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There are a lot of theories about this text, some more plausible than others, but I don't see how you can possibly say there were two Ahaziahs. Given that Scripture is otherwise very good at distinguishing people with the same name, either by lineage or some other epithet. There is no such thing here.
If you actually go through and compare the two accounts of Ahaziah (2 Kings 8 and 2 Chronicles 21-22, roughly), they are virtually identical. They do the same things, talk to the same people, are killed by the person. It just seems frankly impossible that these could be two separate people, on the evidence of the text alone. There must be another alternative.
@Jason, what was your A-Ha moment with this text?
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Kerry
Guest
So what there two Ahaziah's also there are two Jeroboams what is the difference and why do you guy's keep harping on it. Is it to portray that there two if not three word of God in existent. If so I will tell you that there are many false words of God out there.
Fill me in, I am ignorant of what you are talking about.
Fill me in, I am ignorant of what you are talking about.
Re: The Authorized Geneva Bible vs that Modernist KJV, unauthorized!
How on earth does that prove that there were/are two & only 2 vulgates?
Jason, why don't you just retract?
How on earth does that prove that there were/are two & only 2 vulgates?
Jason, why don't you just retract?
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Kerry
Guest
The argument goes - the modern translations are all wrong because they think the discrepancy between 2 Chron and 2 Kings on Ahaziah's age is most likely a textual problem with the particular line of manuscripts, rather than any of the alternatives. The KJV is right, because it maintains the two different numbers for Ahaziah, and and KJV proponents believe this is correct because there is another, more probable explanation. There may WELL be another explanation, but two Ahaziahs is not it.
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Kerry
Guest
That is exactly right if Paul had not had the KJV of the NT he could not have convinced thousands in Corinth to accept our self righteousness, But then guess what he went to Galatia and told them how holy and powerful he was, because he stuck his head in water and now sin bounces off of him. He left there and went to Phillipi and said see my works and how holy I am if your lucky you might be like me cause I am it dog the dog diggity dog..
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Kerry
Guest
2Ki 8:24 And Joram slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David: and Ahaziah his son reigned in his stead.
2Ki 8:25 In the twelfth year of Joram the son of Ahab king of Israel did Ahaziah the son of Jehoram king of Judah begin to reign.
Who is Ahaziah's father in verse 24?
Who is Ahaziah's father in verse 25?
Can 2 different fathers father the same child?
How many Ahaziah's were there in Kings and Chronicles?
One Ahaziah began to reign at 22 years old, the other Ahaziah begant to reign at 42 years old.
Ahab begat Joram, Joram begat Ahaziah (1). Ahab, Joram and Ahaziah (1) were kings of Israel.
Jehoshaphat begat Jehoram, Jehoram begat Ahaziah (2). Jehoshaphat, Jehoram and Ahaziah (2) were kings of Judah. Azahiah (2) began to reign in Jerusalem at age 42.
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Kerry
Guest
1611, man don't get caught up in this delusion. Many people had different names in the bible. Jacob was Israel and the Israel was Jacob. Some times the son of the King was not chosen by God but the grandson was,
The Completion of the Word of God.
The Word of God was finished when the final words were penned upon the original Greek manuscript by John for the book of Revelation. After this, there were no more words that were to be added to God's Holy written Word. But how did these words and other documents of Scripture get passed out? Were there only original manuscripts? Were they only kept in the original languages only? Did the words lose their meaning in other languages?
The Preservation of the Word of God.
So the issue is not of one of invention or origin of the Word of God but of preservation. God's Word said He would perfectly preserve His Word for all generations. God's Word claims that it is perfect (Psalm 12:6 KJV) (Psalm 119:140 KJV) (Proverbs 30:5 KJV) and that it will be preserved for all generations (Psalm 12:7 KJV) and it will stand forever (Isaiah 40:8 KJV) (1 Peter 1:25 KJV). Therefore, seeing Scripture plainly states these facts, it then becomes an issue of a test of your faith in God's Word.
Yea, Hath God Said?
First, the problem in the church today is that nobody actually believes they have the perfect Word of God within their hands. They say they believe in the Bible but yet on some level they don't believe it. They question certain words in the Bible to fit their doctrines. They question God's Word that He preserved it perfectly for our day like He said. For many believe that the perfect Word of God either never existed or it only existed in the past. Many of these men also believe that God does not always operate within His Word. That God can sometimes operate outside the boundaries of His Word. That God can sometimes do certain things that are not shown in Scripture. That is the deception.
Yes, the Word of God is not the entirety of God, but it is the Lord's Holy inspired divine Words to us. So the Word is a part of God. Sort of like how my voice is not the entirety of me but it is a part of me.
Anyways, many people will argue that certain words in the Bible are corrupt and that God's Word is full of textual errors. How do they know? Do they have a time machine? I mean, if you can't trust one word in God's Holy Word, then how can you trust the rest of it? In fact, do you know what the Bible says about itself in regards to it's inspiration?
It says, ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God. Not some Scripture is given by inspiration of God. ALL Scripture.
2 Timothy 3:16
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"
Inspired literally means God breathed. Do you believe All of Scripture is inspired? If so, it cannot be all the modern translations combined because they do not all say the same thing.
When you repented of your sins, did you receive the Word of God (i.e. the gospel) as the words of men or did you receive them as the divinely inspired words of God for your life?
Did you receive the Word of God a second time by thinking they only exist in the Lexicons where you can look at many different definitions for words within the Bible so that you can make it say what you want it to say?
Are the Lexicons inspired?
Or is the Word of God inspired?
Did you receive the Word of God in English or Hebrew and Greek?
Why is this important?
Because the Word of God only describes a person receiving the Word of God ONCE! And you either believe that those Words are the Word of God or that they are the words of men.
The person who believes God did not preserve His Word perfectly for us today does not believe there is a perfect Word of God to truly receive. Yet they did receive it when they repented, but afterwards, they were told a lie that they could no longer trust God's Word.
Here is the passage that tell us we received the Word of God (As the very words of God) once.
1 Thessalonians 2:13
"For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe."
Yeah, but the person who does not believe they have a perfect Word of God for our day cannot help but to doubt God's Word because their training from school or from their pastor will not allow them to think any other way. They can't help but say to themselves,
"Yea, hath God said?" (Genesis 3:1 KJV)
However, these are words that are echoed in the hearts of men that go back all the way to the Garden of Eden with Satan's first question to Eve in trying to get her to doubt God's Holy Word. The question is: Will you fall for the same deception?
I believe God preserved His Word for us today (As His Word states).
It's an issue of having faith in His Word completely.
Do you believe?
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Kerry
Guest
The Ahaziah thing is being blown out of proportion One is the son of Joram and the other is the son of Ahab. It's like the name John many people have it and it makes no difference.
No delusion Kerry. The story of the two Ahaziah's are foreshadowing Christ and Antichrist I think. It's kinda hard to tell the difference between the two huh?
God cares about the details that are within His Word.
Matthew 5:18
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.*
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Kerry
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I'm not going to get into an argument about Joram/Jehoram, because it's actually not relevant. All that matters is that 2 Kings 8:25 clearly says it is talking about Ahaziah of Judah, son of Jehoram. It is that Ahaziah that is being spoken of, who reigned in Jerusalem two and twenty years, according to 2 Kings.
In 2 Chron 22:1:2, it again spells out that it is talking about Ahaziah son of Jehoram king of Judah, this time with the number of forty and two.
It is actually not relevant whether you think the Ahaziah of 2 Kings 8:24 is a different Ahaziah on the basis of the differing names of Jehoram/Joram. The fact is, both accounts clearly spell out which Ahaziah (if there was more than one in Judah) they are talking about, and it is in that context that the numbers appear to differ.
As a side note, while there is obviously an Ahaziah of Israel (son of Ahab, 1 Kings 22), it is not the same Ahaziah spoken of in 2 Kings 8:24. The fact that 8:24 is clearly speaking of a King of Judah, given the discussion of a burial in the city of David (Jerusalem), is enough to settle that point. Joram of Israel did not beget Ahaziah of Israel, and I challenge you to find a verse that unambiguously says so. Instead, Ahaziah King of Israel died, was succeeded by his brother Jehoram/Joram(2 Kings 1), who then was killed by his general Jehu in order to end the line of Ahab (2 Kings 9), an episode Ahaziah of Judah was involved in, being himself killed by Jehu but then buried in Jerusalem (2 Kings 9:28-29). Jehu then became King of Israel, with Ahaziah of Judah's mother becoming regent until his son took the throne.
In other words, 2 Kings 8:24 is speaking of Ahaziah of Judah (even though which Ahaziah is being spoken of there is irrelevant). 8:25 is clearly speaking of Ahaziah of Judah. There are two Ahaziahs mentioned in 2 Kings, but only one is spoken of in 8:24, and it is the same one spoken of in 2 Chron 22:1-2.
All of that to say.... find a better solution
I just shown a passage that is an example of God caring about His Word and you just completely disregarded it. If details didn't matter in His Word, then we would all be liberals.
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Kerry
Guest
Well what doe's it say both of them failed and I can find better representation of the cross, such as the serpent on the pole.
The Ahaziah's were men born in the sin nature. One by a an ungodly father and the other by an ungodly father
The Ahaziah's were men born in the sin nature. One by a an ungodly father and the other by an ungodly father