Jesus is God

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iwant2serve said:
There was a question asked to me saying, "Can you be saved and not know Jesus is God". My response was "Yes you can".
I will explain the answer. I have not found where the Bible saysI have to know Jesus is God or understand that he is God to get saved. Many people like myself did not know this when we came to Jesus for salvation. I only knew him (Jesus) as the Son of God, the Savior, the Christ and so on. Once I statred reading and understanding the Bible I saw that scripture revealed him as God as part of the Godhead which includes Father, Son and Holy Spirit and these three are one. Now I do believe that you cannot deny it and call yourself saved either ined it has bee shown to you in the Bible even though you don't understand how it could be.

So my questions are:
When you got saved did you have the knowledge that Jesus is God?
or
Did that knowledge come to you after asking Jesus to save you?
or
Do you believe you have to know this before you can be saved?
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Concerning no3. Who does the bible say you must believe Jesus to be to be saved? I guess it is where your bottom line lies, the bible or the logical nind
 
iwant2serve said:
Rell the commits back to the OP please'
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[h=1]Thread: Jesus is God[/h]
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.Matthew 19:17, Mark 10:18

My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Matthew 27:46, Mark 15:34


So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. Mark 16:19


But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God.John 8:40


My Father is greater than I. John 14:28


I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. John 20:17


Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness bythat man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. Acts 17:31


The head of Christ is God. 1 Corinthians 11:3


And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. 1 Corinthians 15:28


Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Colossians 3:1


For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5


Jesus Christ: who is ... on the the right hand of God. 1 Peter 3:21-22


​
 
I would say yes, you must believe Jesus is God in order to be saved. Only God can condemn us for sins(and he has), only God can free us from what he condemned us from(and he has, through Jesus). Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior.
 
I would say yes, you must believe Jesus is God in order to be saved. Only God can condemn us for sins (and he has), only God can set us free from sin he condemned us for(and he has, through Jesus). Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior.
 
crossnote said:
Worship is defined as...


Jn 4:23-24 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth:for the Father -- seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit:and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Jn 4:23 . The true worshippers (hoi alethinoi proskunetai). See 1:9 for alethinos (genuine). Proskunetes is a late word from proskuneo, to bow the knee, to worship, A.T. Robertson

προσκυνέω. impf. προσεκύνουν; fut. προσκυνήσω; 1aor. προσεκύνησα; (1) from a basic sense bow down to kiss someone 's feet, garment hem, or the ground in front of him; (2) in the NT of worship or veneration of a divine or supposedly divine object, expressed concretely with falling face down in front of someone worship, venerate, do obeisance to; (a) toward God (MT 4. 10); (b) toward Jesus (MT 2. 2); (c) toward the devil and demons (MT 4. 9; RV 9. 20); (d) toward idols (AC 7. 43); (e) toward human beings as given or claiming to have divine power or authority (RV 3. 9; 13. 4 b) Analytic Lexicon of the New Testament.

A. Verbs (Worship)
1. proskuneo (προσκυνέω, 4352), "to make obeisance, do reverence to" (from pros, "towards," and kuneo, "to kiss"), is the most frequent word rendered "to worship." It is used of an act of homage or reverence. (Vines)

Thus epikaleo and proskuneo are not the same word nor have the same meaning.
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You just proved my assertion, yet again.

True worshipers worship God as Triune.

Father
Son (Truth)
Spirit

True worshipers are the ones' Saved....and they are Saved because they worship God as Triune.


Simple, Biblical truth.
 
the woman at the well didn't. nor the ones in the city who she witnessed to and told about Jesus .....
 
Jeff_56 said:
the woman at the well didn't. nor the ones in the city who she witnessed to and told about Jesus .....
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Jesus tells us that she didn't know proper worship in the preceding verses...so He gave her a reminder of what ALREADY was proper worship...

The OT is a clinic on how Jews improperly worshipped God, and they were nearly wiped off the planet entirely for doing so...again, only the ones worshipping God as Triune were the remnant allowed to advance into the future.
 
I suspect it is true that you don't need to know that Jesus is God to be saved. At least not on a conscious level. Don't forget the Holy Spirit's work is deep. So that truth will be somewhere in your heart if you have asked Jesus into your life. This means that when you hear this truth about Jesus, you will love and recognize it straight away, and you won't want to deny it. Anyone who vociferously hates this truth isn't saved.
 
so someone('scholars'?) lied to you, and you listened... or misquoted... >>

".so He gave her a reminder of what ALREADY was proper worship..."
 
RachelBibleStudent said:
everyone here agrees that jesus saves...but again the question is -which jesus-?

this jesus?
View attachment 119059

or maybe this jesus?
View attachment 119061

there is only one way to salvation...and not everything that goes by the name of 'jesus' is it!
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John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
That Jesus.

(Neither of your pictures are that Jesus.)
 
Bowman said:
Where is your bark now...?
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If you can remove yourself from your own private interpretations with a what you think is a very loud voice, you'd hear his bark. It's Rottweiler-big bark. I think Crossnotes was just doberman-big bark. Both barks were quite loud. I could hear them all the way from here.

You, on the other hand, sound more like a mouse barking.
 
crossnote said:
Act 2:21 Shall call on (epikalesetai). First aorist middle subjunctive of epikaleo, common verb, to call to, middle voice for oneself in need. Indefinite relative clause with ean and so subjunctive, punctiliar idea, in any single case, and so aorist. A.T. Robertson.

ἐπικαλέω. fut. mid. ἐπικαλέσομαι; 1aor. ἐπεκάλεσα, mid. ἐπεκαλεσάμην; pf. pass. ἐπικέκλημαι; pluperfect mid. ἐπεκεκλήμην; 1aor. pass. ἐπεκλήθην; (1) active, in speaking of a person call, name, give a surname (MT 10. 25); passive be called, be named (AC 1. 23); (2) passive with ὄνομα (name), idiomatically, denoting that one person belongs to another whose name is attached to him ἐπικαλεῖσθαι τὸ ὄνομά τινος ἐπί τινα literally have someone 's name called on someone, i. e. belong to, be the person of (AC 15. 17); (3) middle, as a legal technical term for appealing to a higher court appeal, call or summon as witness (2C 1. 23); (4) middle, as invoking God' s name in prayer call on (AC 2. 21) Analytic Lexicon of the New Testament.

I wouldn't call invoking God's name for help as worship.

Worship is defined as...


Jn 4:23-24 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth:for the Father -- seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit:and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Jn 4:23 . The true worshippers (hoi alethinoi proskunetai). See 1:9 for alethinos (genuine). Proskunetes is a late word from proskuneo, to bow the knee, to worship, A.T. Robertson

προσκυνέω. impf. προσεκύνουν; fut. προσκυνήσω; 1aor. προσεκύνησα; (1) from a basic sense bow down to kiss someone 's feet, garment hem, or the ground in front of him; (2) in the NT of worship or veneration of a divine or supposedly divine object, expressed concretely with falling face down in front of someone worship, venerate, do obeisance to; (a) toward God (MT 4. 10); (b) toward Jesus (MT 2. 2); (c) toward the devil and demons (MT 4. 9; RV 9. 20); (d) toward idols (AC 7. 43); (e) toward human beings as given or claiming to have divine power or authority (RV 3. 9; 13. 4 b) Analytic Lexicon of the New Testament.

A. Verbs (Worship)
1. proskuneo (προσκυνέω, 4352), "to make obeisance, do reverence to" (from pros, "towards," and kuneo, "to kiss"), is the most frequent word rendered "to worship." It is used of an act of homage or reverence. (Vines)

Thus epikaleo and proskuneo are not the same word nor have the same meaning.
Click to expand...
My apologizes. Your bark just went from doberman-big to Rottweiler-big. :D
 
TheMouse said:
I suspect it is true that you don't need to know that Jesus is God to be saved. At least not on a conscious level. Don't forget the Holy Spirit's work is deep. So that truth will be somewhere in your heart if you have asked Jesus into your life. This means that when you hear this truth about Jesus, you will love and recognize it straight away, and you won't want to deny it. Anyone who vociferously hates this truth isn't saved.
Click to expand...
I'm thinking, we didn't know anything worthwhile before being saved, and then, after, we have a steep learning curve to catch up on all we didn't know before.
 
Pumicestone said:
Thread: Jesus is God
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.Matthew 19:17, Mark 10:18

My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Matthew 27:46, Mark 15:34


So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. Mark 16:19


But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God.John 8:40


My Father is greater than I. John 14:28


I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. John 20:17


Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness bythat man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. Acts 17:31


The head of Christ is God. 1 Corinthians 11:3


And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. 1 Corinthians 15:28


Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Colossians 3:1


For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5


Jesus Christ: who is ... on the the right hand of God. 1 Peter 3:21-22


​
Click to expand...

These are no problem for those of the Trinitarian/Binitarian persuasion, but definitely conflicts with Modalism (a form of Unitarianism). I do not have time to go through each of these, but I would like to point out a couple of things quickly.

The references to sitting at the right hand of God does one thing only: it shows a distinction of persons, something Trinitarians/Binitarians would concede. When we read in Scripture that Christ is seated at the right hand of the Majesty, the idea is not that Jesus is seated on a separate throne, but rather that He is co-occupant of the great white throne, seated at the Father's side (Rev 3.21 ["I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne"], 22.3 ["The throne of God and of the Lamb"]).

You also cite Mark 10.18 ("And Jesus said to him, 'Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone'"); however, Christ does not respond by saying, ‘I am not good, only God is good.’ Rather, Christ responded enigmatically, forcing the rich man to think. Jesus is not rebuking the man and in the process denying that He Himself is good. Rather, He is using a penetrating question to push the man to think through the implications of his own words to Jesus. So Jesus' question to the man is designed to draw him to recognizing Christ's divine identity. It becomes exceedingly difficult to suggest that Jesus could not be divine from this passage, especially in light that He is "the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being" (Heb 1.3).
 
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