Jesus is God !

[GraceBeUntoYou]

There is only one God .He is the creator and he has all the powers.He does not has any son or daughter.He is above such things..
He sent prophets in this world for guidance of human beings.All prophets asked people to worship One God.And all prophets were human beings......

There is not a single prophet in the OT that would have dared to have said the things that Christ said.

Nowhere do any of the OT prophets address God in such a personal way as Jesus does. When invoking God, Christ addresses Him as “Father,” and in like manner, Christ refers to Himself as “the Son of God.” Moses, nor David, nor Noah, nor Abraham – none of them – address God as “Father,” nor do they ever make such explicit claims of themselves to be “the Son of God,” or “a son of God.” For an individual to come and speak the way Jesus did… clearly, Jesus was making claims that had huge implications. Jews had a very specific vocabulary, and Christ far exceeded that vocabulary by way of His claims.

Jesus did not speak as the OT prophets (“thus says the LORD"), but as One with great authority unlike any of the prophets or scribes ("I say unto you"), see Matthew 7.28-29.

I think one of the clearest examples of Christ's supreme authority can be seen in the Sermon on the Mount. For years I struggled with this text (Matthew 5) as I battled with the Law vs. Grace issue. And as a Sabbatarian, for the longest time I thought the point of the Sermon was to bring light to the Law. That is, Christ was giving the true meaning of Moses and contrasting that with the distortions of Moses by the Pharisees. But it took me years to finally discover that through His "You have heard it said... But I say unto you" statements, what Christ was doing here was expressing His authority over the Law. He wasn't merely bringing into full focus the true meaning, but seems to be changing the Law, and in fact transcending (or "raising the bar" so-to-speak) the Law. What makes this glaringly obvious is what Christ says in Matthew 5.38-42,

“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.”


​

If what Christ was doing here was bringing light to the Law, rather than transcending it, then how in the world would anyone ever take “an eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth” to really mean, “turn the other cheek”? Thus, it seems apparent to me that this is a display of Christ's authority, an authority over the Law that no OT prophet would ever dare declare.

But of course, you, being Muslim, would of course argue that the NT is replete with forgeries and suggest that the first copies of the NT were more in line with Islamic thought.

 

[GreenNnice]

Yes, He is

 

[psychomom]

I dont understand why everyone (not attcaking you Hoffco) says "co-equal" when Yahshua Himself said:

Yahchanan (John) 14:28, "You have heard that I told you: I go away, but come again to you. If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."

Yahshua is not the Father.

John 10:30
“I and the Father are one.”

 

[GraceBeUntoYou]

And there is more.

The NT states that Jesus is God:

1) Jesus is the YHWH of Isa 40:3 per Mt 3:3; Mk1:7-8; Lk 3:16; Jn 1:29-34.

2) Jesus is the YHWH of Joel 2:32 per Ro 10:9, 13-16.

3) Jesus is the YHWH of Dt 32:43 per Heb 1:6.

4) Jesus is the LORD (YHWH) of Zechariah per Lk 1:67-68, 76.

5) Jesus is the LORD (YHWH) of Elizabeth per Lk 1:41-43.

6) Jesus is the LORD GOD (YHWH) of Ps 68:18 per Eph 4:8-9.

7) Jesus is the LORD (YHWH) of Zec 12:8-10 per Jn 19:37.

8) Jesus is the LORD (YHWH) of Isa 61:8 per Lk 4:18-21.

9) Jesus is the LORD (YHWH), the First and Last of Isa 44:6, 48:12 per Rev 1:12-18.

10) Jesus is the Lord God, the Alpha and the Omega of Rev 21:6-7 per Rev 22:13-16.

11) Jesus is God on the throne of Rev 21:5, 7 per Jn 5:22, 27, 9:39; Rev 20:11-13.

12) Jesus is the Elohim Creator YHWH of Gen 1:1; Isa 44:24; and Jer 10:16 per Jn 1:3, 10;
Col 1:16-17; Heb 1:2, 10.


The NT states that the Holy Spirit is both a person and God:

1) Jesus, whom the NT shows to be God (above), said the Holy Spirit proceeded from
(came forth from, out of) God just as he did per Jn 15:26.

2) Jesus, who is God, said the Holy Spirit was another Comforter like himself (God) per Jn 14:16-17,
25-26, 15:26, 16:7.

3) The NT refers to the Holy Spirit with
personal pronouns (he),
personal titles (Comforter) and
personal functions (intelligence, will, speaking, deciding, forbidding, testifying, searching into secrets,
showing the future, sending out missionaries, interceding),
because he is a person.

Jesus presents the Triune God:

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." (Mt 28:19)

The NT presents Father, Son and Holy Spirit at the baptism of Jesus.

"At that moment heaven was opened, and Jesus saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him.
And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased." (Father speaking.)

Scripture presents three separate persons in the one being of God.

I would argue that while the Septuagint-YHWH passages used of Christ (i.e., Hebrews 1.10-12 [Psalm 102.25 LXX]; 1 Peter 2.3 [Psalm 33.9 LXX]; 1 Peter 3.14-15 [Isaiah 8.12-13 LXX]; Romans 10.9-13 [Joel 2.32]; Philippians 2.10 [Isaiah 45.23]) is very good evidence, there's additional evidence that goes overlooked by the average layman. So many people wish to focus on whether Christ is ever referred to as "God," or is given the Divine Name by the NT authors. However, even those in academia that hold to Unitarian view would admit that Jesus is indeed referred to as "God," and is even referred to as YHWH, but just not in the absolute sense (i.e., agency). So the question is no longer whether Jesus is given the Divine titles, or the Divine Name. Rather, the focus has shifted towards the communal cultic worship of Christ in the early Christian community -- prayer (John 14.14; 2 Corinthians 12.8-9), hymnic practices (Philippians 2), the Lord's Supper, doxologies to Christ (1 Peter 3.8). Also quite important is Christ’s relation to the Holy Spirit. Throughout the Pauline corpus (Romans 8.9-10; Philippians 1.19; Galatians 4.6) the “Spirit of Christ,” and “Spirit of God” are used synonymously, and/or interchangeably of one another, invariably teaching the complete, and total Deity of Christ.

Additionally, the NT authors describe Christ’s relationship to the Holy Spirit in terms analogous to those previously used to picture God's relationship to the Spirit. In the Hebrew Scriptures, the Spirit is presented as an extension of God's personality and activity. The Spirit is God's "hand" (Ezek. 3.14; 8.1-3; 37.1) and His "breath" (Job 33.4; 34.14), His power and presence (Ps. 139.7). When the Spirit departed from Saul (1 Sam. 16.14), that meant that God had departed from him (1 Sam. 18.12). Similarly, in the NT, Jesus is described as being in and with those who are led by the Spirit (Matt. 18.20; John 14.23).

When Peter speaks of Christ as the One who has poured out the Spirit in the events of Pentecost (Acts 2.33), this means that Christ, exalted to God’s right hand, is Lord of the Spirit, and the Spirit is His executive power. The Spirit is related to Christ just as the Spirit has been related to God. According to Jewish understanding it is YHWH who would “in the last days… pour out my Spirit on all flesh” (Acts 2.17-21 [c.f. Joel 2.28-32]). Ironically enough, here Christ is the one who poured out the Spirit at Pentecost (Acts 2.33), and even in this very sermon, Peter attributes the same verbiage used of YHWH to Christ, “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

 

[Elin]

I would argue that while the Septuagint-YHWH passages used of Christ (i.e., Hebrews 1.10-12 [Psalm 102.25 LXX]; 1 Peter 2.3 [Psalm 33.9 LXX]; 1 Peter 3.14-15 [Isaiah 8.12-13 LXX]; Romans 10.9-13 [Joel 2.32]; Philippians 2.10 [Isaiah 45.23]) is very good evidence, there's additional evidence that goes overlooked by the average layman. So many people wish to focus on whether Christ is ever referred to as "God," or is given the Divine Name by the NT authors. However, even those in academia that hold to Unitarian view would admit that Jesus is indeed referred to as "God," and is even referred to as YHWH, but just not in the absolute sense (i.e., agency).

Well, of course a Unitarian would deny that Scripture means what it states when it states
that Jesus is God.

Pardon my skepticism, but on what basis does "academia" decide that the Scriptures do not mean what they state, but really mean something which basically negates what they state?

Matters not that academia needs to trim the jib of truth to fit the sail of their speculation,
borne along on the wind of doubt.

But as for me and my house. . .

< BTW, I think the hair style is fine. >

 

[GraceBeUntoYou]

Well, of course a Unitarian would deny that Scripture means what it states when it states
that Jesus is God.

Pardon my skepticism, but on what basis does "academia" decide that the Scriptures do not mean what they state, but really mean something which basically negates what they state?

Matters not that academia needs to trim the jib of truth to fit the sail of their speculation,
borne along on the wind of doubt.

But as for me and my house. . .

< BTW, I think the hair style is fine. >

Of course, not all of academia is Unitarian. The vast majority is by in large, Trinitarian.

It’s important to understand arguments advanced by Unitarians, especially those select few in the academic arena, because it’s only time before others begin to parrot/mimic their arguments.

As I pointed out, those Unitarians in academic circles would not deny that Christ is referred to as “God,” or to as YHWH, but would argue because Christ is God’s agent/representative, He may be referred to as such (c.f. Exodus 23.21-22). Orthodoxy has parried this through several different lines of evidence:

1. The relation between the risen Lord and Christians corresponds — as a pattern — solely to language concerning YHWH’s relation to Israel in Second Temple Judaism.
2. Communal worship of Christ in the early Christian communities (i.e., doxologies, hymns, prayer, practices such as the Lord’s Supper, and rites such as baptism).
3. Christ’s relation to the Holy Spirit.
4. Early Judaism had clear ways of distinguishing God absolutely from all other reality. When NT Christology is read with this Jewish context in mind, it becomes clear that early Christians did not break with Jewish monotheism; rather, they simply included Jesus within the unique identity of Israel's God.
   

The only legitimate object of prayer is the one true God, whom the OT calls YHWH. YHWH alone is the only proper recipient of prayer—and the only deity who really is there and able to answer prayer. So confident of this point was Elijah, the prophet of YHWH, that he challenged the prophets of Baal to a contest in which “the god who answers . . . is indeed God” (1 Kings 18.24).

It would be completely foreign to argue that God had appointed anyone to hear or to respond to prayers as His agent. And there is no Biblical passage teaching that God has assigned to Jesus the responsibility of hearing and answering prayers on God’s behalf. Thus, if Christ can hear and answer prayer (John 14.14), what would that indicate?

 

[Elin]

Of course, not all of academia is Unitarian. The vast majority is by in large, Trinitarian.

It’s important to understand arguments advanced by Unitarians, especially those select few in the academic arena,
because it’s only time before others begin to parrot/mimic their arguments.

As I pointed out, those Unitarians in academic circles would not deny that Christ is referred to as “God,” or to as YHWH, but
would argue because Christ is God’s agent/representative,

Their argument is based on their conclusion of agent/representative before their conclusion is demonstrated.

He may be referred to as such (c.f. Exodus 23.21-22). Orthodoxy has parried this through several different lines of evidence:

1. The relation between the risen Lord and Christians corresponds — as a pattern — solely to language concerning YHWH’s relation to Israel in Second Temple Judaism.
2. Communal worship of Christ in the early Christian communities (i.e., doxologies, hymns, prayer, practices such as the Lord’s Supper, and rites such as baptism).
3. Christ’s relation to the Holy Spirit.
4. Early Judaism had clear ways of distinguishing God absolutely from all other reality. When NT Christology is read with this Jewish context in mind, it becomes clear that early Christians did not break with Jewish monotheism; rather, they simply included Jesus within the unique identity of Israel's God.
   

The only legitimate object of prayer is the one true God, whom the OT calls YHWH. YHWH alone is the only proper recipient of prayer—and the only deity who really is there and able to answer prayer. So confident of this point was Elijah, the prophet of YHWH, that he challenged the prophets of Baal to a contest in which “the god who answers . . . is indeed God” (1 Kings 18.24).

It would be completely foreign to argue that God had appointed anyone to hear or to respond to prayers as His agent. And there is no Biblical passage teaching that God has assigned to Jesus the responsibility of hearing and answering prayers on God’s behalf. Thus, if Christ can hear and answer prayer (John 14.14), what would that indicate?

Thanks for your battle on the front lines of academia.

God did not equip me for such.

I don't like wrestling the word of God (2Pe 3:16) as Unitarians do.

 

[svedbygrace]

God is Judge Himself ! cont

Now many Blasphemers contend that if Christ is also God, then why has it been given of the Father to Him to be Judge of all Mankind ? However it is to their folly, the very fact that God the Father gave such a business to the Man Christ Jesus, is the Father's attestation that the Son is God also, for none other than God could be qualified to Judge all Mankind, who is God.

So it will be also at this Time, The Great Day of Judgment and Wrath, that all mankind will confess [agree with, say the same thing] That Jesus Christ is Jehovah LORD to the Glory of the Father, since the Father has always attested to the Son being God. Phil 2:9-11

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord[Jehovah], to the glory of God the Father.

Jn 5:22-23

22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Thats because the Judge of Mankind must be Essentially God for such a Business !

Heb 1:8

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Christ's Kingdom here will Judge the World at His Coming 2 Tim 4:1

I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

At which His sceptre will appear to be Righteous Rev 15:3-4

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.

Thats How its going to be to the Glory of God the Father, and thats how and why all men will Honor the Son [As Jehovah God] as they do the Father, in the Day of Judgment, for which why the Father appointed Him Supreme Judge.

Then men will confess it, the difference being then however, those who are now being made to confess it at Judgment day, who did not before,they will be confessing it on their way to perdition 2 Pet 3:7

But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
So those of us who are reading these words now, and do not believe the Man Christ Jesus is also Jehovah God, the Supreme Judge f all mankind, be sure we will confess it so in that Day, when we shall be consigned into perdition !617

 

[svedbygrace]

Was Jesus Created ?


Does the scripture teach that Christ was in any way Created or Generated ? Yes it does, The Lord Jesus Christ as the Son of God, Begotten of the Father, from Everlasting was Created or Begotten. The Lord Jesus Christ in His Person and Character as the Son of God, The Mediator, He is the very first production of God's Power, that is to say the Firstborn of Every Creature that God Made, such is revealed in scriptures like Rev 3:14

14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Proverbs 8 reads here Prov 8:22-23

22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

This is what Jesus is referring to in Rev 3:14, for He is the Wisdom of God 1 Cor 1:24.

Now the word possessed Vs 22 is the Hebrew word qanah and means:

to get, acquire, create, buy, possess

Now to Create also means to:

to cause to come into being, as something unique that would not naturally evolve or that is not made by ordinary processes

Also :to make by investing with new rank or by designating; constitute; appoint: to create a peer.

And so Prove 8:23 says of Him

23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

This word set up is the Hebrew nacak and means:

to pour out, pour, offer, cast

a) (Qal)

1) to pour out

2) to cast metal images

3) to anoint (a king)

b) (Niphal) to be anointed

c) (Piel) to pour out (as a libation)

d) (Hiphil) to pour out libations

e) (Hophal) to be poured out

2) to set, install

a) (Qal) to install

b) (Niphal) to be installed

So Christ from Everlasting ,and by the Power of the Father was brought into existence as The Mediator and anointed and installed in that Office, as the Only Unique Son of God, of Highest Rank in Creation.

This is something accomplished in Eternity, also in this begetting, He was given a Seed a People in Him, which is also why He was made the pattern to which Adam was Created in the beginning with a people in him, and be made the fitting figure of Him that was to Come Rom 5:14

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Hence its no difference in saying the Son of God was begotten from Everlasting, than saying He was Created from Everlasting in this Capacity, as the Son of God.

Also in this capacity He is inferior than the father, because the Father beget Him, though it was before Time began, and from Everlasting.

Now in also stating this, we believe also that the Son of God in His Essential Nature, the Word of God, The Logos, that He is the Essential God, Co Equal with the Father Jn 1:1, and also in this Nature He is Unbegotten, Uncreated, and The Great I AM, So He is both Beings in One. It is folly to teach and believe that He in His Essential Nature as God the Word, that He was begotten or Created or Generated, that would make Him a Begotten, created or Generated God, a derived God or Godhead and we consider that Blasphemy at its Highest ! Now I know my adversaries are going to twist and misrepresent this post, but its the Truth I had to witness to !627

 

[XYZ]

'You are my son, whom I love' - God speaking to Jesus. Clears that one up pretty well for me.

 

[Kia123]

One question, who is Jesus praying to, when he prays ?
i really dont understand this

 

[Elin]

One question, who is Jesus praying to, when he prays ?
i really dont understand this

The NT reveals three divine (deity) agents, with the attributes of God.

There are three separate persons in the one being of God.

The person of the Son prayed to the person of the Father.

The person of the Holy Spirit makes effective the wills of the persons of the Father and the Son.

 

[svedbygrace]

Who is this Judge ?

James 5:9

Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door. 629

 

[svedbygrace]

That Jesus is God as revealed in the scripture, is understood when we read these things specifically of Him Jn 1:1-3

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Col 1:16

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Cp Prov 16:4

4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Clearly the same Being is meant here in Prov 16:4 and He in Jn 1:1-3; Col 1:16 which we know means Christ !

Jesus is the Saviour, and the Saviour of Israel is the LORD Jehovah, the God of Israel Isa 43:3

For I am the Lord thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.

And He is the same Saviour of Israel here Acts 13:23

23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:630

 

[p_rehbein]

To savedbygrace........

I'm not exactly clear concerning your stance on "was Jesus created?"

Read through it a couple of times now, and am still not quite clear.......

Not to agree or disagree, but my thought is............NO...........Jesus IS God, God the Son, part of the Holy Trinity. Just as God IS, so Jesus IS.........

Jesus said: John 8:58) Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

I'm going with Jesus on this one.

 

[svedbygrace]

p_r

I'm not exactly clear concerning your stance on "was Jesus created?"

I posted what I believe in post 49. Read it !

 

[p_rehbein]

p_r



I posted what I believe in post 49. Read it !

Yes, I know, and I did read it, three times now, and still not exactly sure....

Do you believe Jesus was "created?"

YES______________

NO_______________

(guess this would help )

 

[GreenNnice]

Yes, He is. Scripture points this out many times, in many ways. Christ is Him And, don't forget He's He in us too. One God, three distinct beings, or persons. Can God create HImself out to be THREE when He is One?

You decide. Can He Could He? Did He? And, maybe, an as important question to those wondering, Why would He?

To show us the power of Himself, the Truth of Himself, the Love of Himself, the Spirit of Himself, and, The Way to Himself, to name just a few reasons WHY


having come to us on Earth through Holy Spirit form into the virgin, Mary, and, out to the world, soon to be known as Jesus. And, yes, yes, yes, this God is spoken of in this DISTINCT way having come many times over in His Word, His Way, who was and is and is to come.

 

[svedbygrace]

p-r

Do you believe Jesus was "created?"

Did you read 49 ? If you have and still don't know what I believe, then you wont know from me.

 

[Elin]

Yes, I know, and I did read it, three times now, and still not exactly sure....

Do you believe Jesus was "created?"

YES______________

NO_______________

(guess this would help )

Jesus of Nazareth was created, possessing two natures, human and deity.
His deity, God the Son, was not created.