Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

[Heaven_Bound]

How about this, Paul explains a mystery to us concerning the rapture in 1 Cor. 15, then gives more detail in 1-2 Thes.

A biblical mystery is something that has not been known by man but is now revealed.

Paul explains other mysteries in his epistles that were not previously known.

The rapture Paul explains and the Second Coming are not the same event.

Nowhere does this Mystery relate to the Rapture. People have just said it relates. But there are not one single Verse that connects Mystery to Rapture. That is a Doctrine made by man and cannot literally be found in the Bible.

Personally, if a human being tells me something and I cannot find or connect it to the Bible, whether that human being is a preacher or loved one or someone people revere, that person is a liar.

 

[Charlie24]

Nowhere does this Mystery relate to the Rapture. People have just said it relates. But there are not one single Verse that connects Mystery to Rapture. That is a Doctrine made by man and cannot literally be found in the Bible.

Being "caught away" is not a mystery to you? That means to seize forcibly or to take as in robbery.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

Being "caught away" is not a mystery to you? That means to seize forcibly or to take as in robbery.

No, how else would God take those still alive on Earth with Him when He Returns?

His Own Ascension is a Rapture like Event, and we have several Accounts of that in the Gospel. So, how can it be a Mystery to us, who are Saved?

 

[Charlie24]

No, how else would God take those still alive on Earth with Him when He Returns?

Christ stays on earth at the Second Coming to set up His Kingdom.

The saints being "seized forcibly" at His Second Coming makes no sense at all.

But on the other hand, it makes perfect sense if He is to fulfill the promise He gave to John to give to the Church in Rev. 3:10.

" Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

 

[Heaven_Bound]

Christ stays on earth at the Second Coming to set up His Kingdom.

The saints being "seized forcibly" at His Second Coming makes no sense at all.

But on the other hand, it makes perfect sense if He is to fulfill the promise He gave to John to give to the Church in Rev. 3:10.

" Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

That is because we need to be Changed, which is done while being Caught Up, and then the next event we are at Armageddon. Read Revelation 16. First 14 Verses are God's Wrath, Verse 15 is the Rapture, Verse 16 is Armageddon.

Ever read in the Twinkling of an Eye? That is literally all it takes.

in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

 

[cv5]

How about this, Paul explains a mystery to us concerning the rapture in 1 Cor. 15, then gives more detail in 1-2 Thes.

A biblical mystery is something that has not been known by man but is now revealed.

Paul explains other mysteries in his epistles that were not previously known.

The rapture Paul explains and the Second Coming are not the same event.

Correct! The Second Coming was clearly noted in thousands of places in the Old Testament. On the other hand, the Church and the rapture of the Church is a mystery NOT revealed in the Old Testament.

The posties simply cannot grasp this fact.....and keep banging their head on the Second Coming, when in fact it is an Old Testament precept fully developed.....and relates TO ISRAEL primarily.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

Correct! The Second Coming was clearly noted in thousands of places in the Old Testament. On the other hand, the Church and the rapture of the Church is a mystery NOT revealed in the Old Testament.

The posties simply cannot grasp this fact.....and keep banging their head on the Second Coming, when in fact it is an Old Testament precept fully developed.....and relates TO ISRAEL primarily.

Actually, we understand it so well, we are amazed at how anyone else cannot see it.

 

[Charlie24]

That is because we need to be Changed, which is done while being Caught Up, and then the next event we are at Armageddon. Read Revelation 16. First 14 Verses are God's Wrath, Verse 15 is the Rapture, Verse 16 is Armageddon.

Ever read in the Twinkling of an Eye? That is literally all it takes.

in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

That has nothing to do with what Jesus said, The Church being spared the wrath of God during the tribulation.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

Paul said, in the moment of a twinkling of an eye, we are Changed.

Close and open your eye lids. That is how fast it will be.

It's so fast, Christ can Catch us Up, Change us, and we are off to Armageddon...Twinkling of an Eye.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

That has nothing to do with what Jesus said, The Church being spared the wrath of God during the tribulation.

Where does it claim the Church is Spared?

 

[Charlie24]

Where does it claim the Church is Spared?

"I will keep you from" in Rev. 3:10.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

"I will keep you from" in Rev. 3:10.

That does not mean escaping Tribulation. Where does it specify this means escaping Tribulation?

 

[Heaven_Bound]

How is the "the hour of temptation" = Tribulation?

We won't be Tempted, we will be HUNTED during the Tribulation!

Only the fake Christian can succumb to Temptation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

And neither does the scripture say that the Church will go through the tribulation.

Doesn't matter.

What the Bible DOES say is that there is a single resurrection (including live believers). It cannot be before the Trib or all the trib martyrs won't receive their glorified bodies, and we know from Rev 20:4,5 that they ARE resurrected after the Trib and reign with Christ.

So it is OBVIOUS that they will be resurrected WITH glorified bodies. No problem.

So, where is the verse showing Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven?

There is much to fill in but you are not willing to consider the rapture view.

I've more than considered it. I was brought up believing it. I changed my mind only about 7-10 years ago after being challenged on my view, which I couldn't prove.

One resurrection in the end will not fulfill scripture!

That's your problem of comprehension.

I've given several verses that plainly say there is A resurrection for the saved.

The Bible says so, and I believe it.

What is your excuse, since you know that you have NO verses showing Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven?

 

[Charlie24]

How is the "the hour of temptation" = Tribulation?

We won't be Tempted, we will be HUNTED during the Tribulation!

Only the fake Christian can succumb to Temptation.

There is only one possible answer for "the hour of temptation which shall come upon ALL the earth."

Especially when it is "to try them that dwell on the earth."

That would be the Great tribulation, nothing else in scripture can even compare!

 

[Charlie24]

Doesn't matter.

What the Bible DOES say is that there is a single resurrection (including live believers). It cannot be before the Trib or all the trib martyrs won't receive their glorified bodies, and we know from Rev 20:4,5 that they ARE resurrected after the Trib and reign with Christ.

So it is OBVIOUS that they will be resurrected WITH glorified bodies. No problem.

So, where is the verse showing Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven?


I've more than considered it. I was brought up believing it. I changed my mind only about 7-10 years ago after being challenged on my view, which I couldn't prove.


That's your problem of comprehension.

I've given several verses that plainly say there is A resurrection for the saved.

The Bible says so, and I believe it.

What is your excuse, since you know that you have NO verses showing Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven?

LOL, doesn't matter if it means you have to explain, right, FG?

 

[FreeGrace2]

How about this, Paul explains a mystery to us concerning the rapture in 1 Cor. 15, then gives more detail in 1-2 Thes.

Please explain 1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

I see ALL believers from Adam on in one resurrection, and that is "when He comes".

 

[FreeGrace2]

"I will keep you from" in Rev. 3:10.

Note the context. It's ONLY faithful believers. So that's NOT a universal believer event.

In fact, it's just like the 10 plagues of Egypt, some of which parallel some of the judgments during the Trib.

While the Israelites were IN Egypt, they were spared the judgments ON Egypt.

 

[Charlie24]

Please explain 1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

I see ALL believers from Adam on in one resurrection, and that is "when He comes".

How about you do some explaining FG! We never get that from you, it's always a pointed finger with you.

Explain how you know from scripture the Church will go through the tribulation?

 

[Heaven_Bound]

There is only one possible answer for "the hour of temptation which shall come upon ALL the earth."

Especially when it is "to try them that dwell on the earth."

That would be the Great tribulation, nothing else in scripture can even compare!

And it just means we won't be Tempted because everyone else is under Great Delusion, but the True Believer, will never be Delusional to be Tempted.