Justification has not come about because of anything believers are capable of achieving on their own
- Thread starter Peterlag
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Yes it does. That is if your are living in a body of death as evidence .
Why make God the liar.? Do you think he can deny us when we sin seeing the wage has ben paid in full ?
The foolish Galatians in chapter 3 denied him having no God in their hearts. (atheism)
2 Timothy 2:12-14 King James Version (KJV) If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
The question is. Can he deny his own self if he began the good work? Do Christians have a false confidence? Or must he be crucified over and over thousands of times to public shame each time we do deny him in unbelief (no faith)
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Not "based on nothing" ... based on your own callous treatment of God's Word:
Post #32 - your reply to Angela53510 after she shared her delight in continuing to read God's Word:
Post #40 - your reply to me after I asked you if you believed there was no need to read Scripture:
Post #50 - your response to Scripture posted (Jer 15:16 - Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.)
Post #54 - your reply to Chester after he made the statement "the depths of the riches of God's Word are not mined by just one reading and our study and understanding will always find more of the depths of the riches of our blessed Lord!":
Post #59 - your reply to Chester after he stated "If we say we have learned all of what Scripture has for us, then we claim to be as knowledgeable as the Word (Jesus). For me, I will honestly admit I have a lot yet to learn from the Scriptures."
Post #64 - your reply to Chester after he stated "OK, but reading the Scriptures does not usually drag a person back down!":
Post #87 - your reply to Angela53510 after she stated "We do Your theology is very poor. I guess that's what you get for abandoning the Bible, and probably church"
Post #95 - your reply to DorothyMae after she pointed out the benefits of continuing to read Scripture:
As you can see (well maybe you can't), my "strong statements" were not "based on nothing".
My "strong statements" were based on your overly high opinion of yourself.
Post #32 - your reply to Angela53510 after she shared her delight in continuing to read God's Word:
I have reasons to believe the Bible is for the purpose to take us someplace. And then we graduate and and don't have much need to read it again. We graduate from grade school, high school, and collage. I noticed not to many graduate from reading the Bible.
Post #40 - your reply to me after I asked you if you believed there was no need to read Scripture:
Why do we continue to read the same book over and over? We don't do that with any of our school books or any other book that we read.
Post #50 - your response to Scripture posted (Jer 15:16 - Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.)
Did Jeremiah continue to eat the same words over and over? He would probably starve if he had to keep trying to eat the same food over and over.
Post #54 - your reply to Chester after he made the statement "the depths of the riches of God's Word are not mined by just one reading and our study and understanding will always find more of the depths of the riches of our blessed Lord!":
So we can never learn? It's too hard?
Post #59 - your reply to Chester after he stated "If we say we have learned all of what Scripture has for us, then we claim to be as knowledgeable as the Word (Jesus). For me, I will honestly admit I have a lot yet to learn from the Scriptures."
Okay. But don't drag me back down to have to keep reading it.
Post #64 - your reply to Chester after he stated "OK, but reading the Scriptures does not usually drag a person back down!":
I graduated. Why repeat the same grade over?
Post #87 - your reply to Angela53510 after she stated "We do Your theology is very poor. I guess that's what you get for abandoning the Bible, and probably church"
Ever leaning and never able to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Post #95 - your reply to DorothyMae after she pointed out the benefits of continuing to read Scripture:
I must have tapped into something because I don't have those problems.
As you can see (well maybe you can't), my "strong statements" were not "based on nothing".
My "strong statements" were based on your overly high opinion of yourself.
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No I didn't.
Follow the sequence and here is what you will find:
You replied to yourself at Post #125:
I then responded at Post #133 and you replied at Post #144 and I am now responding to your accusation.
You learn anything from your students? Now, that's funny!!!
I did not "mis-quote" your statement ... nor did I "pull them out of context". As far as you not responding to me? fine by me. But I will continue to respond to your complete mishandling of Scripture.
Follow the sequence and here is what you will find:
You replied to yourself at Post #125:
I then responded at Post #133 and you replied at Post #144 and I am now responding to your accusation.
You learn anything from your students? Now, that's funny!!!
I did not "mis-quote" your statement ... nor did I "pull them out of context". As far as you not responding to me? fine by me. But I will continue to respond to your complete mishandling of Scripture.
In regards to the bible anyone believer who loves to read his word and finds joy in it probably has a better understanding of it than one who thinks it is a thing to graduate from.
I couldn't tell if he was claiming to be a prophet or not but if he does then it kind of makes sense why he thinks the way he does. False prophet are abundant these days after all most not even meaning to intently misleading just not understanding what a prophet is or what they are for.
I have seen a couple of so called prophets who think along the line as him self elevated viewing themselves as more than what they are seeing their own words and thoughts being above God's word ect.
Again I wasn't sure if he was claiming to be one but I hope not because a prophet is to encourage uphold and uplift the church, guiding and speaking through the spirit I have seen no such thing with thing. Not to mention a prophet's words always lead to and point to God not ones self, if anyone is a prophet at times it us understandable to say where you walk prophetically but he seems to much about himself to be one
I couldn't tell if he was claiming to be a prophet or not but if he does then it kind of makes sense why he thinks the way he does. False prophet are abundant these days after all most not even meaning to intently misleading just not understanding what a prophet is or what they are for.
I have seen a couple of so called prophets who think along the line as him self elevated viewing themselves as more than what they are seeing their own words and thoughts being above God's word ect.
Again I wasn't sure if he was claiming to be one but I hope not because a prophet is to encourage uphold and uplift the church, guiding and speaking through the spirit I have seen no such thing with thing. Not to mention a prophet's words always lead to and point to God not ones self, if anyone is a prophet at times it us understandable to say where you walk prophetically but he seems to much about himself to be one
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I never understood the whole debate on fiath vs works it really doesn't seem compliacted to me, faith without works is dead and visa versa but faith also produces works like how a tree produces fruits and works helps produce faith in the same manner they aren't two separate things against each other they are two sides of the same coin
I guess I may never understand why it has to be such a heated and complicated thing
I guess I may never understand why it has to be such a heated and complicated thing
That actually makes perfect sense, I mean it seems to work pretty well and in my opinion it seems like 3rd grade level doctrine it really isn't hard and yet it seems to be made out so complicated.
I have to admit I sometimes wonder if certain people are selected to be a ( christian) on a christian forum just to troll and stir the pot up, I mean I know there is a site from a few years ago where a group of atheists gather to boast of their achievments of stirring up trouble in cc so it may not be all that out of the ball park.
I have to admit I sometimes wonder if certain people are selected to be a ( christian) on a christian forum just to troll and stir the pot up, I mean I know there is a site from a few years ago where a group of atheists gather to boast of their achievments of stirring up trouble in cc so it may not be all that out of the ball park.
If not better than Peterlag ... at least better than what Peterlag allows that you understand.
I understand the excitement about discussion of our walk in the Spirit ... which is the same as saying we abide in the Lord Jesus Christ and the same as our putting on the new man ... this lifestyle is so dynamic and wonderful. And we could be having an ongoing and uplifting discussion on this issue, but some are in denial as to the subtlety of the workings of our flesh and how we are drawn away.
Just because we are drawn away does not mean we are living in sin. it just means we have taken our focus off of the Lord Jesus Christ and that is when we need to turn back to the Lord Jesus Christ, put off the old where we can be enticed to sin ... put on the new where we are able to overcome (and not fulfill) the lusts of the flesh.
I understand the excitement about discussion of our walk in the Spirit ... which is the same as saying we abide in the Lord Jesus Christ and the same as our putting on the new man ... this lifestyle is so dynamic and wonderful. And we could be having an ongoing and uplifting discussion on this issue, but some are in denial as to the subtlety of the workings of our flesh and how we are drawn away.
Just because we are drawn away does not mean we are living in sin. it just means we have taken our focus off of the Lord Jesus Christ and that is when we need to turn back to the Lord Jesus Christ, put off the old where we can be enticed to sin ... put on the new where we are able to overcome (and not fulfill) the lusts of the flesh.
James doesn't open it up for debate. He emphatically states:
What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but does not have works? Can this kind of faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacks daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, keep warm and eat well,” but you do not give them what the body needs, what good is it? 17 So also faith, if it does not have works, is dead being by itself. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith without works and I will show you faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; well and good. Even the demons believe that—and tremble with fear. James 2: 14-19.
Both sides work together, so there should be no debate at all. There are two very important points he is making here:
1. Works without faith will not save you
2. There is no evidence of your faith without works
It's a bit tricky, isn't it? On one hand, you have Paul emphatically stating in Ephesians 2:8-9 that you cannot be saved through works. But then you have James very forcefully telling us that faith without works is dead. it seems contradictory, doesn't it?
I agree with the commentary of Thomas Constable and others who agree that James wasn't even talking about salvation here. He was merely stating that even though we are saved by faith, we are pretty useless to God if we don't do anything with it. It becomes a "dead" faith.
We should never let James 2: 14-19 be an excuse to try and save ourselves by merely working through charity organizations.
Neither should we use Ephesians 2:8-9 as an excuse for not giving of our time, talent, and treasure to the poor and needy.
What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but does not have works? Can this kind of faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacks daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, keep warm and eat well,” but you do not give them what the body needs, what good is it? 17 So also faith, if it does not have works, is dead being by itself. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith without works and I will show you faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; well and good. Even the demons believe that—and tremble with fear. James 2: 14-19.
Both sides work together, so there should be no debate at all. There are two very important points he is making here:
1. Works without faith will not save you
2. There is no evidence of your faith without works
It's a bit tricky, isn't it? On one hand, you have Paul emphatically stating in Ephesians 2:8-9 that you cannot be saved through works. But then you have James very forcefully telling us that faith without works is dead. it seems contradictory, doesn't it?
I agree with the commentary of Thomas Constable and others who agree that James wasn't even talking about salvation here. He was merely stating that even though we are saved by faith, we are pretty useless to God if we don't do anything with it. It becomes a "dead" faith.
We should never let James 2: 14-19 be an excuse to try and save ourselves by merely working through charity organizations.
Neither should we use Ephesians 2:8-9 as an excuse for not giving of our time, talent, and treasure to the poor and needy.
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yes ... and I believe in new heaven/new earth that oneness of mind will not be relegated to "local" church only. all who enter into the gates of the city will be of one mind. the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it ... the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there ... there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie (Rev 21:24-27). 