Jesus turned water into unfermented wine and not fermented wine.

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StandingFirmInChrist said:
And what you constantly dismiss is the fact that unfermented grape juice was also known as "wine" in the Word of God.
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I have not debated that, but the word for wine used in the scripture we have been discussing, Jesus turning water to wine.
Oy'-nos means fermented.

So you and others can use what ever other scriptures you like, but it does not change the meaning in this one.
 
Re: No grape juice here...

StandingFirmInChrist said:
And everywhere in the Old Testament where people were drinking alcoholic wine, God's judgment followed.
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Only if they got drunk off it.

A glass of alcoholic wine a day is not a sin, nor is it bad. It actually has health benefits.
 
kennethcadwell said:
The problem is that the negatives of things have been drilled so hard into their minds, they can no longer focus or see the advantages or how something can be used for good.

Then when we defend it or other issues, they say don't apply, was not meant for us, or say that we make the Lord out to be a tempter or contributor to ones sin.

They can not see that the Lord our God makes all things, people misuse and do wrong with what is given.
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So, your advice would be for us to deny God and embrace alcohol.

No thanks, I'm safer in the position I presently hold.
 
kennethcadwell said:
I have not debated that, but the word for wine used in the scripture we have been discussing, Jesus turning water to wine.
Oy'-nos means fermented.

So you and others can use what ever other scriptures you like, but it does not change the meaning in this one.
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I agree. Words have meaning that were meant to be understood otherwise they are meaningless.
 
StandingFirmInChrist said:
So, your advice would be for us to deny God and embrace alcohol.

No thanks, I'm safer in the position I presently hold.
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If you drink a glass a day, you are not denying God.

Once again I will say to you as I have done to others;
Do you blame God when you commit a sin, do to He created you with a sinful nature and the item that was part of the sin ?
 
lisa79 said:
I will put it to you this way and will say nothing more. You are standing at the judgement throne and Christ gives you a cup to take to the Father you cant drink of this cup.... if it is not good you die .....is the wine Good? Do you trust Jesus or google? You still dong know the door that has been opened of where you stand ...if you did you would bow down. The Lord has given me prophecy and a vision. I would like to have blessed you with it but I will not cast pearls at your feet...
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The cup Christ gives will not have the power to intoxicate. Your illustration is flawed.
 
Re: No grape juice here...

StandingFirmInChrist said:
And everywhere in the Old Testament where people were drinking alcoholic wine, God's judgment followed.
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Genesis 14:18: "And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was priest of the MOST HIGH GOD." (KJV)

I will anxiously await you explaining the judgment that followed.

Or was that grape juice perhaps?

Who do you think Melchizedek was?

Do you think Melchizedek himself may have enjoyed some of the bread and wine he served up?
 
kennethcadwell said:
I have not debated that, but the word for wine used in the scripture we have been discussing, Jesus turning water to wine.
Oy'-nos means fermented.

So you and others can use what ever other scriptures you like, but it does not change the meaning in this one.
Click to expand...
Oinos was either fermented or unfermented. You see oinos and automatically take "alcoholic" on it. Yet the text of John 2 proves that the oinos Christ made could not have been alcoholic.

Had it been alcoholic, He would have been contributing to man's drunkenness... further helping them down the road to perditon. Christ did not come to help man in his sin, but to deliver man from his sin.

If only you could grasp that fact.
 
Re: No grape juice here...

kennethcadwell said:
Only if they got drunk off it.

A glass of alcoholic wine a day is not a sin, nor is it bad. It actually has health benefits.
Click to expand...
There's a way that seems right to man, but the end is death.

Pretty sure God is not going to judge me as unworthy for teaching abstinence..
 
kennethcadwell said:
If you drink a glass a day, you are not denying God.

Once again I will say to you as I have done to others;
Do you blame God when you commit a sin, do to He created you with a sinful nature and the item that was part of the sin ?
Click to expand...
Since God's Word tells me to abstain, if I drink one sip, I have denied God and chosen that which He has forbidden. Like Adam, if I partake of that which God has showed me is taboo, I will have rebelled against Him.
 
Re: No grape juice here...

JackH said:
Genesis 14:18: "And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was priest of the MOST HIGH GOD." (KJV)

I will anxiously await you explaining the judgment that followed.

Or was that grape juice perhaps?



Who do you think Melchizedek was?

Do you think Melchizedek himself may have enjoyed some of the bread and wine he served up?
Click to expand...

It was grape juice. God would not drink anything that is decayed or processed by bacteria meaning their poop. Alcohol is yeast poop. But, the fruit of the vine is pure grape juice packed with vitamins and nutrients.

Melchizedek is Jesus, Abraham fell down and worshiped Him, this is not a man, Then gave Him 10% of everything He had. The name means Prince of peace and that is Jesus is Jehovah Shalom My Prince of Peace and provides the peace that surpasses all understanding.
 
Re: No grape juice here...

JackH said:
Genesis 14:18: "And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was priest of the MOST HIGH GOD." (KJV)

I will anxiously await you explaining the judgment that followed.

Or was that grape juice perhaps?

Who do you think Melchizedek was?

Do you think Melchizedek himself may have enjoyed some of the bread and wine he served up?
Click to expand...
The Bible does not say that wine that Melchizedek served was alcoholic. Since God's Word says not to look upon the fermented drink, I highly doubt that the wine he served was alcoholic.
 
Re: No grape juice here...

StandingFirmInChrist said:
Funny, I don't see the word "alcohol" in that verse.
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Look closer. The Hebrew word yayin is translated to wine in Ps. 104:15. Yayin comes from the root yayan, which means to ferment. That means, to anybody with a brain bigger than a pea, the wine is alcoholic.
 
StandingFirmInChrist said:
Oinos was either fermented or unfermented. You see oinos and automatically take "alcoholic" on it. Yet the text of John 2 proves that the oinos Christ made could not have been alcoholic.

Had it been alcoholic, He would have been contributing to man's drunkenness... further helping them down the road to perditon. Christ did not come to help man in his sin, but to deliver man from his sin.

If only you could grasp that fact.
Click to expand...

Sorry but that is wrong, oy'-nos is fermented.

And along with oy'-nos here are the other words used for wine in the NT and their meanings.

oy'-nos: wine, from yah-yin: meaning to effervesce (or fermented). (Used most places throughout the New Testament.)
glyoo'-kos: (or glucose or a liquid fruit sugar), or a syrupy sweet fruit juice. (Used only one time.)
par'-oy-nos: (From two words: 1. Para: near and 2. G3631 wine), meaning addicted to wine. (Used only twice.)
oy-of-loog-ee'-ah: (From two words: 1. G3631 wine and 2. Floo'or-os: bubbly or to talk incessantly), meaning drunkenness or drunk on wine. (Used only once.)
 
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