Kenneth Copeland says God is the biggest failure??

[TLC209]

I watched online how Kenneth Copeland claims God is the biggest failure. He eludes on Adam sinning against Him. Lucifer turning against Him. A third of the angels turning against Him. And so Kenneth Copeland claims God is a failure. The "biggest" failure...

Which lead me to question this. God doesnt make mistakes so He must have intended for these things to happen. He made lucifer knowing his nature and what he would do. He also made Adam knowing he would eat the forbidden fruit. He planned all of that.

If that is correct then He cannot be a failure, because He made it so. It would be His doing for Adam to sin and Lucifer to turn against Him. This is my only logical explanation as to why God is not a failure.

Id like comments on your thoughts. Please dont attack the messenger. You can google it or search on youtube for yourselves. "Kenneth Copeland says God is the biggest failure". His words not mine.

 

[Guojing]

I watched online how Kenneth Copeland claims God is the biggest failure. He eludes on Adam sinning against Him. Lucifer turning against Him. A third of the angels turning against Him. And so Kenneth Copeland claims God is a failure. The "biggest" failure...

Which lead me to question this. God doesnt make mistakes so He must have intended for these things to happen. He made lucifer knowing his nature and what he would do. He also made Adam knowing he would eat the forbidden fruit. He planned all of that.

If that is correct then He cannot be a failure, because He made it so. It would be His doing for Adam to sin and Lucifer to turn against Him. This is my only logical explanation as to why God is not a failure.

Id like comments on your thoughts. Please dont attack the messenger. You can google it or search on youtube for yourselves. "Kenneth Copeland says God is the biggest failure". His words not mine.

you should at least post the entire sermon instead of just lifting a minute of it, unless of course you want to deliberately quote him out of the context.

 

[dcontroversal]

Are you sure that he was not being facetious? Not that I for one second believe anything he says or even preaches.......just saying that it seems like off the cuff he could be being facetious to prove a point??

 

[Whispered]

Copeland has long been known to be a false teacher. Five private jets. When asked about this by a reporter and just before the IRS made a sham of "auditing" certain TV evangelists, Copelands response was, that's none of your business!
But it is! When his ministry is a tax exempt 501(c)3 religious entity, it is every taxpayers business.
And Copeland's wife? Well, she says both she and her husband have authority over the weather.

 

[TLC209]

you should at least post the entire sermon instead of just lifting a minute of it, unless of course you want to deliberately quote him out of the context.

How can you take that out of context? He explains himself. When you explain your words, you cant be taken out of context. He repeats himself as well. Not sure what more we need to hear to somehow take this out of context?

 

[Guojing]

How can you take that out of context? He explains himself. When you explain your words, you cant be taken out of context. He repeats himself as well. Not sure what more we need to hear to somehow take this out of context?

You posted a video that is less than 2 mins long, I am saying post the entire sermon if you want to have a fair exchange.

If someone for example is trying to explain the divine exchange on the cross using the law of double jeopardy, and in context, made a point that if God still punish man for his sins after he put his faith in Jesus, God will be unjust.

Its very easy to just lift a particular part in that sermon and then try to say that the preacher is saying God is unjust for punishing sins in man.

 

[Timothy5378]

Many false teachers..prophets and Christ's will arise and deceive many

It's that time...people don't want to read the Bible and learn the whole truth and nothing but the truth

People want a TV remote and sin

I know people who study much and watch TV much and none can divide the Word correctly...they read and study then drink in the sin

ONCE you get rid of TV and live your life yourself instead of thru wicked famous people...then you read 8 hours a day and lead people to Christ 8 hours a day...then you walk out the house and you think everything people say about is contrary to the Bible

But I mean it

You read a month..the Bible in context 8 hours a day...and then have no TV that month and then go outside you will see...the world is wicked...people are wicked...but if you conform to the Word...you won't be wicked

I don't miss TV...i hate the stuff there
Vice

The Bible after 50 to 100 times thru I still love for its flawless KJV

Perfect

And no other book is...nothing in the Christian book store is

Only the Word

Just learn and pray over that


I'm so close to God..tbe miracles and compliments people give me each day that I'm the best...i gave all..i arrived now... so in heaven..so on earth

The HS will teach you all truth

 

[EternalFire]

Many false teachers..prophets and Christ's will arise and deceive many

It's that time...people don't want to read the Bible and learn the whole truth and nothing but the truth

People want a TV remote and sin

I know people who study much and watch TV much and none can divide the Word correctly...they read and study then drink in the sin

ONCE you get rid of TV and live your life yourself instead of thru wicked famous people...then you read 8 hours a day and lead people to Christ 8 hours a day...then you walk out the house and you think everything people say about is contrary to the Bible

But I mean it

You read a month..the Bible in context 8 hours a day...and then have no TV that month and then go outside you will see...the world is wicked...people are wicked...but if you conform to the Word...you won't be wicked

I don't miss TV...i hate the stuff there
Vice

The Bible after 50 to 100 times thru I still love for its flawless KJV

Perfect

And no other book is...nothing in the Christian book store is

Only the Word

Just learn and pray over that


I'm so close to God..tbe miracles and compliments people give me each day that I'm the best...i gave all..i arrived now... so in heaven..so on earth

The HS will teach you all truth

Perhaps your closeness with God will result in a little more humility.

Luke 18:10-14
Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

 

[Nehemiah6]

If that is correct then He cannot be a failure, because He made it so. It would be His doing for Adam to sin and Lucifer to turn against Him. This is my only logical explanation as to why God is not a failure.

Let's set aside Copeland for a moment since he is a false teacher. Let's focus on what you concluded.

What should be evident from the Bible is that BECAUSE God gave men and angels free will, He allowed for the possibility of sin to enter into the world. And He even foresaw the outcome before creation. Therefore the Lamb of God was slain from BEFORE the foundation of the world. God had an excellent plan behind all of this from the beginning.

But God did not decree sin and evil, and God did not encourage it. Quite the opposite. Because Adam was given a clear warning about the consequences of disobedience, he had only himself to blame. As to Lucifer, he was blinded by his own pride and arrogance. But when all is said and done the New Heavens and the New Earth will be established, and sin and evil will be banished form the earth.

Christians are the only ones who have the privilege of knowing the end from the beginning. At least in broad outline. That is all the more reason for Christians to take the Gospel to every creature.

 

[Timothy5378]

Perhaps your closeness with God will result in a little more humility.

Luke 18:10-14
Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

You know...moses was the humblest man...think he took garbage like this...job did too...what did Joseph say....the day will come you will all bow to me...he was not well received...but he was right in the Lord...i know HIM well..in nothing was I behind the cheifest apostles though I be nothing...i just what HE made me

 

[TLC209]

Let's set aside Copeland for a moment since he is a false teacher. Let's focus on what you concluded.

What should be evident from the Bible is that BECAUSE God gave men and angels free will, He allowed for the possibility of sin to enter into the world. And He even foresaw the outcome before creation. Therefore the Lamb of God was slain from BEFORE the foundation of the world. God had an excellent plan behind all of this from the beginning.

But God did not decree sin and evil, and God did not encourage it. Quite the opposite. Because Adam was given a clear warning about the consequences of disobedience, he had only himself to blame. As to Lucifer, he was blinded by his own pride and arrogance. But when all is said and done the New Heavens and the New Earth will be established, and sin and evil will be banished form the earth.

Christians are the only ones who have the privilege of knowing the end from the beginning. At least in broad outline. That is all the more reason for Christians to take the Gospel to every creature.

Thanks for being the only person to respond to my post. Everyone else has wandered off the topic.

Well the only conclusion to discredit Kenneth Copeland in his satement, saying that He had nothing to do with Adams choice to sin by definition would credit God as a failure. Even by your response would actually validate Kenneth Copeland. If He gave Adam free reign then by Adam sinning it was a failure on Gods part. That would be why it grieved Him and repented for making man.

But heres another thing to condider. God knew man before He created the foundations of the earth. He knows all things beginning and end. So in that belief, I made the conclusion that He knew Adam would sin and made Adam anyways. So that cannot be a failure if you predestine it to be so.. on the contrary if God did not know then He would not be all knowing and furthermore would have failed in creating man who would sin against Him.

As for Lucifer, Lucifer was an angel. I dont recall them having free will. So they were made with a specific purpose to glorify God and praise Him day and night? So how did Lucifer break Gods will? He would have to been predisposed to do this.. hence once again it would be Gods will in that case. Because if Lucifer broke Gods will and rebelled then he most definitely gave God His first failure. And Kenneth would be correct.

This is the topic, this is the debate. Did God predispose for Adam and Lucifer to go against Him? He is the creator and everything is by design. So how could it not be Gods plan? If it is anything else suggests a failure. A mistake in Gods plan... that cant be correct.

 

[Timothy5378]

Well what God created is good and is free willed...even the squirrel...so people are not forced to sin...they choose it...or can not always be aware if it all...but Adam and Lucifer chose to sin and fall...Adam recovered...the fallen angels don't...God does not make or predetermined sin in for He does not even tempt man or angel with Sin...so free will really is free and sin can be chosen or not...

Those Jews in Moses time had lots of light but they picked there sins and...it was not Moses or God's fault...they went to hell for they wanted wickedness...the people during the flood to...people have a there thoughts and they are responsible for them...God can never be blamed for programming sin in...unless one goes to far and He hardens one's heart...

Maybe he predetermines and knows all...but free will is always present...

 

[TLC209]

Well what God created is good and is free willed...even the squirrel...so people are not forced to sin...they choose it...or can not always be aware if it all...but Adam and Lucifer chose to sin and fall...Adam recovered...the fallen angels don't...God does not make or predetermined sin in for He does not even tempt man or angel with Sin...so free will really is free and sin can be chosen or not...

Those Jews in Moses time had lots of light but they picked there sins and...it was not Moses or God's fault...they went to hell for they wanted wickedness...the people during the flood to...people have a there thoughts and they are responsible for them...God can never be blamed for programming sin in...unless one goes to far and He hardens one's heart...

Maybe he predetermines and knows all...but free will is always present...

So He made Adam and Lucifer as failures. God didnt fail.. is that safe to say what you are inferring?

 

[Timothy5378]

Got does not make anything but perfect...both.Adam and Lucifer chose to sin...God knew it...but He still made them...most of mankind will be in hell...but God still went thru with it...its HIS Way

 

[TLC209]

Got does not make anything but perfect...both.Adam and Lucifer chose to sin...God knew it...but He still made them...most of mankind will be in hell...but God still went thru with it...its HIS Way

Yes I agree. Thats my whole point. He made them that way. Its all pre-destined. If its not His will or His plan He wouldnt have made Lucifer with pride. He made him so beautiful and better than all the other angels that pride was the result. Pride cannot come from itself. It has to be created. God is the creator.

For example the forbidden tree in the garden. It was created. It did not just appear on its own. God created it. So if it were evil God is the one who created the tree of good and evil. The bibles teaches that nothing that was made was not made through the Word. So we must apply this to pride, and the tree of good and evil.

Unless you wish to say satan is a creator? He created the tree of forbidden fruit? He created pride? He created rebellion? Satan would be the first creator after God. But there is only one creater. That is God.

So the point you made erlier about God not making sin or predetermining Adam and Lucifer not to sin, how do you explain this?

 

[Guojing]

Yes I agree. Thats my whole point. He made them that way. Its all pre-destined. If its not His will or His plan He wouldnt have made Lucifer with pride. He made him so beautiful and better than all the other angels that pride was the result. Pride cannot come from itself. It has to be created. God is the creator.

For example the forbidden tree in the garden. It was created. It did not just appear on its own. God created it. So if it were evil God is the one who created the tree of good and evil. The bibles teaches that nothing that was made was not made through the Word. So we must apply this to pride, and the tree of good and evil.

Unless you wish to say satan is a creator? He created the tree of forbidden fruit? He created pride? He created rebellion? Satan would be the first creator after God. But there is only one creater. That is God.

So the point you made erlier about God not making sin or predetermining Adam and Lucifer not to sin, how do you explain this?

You don't believe in free will?

 

[Mii]

What are you having issues with? What this man says or what the word says?

I would posit to you that these questions are beyond the scope of any one of us "fully". We aren't greater than the enemy by ourselves, so it seems quite simple to put forth arguments and "logic" that is beyond us, or at least causes more consternation than it is worth at present until the mystery of God is finished and faith is sight. We are quite limited in the scope of what we can grasp regarding the infinite, as well as what "secret knowledge" is present.

To some it would seem that the Lord makes mistakes I presume. Since that is not scriptural, you have to make a choice to simply exercise faith. Believing on the Lord and what is laid out in the written word is all you can really do. I've seen many people go for the logic angles but the result is just "not enough for me".


I could counter a lot of these logical pitfalls with what I believe the Lord has sown into me through my own questioning but there will be always be something that sets itself up against the Lord until every knee bows and every tongue confesses that Jesus is Lord. Some new thing to wrap your mind around, to try and "prove things". Logic will only take you so far and so since the written word that anyone (new and old man alike) does not speak to these things any private revelation (I feel) will not assist anyone "really".

Humanistic knowledge and wisdom sets itself up against knowledge and wisdom of the Lord. That is logical to me based off my understanding of scripture. So it seems futile to discuss anything that "goes beyond what is written". It seems to me that a lot of believers do this unintentionally (with good motivation most times probably) but this is where I only enter a conversation when someone is actually thirsty and is hung up on something in their mind. I will say that the Lord meets me quite often in the mental sphere with things like that...and I have many counters, but they are personal. Perhaps if you seek him in this area privately it will yield fruit?

My motivation is usually the first thing I look at when pursuing things like this privately. When it's "just because" or I can't narrow it to anything productive or "reasonable" I usually don't get anywhere. If it's to help others, "how" would that help others? Sure you see it on TV, but how many people get hung up on stuff like this? Surely there are some, I think that's the point. The sheep know the shepherds voice and a stranger they will not follow. They may be led astray, and that is something I believe we can help with, but if they are following someone else other than Jesus, they probably aren't sheep.

Do you have any good reason for the pursuit? Plenty of "preachers" go FAR from the permissible pasture of the Lord and so their motivations for bringing these things up in such a fashion is dubious at best.

 

[TLC209]

You don't believe in free will?

If youre not going to add value to the conversation, im not going to be answering your questions for the sake of answering you. What for.

 

[Timothy5378]

Well I have some issues with some of what you said...but I think you mean well

GOD only creates good and perfect...he does not build in sin or defects

Lucifer was perfect and yes smartest and most beautiful...but that did not make him fall...He is the father of lies and doer of all wrong...God does not create pride in people they do that...each of us has the ability to choose...a good or evil response to what goes on....the devil being father of wrong...there is none of God in him now and he is fully responsible for it...Adam choose to sin...he knew what was going on...but he recovered...Eve too...there was no sin in either tree...God made both...free will both had and all the angels...so Satan took himself and wiped out all good in himself....he chose it as the other third that fell did....

David chose to look at Bathsheba. He lusted after her...he made clear choice after choice...as other times he made good choices...but...he was free willed...we can all do good or evil...but God does not force evil on us...evil like punishment to us he can do....but he did not create Satan...Lucifer made himself Satan all on his own...he knew who he was when he was good...but he used what he had to try and kill God and take over...go over Him....dumb...si dumb it seems hard to believe...but we do watch people who just won't stop drugs...who won't stop getting drunk...they choose gay..or fornicating...etc...people can hate instead if love when they get hurt... but sin does not work...

I hope I explained well enough

 

[Guojing]

If youre not going to add value to the conversation, im not going to be answering your questions for the sake of answering you. What for.

You mentioned about predestination so that is the natural question some readers will ask. Its a simple yes or no actually.