snores...

It sounds very beautiful the chanting and singing with/during prayer.
Arab would be beautiful country to visit but it is difficult to enter and the muslims who do go have strict laws to follow and live up to and obey.
I would not be permited go there alone.
One must be accompanied by a man if one is a woman.
Woman are not to travel alone.
But travelling is so much fun.....
Maybe there creative solution to that one.

Washing 5 times a day before prayer is alot but maybe then one not smell so bad, specially those who smell like myself.lol.
can apartment be included on that cleanse....

God bless to a beautiful people
And the beautiful people of also all countries and cultures and religions and do wish for a peace , blessed be.