Judgement
- Thread starter Hizikyah
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M
MidniteWelder
Guest
Well, the difference between the two, and it's the difference between darkness and light,
is that in the former they are with full knowledge and full consent deciding and choosing
to actually reject Christ and his sacrifice for sin, whereas in the latter there is not a decision
and choice to reject Christ.
Then would you agree Elin, that it matters not whether one goes back to Judaism or Muslim or Satanism or Atheism or even just stops following period.
The principle behind it being as We are told by Christ in Matthew 12
"Whoever is not with him, is against him."
Would you also agree with the fact that those who have been enlightened, tasted of and accepted the holy gift of salvation, and those who God has made it plain to, but then rejected him have no excuse.
Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Then would you agree Elin, that it matters not whether one goes back to Judaism or Muslim or Satanism or Atheism or even just stops following period.
The principle behind it being as We are told by Christ in Matthew 12
"Whoever is not with him, is against him."
Would you also agree with the fact that those who have been enlightened, tasted of and accepted the holy gift of salvation, and those who God has made it plain to, but then rejected him have no excuse.
Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
No, I would not agree. It is one thing to taste it. Anyone who is in church and sees and witnessess the blessings of being saved in others, and even feels the blessing by association one gets when surrounded by the church tastes the heavenly gift.
It does not mean they were ever saved.
M
MidniteWelder
Guest
It does not mean they were ever saved.
.....precisely
Yet also, if one claimed to be saved but then rejects him, is that not the same as blaspheming the holy spirit
It depends on how you look at it. According to the flesh I have been unemployed for almost a year now. My extended unemployment benefits of $230 every two weeks after child support and taxes is taken out is sheduled to end Dec 29th. Besides that, my sister husband and brother helps out with the rent.You say nothing that is Biblical.
So who pays for your lodging, gas and light?
Now the bible says that when a man decides to throw away all to follow Christ, he would be at odds with even members of his own house hold. Naturally I hear it from my brother about getting a job, and what I'm talking about is foolishness. So if you understand beloved, this is my war! I am human just like you. In this, we all have sin. So the things I teach here, I teach myself.
But I believe they are put in my life for this very purpose! Because the bible taught me that all things work for good. So let them who worry about paying rent, pay it. Who really takes care of us? God or a paycheck?
I can be called every name in the book by my family, but God knows I can take it.
I worked most of my life with nothing to show. And yet I gave my heart to every job! Pray for me that I am successful at this job as well which I desperately set my heart to do! My spirit is willing, but my flesh is as weak as yours.
But if I am to die regardless of whether I make money or not, then let me do so BODLY by putting Him to the test. If He is who He say He is, then He will not forsake me.
On the words of two or three witnesses, ANYTHING STANDS! All I need is another to provide me warmth.
And to add, everything I say is 100 percent backed by scripture. But as I said in another thread, I can make a post FOR the trinity and then one AGAINST the trinity, BOTH BACKED BY SCRIPTURE.
So again what determines ones path in those scriptures is the heart. In other words he goes the path that satisfies HIMSELF.
I say that if we get rid of money and simply work so that all can enjoy life free of charge, and somehow many believe that's unbiblical?
If that is the case, then there must be money in heaven!
So again what determines ones path in those scriptures is the heart. In other words he goes the path that satisfies HIMSELF.
I say that if we get rid of money and simply work so that all can enjoy life free of charge, and somehow many believe that's unbiblical?
If that is the case, then there must be money in heaven!
". . .and he who does not gather with me scatters."Then would you agree Elin, that it matters not whether one goes back to Judaism or Muslim or Satanism or Atheism
or even just stops following period.
The principle behind it being as We are told by Christ in Matthew 12
"Whoever is not with him, is against him."
It's not quite that simple, MidniteWelder,
The above is spoken in the context of the Pharisees' accusation that he had an alliance with Satan and drove out demons by Beelzebub, the prince of demons.
In the conflict between Christ and Satan, there is no middle ground for difference.
In that great conflict, if you are not totally for Christ, then you are totally against him.
Christ came to gather in those whom the Father had given him.
If you are not acting to gather them in, then you are acting to scatter them from him.
There is no alliance and no common ground between Christ and Satan, as the Pharisees alleged in their false charge.
And Christ draws a hard line in the sand.
This principle would apply to any who choose to reject Christ.
But in Lk 9:50:
"for whoever is not against you is for you."
. . .different context.
The difference here is between those who are setting up the kingdom through the gifts of God.
Those who are using those gifts for the kingdom are not using them against the kingdom,
even though they themselves may not be of the kingdom.
This is the principle that would apply to those whose discipleship is weak, but who are not against Christ, or who do not make a decision and choice to reject him.
Well actually Heb 6:4-6 is speaking of those who have heard and received (accepted) the gospel.Would you also agree with the fact that
those who have been enlightened, tasted of and accepted the holy gift of salvation,
and those who God has made it plain to, but then rejected him have no excuse.
Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
Ro 1:20 is not speaking of those who have heard the gospel, or who have even been given any instruction on God.
Their knowledge of God comes only from nature (creation).
So, the passages are not referring to the same thing.
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What will your new job be?It depends on how you look at it. According to the flesh I have been unemployed for almost a year now. My extended unemployment benefits of $230 every two weeks after child support and taxes is taken out is sheduled to end Dec 29th. Besides that, my sister husband and brother helps out with the rent.
Now the bible says that when a man decides to throw away all to follow Christ, he would be at odds with even members of his own house hold. Naturally I hear it from my brother about getting a job, and what I'm talking about is foolishness. So if you understand beloved, this is my war! I am human just like you. In this, we all have sin. So the things I teach here, I teach myself.
But I believe they are put in my life for this very purpose! Because the bible taught me that all things work for good. So let them who worry about paying rent, pay it. Who really takes care of us? God or a paycheck?
I can be called every name in the book by my family, but God knows I can take it.
I worked most of my life with nothing to show. And yet I gave my heart to every job! Pray for me that I am successful at this job as well which I desperately set my heart to do! My spirit is willing, but my flesh is as weak as yours.
But if I am to die regardless of whether I make money or not, then let me do so BODLY by putting Him to the test. If He is who He say He is, then He will not forsake me.
On the words of two or three witnesses, ANYTHING STANDS! All I need is another to provide me warmth.
Perhaps I can come along side (paraclete) you.
No......precisely
Yet also, if one claimed to be saved but then rejects him, is that not the same as blaspheming the holy spirit
From the context, you can see that blaspheming the Holy Spirit is calling the Holy Spirit's work Satanic.
If you believe the work of the Holy Spirit is the work of Satan, then you will accept no evidence from the Holy Spirit that Jesus is the Savior.
You have barred your door from Jesus ever entering, and so your sin is unable to be forgiven by faith in the blood of Christ (Ro 3:25).
It's not about being saved and then rejecting Jesus, it's about barring him completely from the start.
And to add, everything I say is 100 percent backed by scripture. But as I said in another thread, I can make a post FOR the trinity and then one AGAINST the trinity, BOTH BACKED BY SCRIPTURE.
No, you cannot make anything both affirmed and denied in Scripture.
It is your misunderstanding of the texts that sets them against each other, not the texts themselves.
What determines the truth of the Scriptures is the Scriptures correctly understood, and that is in the light of the NT.So again what determines ones path in those scriptures is the heart. In other words
he goes the path that satisfies HIMSELF.
Because you are assuming that all would be conscientious and faithful, and that none would be slaggard or lazy.I say that if we get rid of money and simply work so that all can enjoy life free of charge, and somehow many believe that's unbiblical?
That is not Biblical when the Bible tells us that whoever sins is a slave to sin, which is everyone.
Your systems makes no account for sin, and that is definitely not Biblical.
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M
MidniteWelder
Guest
". . .and he who does not gather with me scatters."
There is no alliance and no common ground between Christ and Satan, as the Pharisees alleged in their false charge.
And Christ draws a hard line in the sand.
This principle would apply to any who choose to reject Christ.
This is the principle that would apply to those whose discipleship is weak, but who are not against Christ, or who do not make a decision and choice to reject him.
I agree with you Elin, These are the points I was trying to target, the Principles to be more precise
As we mentioned perviously, God shows no favoritism whether we are white or black or red or live in America or China.
His principles ...apply to each one of us equally.
The bible has a multitude of "principles which arent exactly laid out and addressed clearly.
Many see the black and white
Thou shalt not Murder,
Thou shalt not steal etc
But not the reasons listed why behind what God asks what he asks of us as his followers.
Im not questioning why, but many people do, they sit back and think well why follow, well why cant I steal or lie if it serves my own purpose etc.
I can just confess to God after. Even though its said such people dont enter the kingdom
The problem I see with that is they arent hearing God or listening to his word.
Theyre playing the part, just like Judas
And when they arent hearing God, do they really belong to God, or if they once did have they now rejected him.
Here is an account taken in the context of people claiming God to be their father
And Jesus clearly pointing out they are mistaken.
They are mistaken because he starts of by saying If God were their Father they would Love him.
Yet they werent hearing him, or caring to listen.
43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil,and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me?
47 He who belongs to God hears what God says The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."
So what Im saying is if they dont love him, they dont obey his commands, they dont hear his voice and they obviously dont belong to God until something...until what?
If God has already called them, and they're not listening, how are they not rejecting him ?
How are they not being a Judas for deceptively playing the part, then selling Christ out.
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E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
.....precisely
Yet also, if one claimed to be saved but then rejects him, is that not the same as blaspheming the holy spirit
Yes, But as John says, They left because they were never of us (saved) for if they were of us, they would continue to be with us,
They did not lose salvation, They never had it.
M
MidniteWelder
Guest
Yes, But as John says, They left because they were never of us (saved) for if they were of us, they would continue to be with us,
They did not lose salvation, They never had it.
I suppose so
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Is what I propose better than letting 30,000 kids die a day from lack of money?No, you cannot make anything both affirmed and denied in Scripture.
It is your misunderstanding of the texts that sets them against each other, not the texts themselves.
What determines the truth of the Scriptures is the Scriptures correctly understood, and that is in the light of the NT.
Because you are assuming that all would be conscientious and faithful, and that none would be slaggard or lazy.
That is not Biblical when the Bible tells us that whoever sins is a slave to sin, which is everyone.
Your systems makes no account for sin, and that is definitely not Biblical.
I believe that all men will be saved. The scriptures support my belief. You may think otherwise but to you the scriptures support it. The only difference is what that individual desires.
But it is very difficult to teach spiritual things when we are yet unfaithful in the things we see, knowing we all leave these things to others after death.
22 And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the Lord your God.
23 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.
25 Ye shall do no servile work therein: but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord.
leviticus 23: 22-25
K
Kerry
Guest
[h=3]1 Timothy 3:5-7[/h]King James Version (KJV)
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
So what do yall make of this. Was the novice saved or not?
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
So what do yall make of this. Was the novice saved or not?
M
MidniteWelder
Guest
you suppose? So John might be wrong?
No, Im not supposing John to be wrong.
Im supposing there is also another circumstance not being addressed.
What of those whose names may be blotted out of the book of life.
Can they be blotted out unless the names were there to begin with?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
No, Im not supposing John to be wrong.
Im supposing there is also another circumstance not being addressed.
What of those whose names may be blotted out of the book of life.
Can they be blotted out unless the names were there to begin with?
Maybe everyones name is written there, and blotted out at death when the time to repent and be saved is too late?
I must ask. Is God omniscient or not? Is anyone ever going to do something God did not know they would do before they were even born?
Not everyone who professes to have saving faith actually possesses saving faith.I agree with you Elin, These are the points I was trying to target, the Principles to be more precise
As we mentioned perviously, God shows no favoritism whether we are white or black or red or live in America or China.
His principles ...apply to each one of us equally.
The bible has a multitude of "principles which arent exactly laid out and addressed clearly.
Many see the black and white
Thou shalt not Murder,
Thou shalt not steal etc
But not the reasons listed why behind what God asks what he asks of us as his followers.
Im not questioning why, but many people do, they sit back and think well why follow, well why cant I steal or lie if it serves my own purpose etc.
I can just confess to God after. Even though its said such people dont enter the kingdom
The problem I see with that is they arent hearing God or listening to his word.
Theyre playing the part, just like Judas
And when they arent hearing God, do they really belong to God, or if they once did have they now rejected him.
Here is an account taken in the context of people claiming God to be their father
And Jesus clearly pointing out they are mistaken.
They are mistaken because he starts of by saying If God were their Father they would Love him.
Yet they werent hearing him, or caring to listen.
43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil,and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me?
47 He who belongs to God hears what God says The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."
So what Im saying is if they dont love him, they dont obey his commands, they dont hear his voice and they obviously dont belong to God until something...until what?
If God has already called them, and they're not listening, how are they not rejecting him ?
How are they not being a Judas for deceptively playing the part, then selling Christ out.
So just because they say thet were or are saved does not necessarily mean that they are.
By their fruits you will know them.
Those who are truly saved trust and obey.
Those who are not truly saved, do not.
And yet, we can't know what God has in store for them, whether he will bring them out of the darkness of their counterfeit faith or not, or whether they are just so totally ignorant and he must illumine them.
We can only make an apparent determination based on what we see.
But this we can know, if one is truly saved, they will not perish.
They may lapse like David, but God will bring them to repentance and forgiveness.
They will never be lost.
And yes, not to believe in Jesus is to reject him.
It's past your bed time.Is what I propose better than letting 30,000 kids die a day from lack of money?
I believe that all men will be saved. The scriptures support my belief. You may think otherwise but to you the scriptures support it. The only difference is what that individual desires.
But it is very difficult to teach spiritual things when we are yet unfaithful in the things we see, knowing we all leave these things to others after death.
22 And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the Lord your God.
23 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.
25 Ye shall do no servile work therein: but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord.
leviticus 23: 22-25
Time to get some rest.