Justified/Saved by Faith & Faith Alone

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HeIsHere

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May 21, 2022
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Did James say their faith was once alive? Did he say they ever had faith?
He called them beloved brothers.

My brethern count it all joy when ye fall into diverse temptations........

This is to believers, so yes they are saved and had out their trust in Jesus for salvation.
 

HeIsHere

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May 21, 2022
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I could care less what Augustine said

I care what james said. Do you?
You should care, we should all care because the commentaries, pulpits and the internet has teachings based on his faulty understanding of the book of James.

We should always be aware of false teaching which has been incorporated into the faith.

Along with the fact of the emotional toll this has taken on people, being taught to look to their works to see if they are saved.
 

HeIsHere

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No it's not, the letter to the Romans was written to counter and explain the error of Jesus plus the law. The difference between the true gospel and the hybrid gospel, Jesus plus the law. That the Christian Jews in Rome were spreading through the church in Rome.

The letter to the Galatians was identical to the letter to the Romans, same problem.
Where does Paul talk about mere faith?
 

HeIsHere

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May 21, 2022
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Why do you think it's YOUR JOB to "Judge anybody".

Seems like it's YOUR relationship that your problem.
Thank you for your personal comment, but you do not know me. The fruit inspectors are the ones that argue there must be works for their to be salvation.

That would not be me, when one correctly understands James, this whole Lordship salvation dogma melts away and their is no judgment and works inspection.

I am actual aware that we still have a nature, the flesh, the world and Satan with which to contend.

So far no one can state which work and how many specifically validates salvation so we know they are saved
 

HeIsHere

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May 21, 2022
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So what's YOUR definition of "DEAD FAITH"??? WHat did James mean??
"Dead" in James means useless, not being used, inoperative.

A dead body is still there, it was never non-existent.

I think we need to be logical.

If a person has faith, but they do not have works, this does not mean that their faith does not exist, or that it never existed.
No, the incorruptible seed is still there, even though the works are not.

But in such a situation, faith is not accomplishing the purpose and goal which God intended for it.
The faith is dead. The absence of works is not allowing the faith to carry out God’s plan and purposes in the world.
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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Anyone can do these things.

While yes, we should do these things as believers, the point of most all the letters is what we SHOULD be doing, not that it WILL do it, as in we have no choice.

If I choose not to a good work am I unsaved?
The works that are evidence of faith are those born out of the work God does in us. As God works in us, the fruit of the Spirit will be evidenced in our words and actions. There will be a display of love and peace and joy and gentleness and longsuffering as we interact with the world.
The evidence can be seen in the works done; but, more so, it is seen in the manner in which they are performed.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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Works cannot prove something that was not acquired by works. Period.
Sure can.
"Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." - James 2:18
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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This is basically back loading works onto salvation.
Not.
Works are the evidence, not the precipitator.

Tell me is a good work/discernment when someone believes salvation is losable?
We live by faith, not by works. All things hinge on faith.
"Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him." - Hebrews 10:38

Tell me where is the Spirit there?
The Spirit is a gentleman and will not abide where not wanted and welcomed.

To me that is the absence of works, should I judge someone as not saved then?
No, but it may be appropriate to express concern.
 

HeIsHere

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May 21, 2022
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Not.
Works are the evidence, not the precipitator.


We live by faith, not by works. All things hinge on faith.
"Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him." - Hebrews 10:38


The Spirit is a gentleman and will not abide where not wanted and welcomed.


No, but it may be appropriate to express concern.

How come your faith didn’t necessitate you to be sinlessly perfect today?
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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He called them beloved brothers.

My brethern count it all joy when ye fall into diverse temptations........

This is to believers, so yes they are saved and had out their trust in Jesus for salvation.
every book is written to believes. but also has warnings in case there are people there who are not genuin believers.

Does your pastor give the gospel? Why would he, if he is preaching a message to believers.. "Brothers and sisters. today we will talk about...."
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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You should care, we should all care because the commentaries, pulpits and the internet has teachings based on his faulty understanding of the book of James.

We should always be aware of false teaching which has been incorporated into the faith.

Along with the fact of the emotional toll this has taken on people, being taught to look to their works to see if they are saved.
no, I should not care.

I should just care what the bible says.

Calvin has many errors. So does Augustine, So does Luther. So does many theologians.

we should not be followers of men, but followers of God.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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You should care, we should all care because the commentaries, pulpits and the internet has teachings based on his faulty understanding of the book of James.

We should always be aware of false teaching which has been incorporated into the faith.

Along with the fact of the emotional toll this has taken on people, being taught to look to their works to see if they are saved.
you have yet torespond to my post. I will repost again Can you show how the below is wrong?

James states plainly.

James 2: 14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone claims he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

this is the context of what james is saying

1. He does not say they have faith, he said they CLAIMED to have faith
2. He asked the question. can this "claimed" faith save them (salvation is in question)

He is talking to people who claim they have faith, who say they are questions. he is asking them, if you claim you have faith but have no works, can faith really save you??

he then states that CLAIMED faith is dead (no faith at all)

again, a faith that is dead is no faith at all.. It can not save!!
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
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New Zealand
"Dead" in James means useless, not being used, inoperative.

A dead body is still there, it was never non-existent.

I think we need to be logical.

If a person has faith, but they do not have works, this does not mean that their faith does not exist, or that it never existed.
No, the incorruptible seed is still there, even though the works are not.

But in such a situation, faith is not accomplishing the purpose and goal which God intended for it.
The faith is dead. The absence of works is not allowing the faith to carry out God’s plan and purposes in the world.
Agree 100 percent.

James is using examples of people who already are converted and using their faith for God.

They still have their conversion if they didn't do the acts they did.

Finally some one reading James the same way I do! :)
 

Bob-Carabbio

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Jun 24, 2020
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Thank you for your personal comment, but you do not know me. The fruit inspectors are the ones that argue there must be works for their to be salvation.

That would not be me, when one correctly understands James, this whole Lordship salvation dogma melts away and their is no judgment and works inspection.

I am actual aware that we still have a nature, the flesh, the world and Satan with which to contend.

So far no one can state which work and how many specifically validates salvation so we know they are saved
Easy NO WORK proves anything. A SAVED person is saved BY FAITH, and FAITH KNOWS - period. if you don't KNOW you're born again of the Spirit, and good to go, THEN YOU'RE NOT. Simple as that.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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Agree 100 percent.

James is using examples of people who already are converted and using their faith for God.

They still have their conversion if they didn't do the acts they did.

Finally some one reading James the same way I do! :)
Awesome!!:)(y)

And it is the correct way, logical, considers the audience, the time period and the culture of the time.
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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Agree 100 percent.

James is using examples of people who already are converted and using their faith for God.

They still have their conversion if they didn't do the acts they did.

Finally some one reading James the same way I do! :)
Then why did James ask if that faith could save them if they were already saved?
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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Awesome!!:)(y)

And it is the correct way, logical, considers the audience, the time period and the culture of the time.
again,

Why did James ask them if that faith could save them?

It’s NOT logical. To ask someone if that CLAIMED faith could save them if they were already saved. Is it?
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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again,

Why did James ask them if that faith could save them?

It’s NOT logical. To ask someone if that CLAIMED faith could save them if they were already saved. Is it?
I will get back to this but I am a little busy right now.

I do enjoy a hearty discussion and am not the type to back away at least not usually. :)
 

Komentaja

Active member
Jul 29, 2022
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Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is (substantiated, evidenced) by works. (James 2:14-24).

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.*

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*
Which is why I think the "sola fide" idea is just so ridicilous. ALL the reformers who believed in Sola Fide and invented the phrase also believed that " living faith is never alone" because thats what dozens maybe hundreds of verses teach.

Therefore, why even call it faith alone? if "real faith" is never alone? I'll tell you why, because we must be different from the catholics so lets do it like this, gonna be real catchy.