Could you provide the verse or passage where that is obviously stated?
Why shouldn't the vast majority (over 99%) of the church already be in heaven,? Since by the time the rapture gets around, whether pre or post trib, not very many will be left on earth to rapture. So of course the "church" will be seen in heaven. In fact, EVERY believer from Adam on is in heaven now.
Since post tribbers have actual verses that actually say what we believe (which is WHY we believe the rapture is post trib), why do you even bring up "ignorance"?
It seems better to apply that word to those who have NO clear verses about Jesus taking raptured believers to heaven.
You don't have any, and you know it. Or we'd all have seen it or them by now.
You don't have an ace up your sleeve.
Did you not notice that just three verses after Paul's classic rapture verse (4:17) He mentions concering times, The Day of the Lord? Why would Paul do that? It is because there will be no time between church age and the start of the DAY. One moment it will be church age, the the sudden rapture, and the next moment it is the Day of the Lord OR the Day of His wrath.
Did you not read that Jesus will bring WITH HIM those who have died in Christ? They much return to earth to get their BODIES back. Yes, the vast majority of the church will be in heaven but Jesus brings their spirits back with Him.
Then Paul gives us a paradigm: two groups of people with two totally different results at the same moment in time. Those alive and in Christ get raptured, and so get to "live together with Him," but the THEY and THEM who are not "In Christ" get "sudden destruction. Paul then compares the sudden destruction with God's wrath - THEY and THEM get appointments for His wrath, but those in Christ get raptured.
How many are the dead in Christ? We can only guess but many billions. I would not say 99% but the dead in Christ will be more than those who are alive and in Christ. But at the rapture, must believe all children go. So those who are alive and remain may well be half the world's population.
Since by the time the rapture gets around, whether pre or post trib, not very many will be left on earth to rapture.
Sorry, but at the REAL time of the rapture, people are going to be saying "peace and safety." I cannot picture anyone saying that after the days of GT. I think you are incorrect in this statement.
In fact, EVERY believer from Adam on is in heaven now.
I agree with you here.
Since post tribbers have actual verses that actually say what we believe (which is WHY we believe the rapture is post trib), why do you even bring up "ignorance"?
Sorry, my friend, the truth is, there is no single verse anywhere that tells us whether Paul's rapture will be pre, mid, or post. If there was such a verse, this would never be the main conversation in forums. People have been disagreeing on this for years.
I wonder if you noticed what you just did? I showed you the raptured church in heaven before the "trib" and you just blew it off as if they were dead saints. Did you notice there is not one hint in their description that they are dead - only spirits? "16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat."
It's OK. Pretribbers read all your favorite posttrib scriptures differently than you do. My point? I SHOWED YOU AN ACTUAL VERSE. Pretribbers DO have actual verses. You just read all of them differently.
By the way, I said "ignorant" of the scriptures because YOU said:
( Post 2362)
"The Olivet Discourse teaches post-tribulation rapture before the wrath of God "
Please show us ONE SCRIPTURE that would even hint of the wrath of God After the trib. How do you come up with these things? John saw God's wrath starting at the 6th seal.
You have seen verse after verse proving pretrib, but you blow them all off. I know! It makes you feel good to sound off and say we have no verses.