Jesus Came To Fulfill Not To Destroy
- Thread starter BroTan
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Doctrine is an element to real salvation (1 Timothy 4:16).
And if someone banks on the idea that they will be annihilated rather than face everlasting torments, and considers that it is not enough of a deterrent as concerning sin, they may continue on in their sins and will be in for a rude awakening when their punishment turns out to be everlasting torments.
And if someone banks on the idea that they will be annihilated rather than face everlasting torments, and considers that it is not enough of a deterrent as concerning sin, they may continue on in their sins and will be in for a rude awakening when their punishment turns out to be everlasting torments.
-
1
- Show all
I don't know what Jehovah's Witnesses believe, but salvation rests with being in Christ. I don't think a perfect understanding of the nature of Hell is required. A couple of sheep can debate on where the goats go, but the sheep don't need a perfect understanding of the goats' final destination in order to be sheep.
The thing to be careful of is knowing the difference between something that scripture explicitly says vs an interpretation of scripture that we find compelling.
The thing to be careful of is knowing the difference between something that scripture explicitly says vs an interpretation of scripture that we find compelling.
EVERLASTING FIRE = EVERLASTING TORMENT. Just go and look up every reference to "everlasting" and "eternal" in Strong's Concordance. The torment is symbolized in this way: "Where there worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched".
MARK 9:44: JOHN GILL'S COMMENTARY
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. The passage referred to, is in Isaiah 66:24, and as there, the words are spoken of such, as transgressed against the Lord; so here, of such as offended any of Christ's little ones, or were offended by an hand, a foot, or eye, and retained them: by their worm is meant, their conscience; for as a worm that is continually gnawing upon the entrails of a man, gives him exquisite pain; so the consciences of sinners, will be continually flying in their faces, bringing their sins to remembrance, accusing them of them, upbraiding them with them, aggravating them, tormenting them for them, filling them with dreadful anguish and misery, with twinging remorses, and severe reflections, and which will never have an end.
This will be always the case; conscience will be ever distressing, racking, and torturing them; it will never cease, nor cease doing this office, and so the Chaldee paraphrase of Isaiah 66:24 renders this phrase, , "their souls shall not die"; but shall ever continue in the dreadful torments and unspeakable horrors of a corroding conscience; and by "the fire" may be meant the fire of divine wrath let into their souls, which will never be extinguished; and so Jarchi interprets the phrase in Isaiah 66:24, "their fire", "in hell".
MARK 9:44: JOHN GILL'S COMMENTARY
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. The passage referred to, is in Isaiah 66:24, and as there, the words are spoken of such, as transgressed against the Lord; so here, of such as offended any of Christ's little ones, or were offended by an hand, a foot, or eye, and retained them: by their worm is meant, their conscience; for as a worm that is continually gnawing upon the entrails of a man, gives him exquisite pain; so the consciences of sinners, will be continually flying in their faces, bringing their sins to remembrance, accusing them of them, upbraiding them with them, aggravating them, tormenting them for them, filling them with dreadful anguish and misery, with twinging remorses, and severe reflections, and which will never have an end.
This will be always the case; conscience will be ever distressing, racking, and torturing them; it will never cease, nor cease doing this office, and so the Chaldee paraphrase of Isaiah 66:24 renders this phrase, , "their souls shall not die"; but shall ever continue in the dreadful torments and unspeakable horrors of a corroding conscience; and by "the fire" may be meant the fire of divine wrath let into their souls, which will never be extinguished; and so Jarchi interprets the phrase in Isaiah 66:24, "their fire", "in hell".
The hope is that those seeking salvation are motivated by the carrot and not the stick.
The legalistic provisions of the old laws were observed by the Pharisees in some cases just to avoid the stick. And through avoiding the stick the erroneous belief was that they qualified for the reward. Christ's message in the NT seems to be largely about embracing the carrot and sharing God's love because it is in one's nature through Christ to do so.
If one is focused worried about hell their motivation might be misplaced. The greatest commandments are to love God and love our neighbours as we love ourselves. Through this the law is fulfilled.
Love is patient, love is kind.
"Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears." - 1 Cor 13:8-10 NIV
The legalistic provisions of the old laws were observed by the Pharisees in some cases just to avoid the stick. And through avoiding the stick the erroneous belief was that they qualified for the reward. Christ's message in the NT seems to be largely about embracing the carrot and sharing God's love because it is in one's nature through Christ to do so.
If one is focused worried about hell their motivation might be misplaced. The greatest commandments are to love God and love our neighbours as we love ourselves. Through this the law is fulfilled.
Love is patient, love is kind.
"Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears." - 1 Cor 13:8-10 NIV
Well...at least you got the person who wrote the laws right. Most people who don't understand Paul's writing are those who are mostly new Testament christians. Now let's begin by taking a look at both of the laws and how they worked together. We will see there were two laws given to Moses, they were the commandments and the sacrificial law. Watch how they worked together.
And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them: (Leviticus 4:1-2) The law in the scriptures above is the commandments.
Notice something else very important in these two scriptures. It states, "if a soul shall sin through ignorance." Notice that the scripture did not says on purpose. Why? There is no sacrifice for a sin that is committed willfully. Let's find out what was to be done if a person committed a sin against the Lord unintentionally. Let's skip down to the 27th verse and take a look at the second law (which is the sacrificial law).
And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty; Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned. And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering. And the priest shall take of the blood thereof with his finger, and put it upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out all the blood thereof at the bottom of the altar. (Leviticus 4:27-30)
When the common people sinned through ignorance and it came to their knowledge, what did they have to do? They brought an offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for their sin which they had committed, then the priest would offer the animal to the Lord. Think about this for a moment. If an animal was killed for a person that committed sin, what will happen to us today if we a trespass against the Lord? We will find that out later. Now we see how the sacrificial law was used when a person broke a commandment unintentionally.
Now from reading this, you should be able to see which law came 430yrs later.
And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them: (Leviticus 4:1-2) The law in the scriptures above is the commandments.
Notice something else very important in these two scriptures. It states, "if a soul shall sin through ignorance." Notice that the scripture did not says on purpose. Why? There is no sacrifice for a sin that is committed willfully. Let's find out what was to be done if a person committed a sin against the Lord unintentionally. Let's skip down to the 27th verse and take a look at the second law (which is the sacrificial law).
And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty; Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned. And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering. And the priest shall take of the blood thereof with his finger, and put it upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out all the blood thereof at the bottom of the altar. (Leviticus 4:27-30)
When the common people sinned through ignorance and it came to their knowledge, what did they have to do? They brought an offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for their sin which they had committed, then the priest would offer the animal to the Lord. Think about this for a moment. If an animal was killed for a person that committed sin, what will happen to us today if we a trespass against the Lord? We will find that out later. Now we see how the sacrificial law was used when a person broke a commandment unintentionally.
Now from reading this, you should be able to see which law came 430yrs later.
I understood and did not think this was worthy of an answer, to be honest. It's a waste of time. We all know (maybe except you) that the Promise was the ORIGINAL COVENANT, not the Law that God gave Moses. If you want to debate that point you will have to do it with your wall, I am not going t spend time eating that point, eat your heart out however go at with yourself.