"Let's have a conversation"
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This is not confusion. As for division it falls along the lines of seperation from ungodliness. Be not yoked with unbelievers. Regardless if they are your family. Being against ungodliness is what happens when we follow Christ.
That is not the division I was talking about. Dividing the Church of believers comes from the devil.
That is not the division I was talking about. Dividing the Church of believers comes from the devil.
Where else could grace come from? We must defend the faith that defends us . Put on the whole armor .
Fundamentalist look to the foundation of doctrines. Destroy the foundation ...then a person can create their own doctrines .
Psalm 11:2-4 King James Version (KJV) For, lo, the wicked bend their bow, they make ready their arrow upon the string, that they may privily shoot at the upright in heart. If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do? The Lord is in his holy temple, the Lord's throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.
Fundamentalist look to the foundation of doctrines. Destroy the foundation ...then a person can create their own doctrines .
Psalm 11:2-4 King James Version (KJV) For, lo, the wicked bend their bow, they make ready their arrow upon the string, that they may privily shoot at the upright in heart. If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do? The Lord is in his holy temple, the Lord's throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.
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We cannot compromise, for God does not bargain with His word, and His nature does not change, and He cannot lie, so it will always have to be what God said and that is it, and nothing less, and nothing more, which is why God said do not add or take away from His word.
The Hegel System sets up 2 opposing forces, for it gets everyone involved for they will choose a side, and then they go back and forth, but no solution, but then a compromise, solution that brings then all together.
And during their going back and forth with each other they see the good points of the other side, that both sides have good and bad points.
1.Thesis- America, and that type of system.
2.Anti-thesis- Russia, and that type of system.
3.Synthesis- back to the first but in a higher form, the traits of both that causes them all to agree on, and brings everyone together.
God warns us of the new age movement and their false interpretation of the Bible based on the occult, and evolution, and believe people can still evolve to be greater, and spiritual, provided by the New Age Christ in the future.
And the time will come when the world will not want to endure the truth of the Bible, but want to hear it according to the new age movement where Jesus is not Lord and Savior, but a good teacher, and evolved to be an ascended master, and avatar.
Republican and Democrat, Right Wing and Left Wing, are also a Hegel principle, and notice how they are kicking it up more being against each other for it is close to the nations coming together.
Russia and America, and Republican and Democrat are working together, 2 opposing forces.
America and Russia for the governmental, political aspect of it, and Republican and Democrat for the moral, values, and beliefs aspect of it.
It gets everyone involved, and then brings them together.
America, religious, spiritual, belief in a higher power, Russia, atheist.
New age movement, atheist, but spiritual, and believe they can still evolve to be greater, and spiritual, among other things that will be compromised.
Against homosexuality, for homosexuality, against abortions, for abortions.
When the nations come together they will forbid to marry for a man and a woman for population reduction, and command to abstain from meats, nature worship.
The people for homosexuality will like it, those against homosexuality will like it for it is for a good cause to reduce population, and there is a lot of mouths to feed, and they are looking to the new age movement to evolve, and when they evolve to be spiritual there probably is no marriage anyway for men and women would be spiritual then, which the Bible says the last king, New Age Christ, will have no desire of women, and there is no abortions for no children are not being conceived, among other things that will be compromised.
The Hegel system brings them all together with a system they believe is greater than either of the 2 opposing forces alone.
Which that is the purpose for they do not believe the New Age Christ will help them to have peace, and evolve, until mankind makes the effort to cooperate with each other and try to establish peace on earth.
So they are using the Hegel system to bring them all together.
Republican and Democrat might not believe all that they say but they are playing their role in the top positions of government by going by their agenda of the 2 opposing forces.
The only way the nations will come together is if they all can agree on one agenda, and belief system set forth for the world.
That is why the Pope is giving Islam attention to get the Arab nations to come together with the world, which they will do, but the Pope does not care about Islam for he is for the new age movement, which they are bringing it out slowly, and want to unite the religions, and Christian denominations.
Some people think it is Islam that is the beast kingdom but it is not true for Islam is one sided, and one agenda, so they could never get all the nations to come together for there is no way they would side with Islam in all the nations governments, and Islam will fall before the beast kingdom which they will clash with the world, and are put down.
But the new age movement, and the Hegel system can get the nations to come together.
But it is all a deception of the devil to try to get the nations together so he can deceive them in the future to follow the New Age Christ, because it is time for God to end this sin business on earth.
The Hegel System sets up 2 opposing forces, for it gets everyone involved for they will choose a side, and then they go back and forth, but no solution, but then a compromise, solution that brings then all together.
And during their going back and forth with each other they see the good points of the other side, that both sides have good and bad points.
1.Thesis- America, and that type of system.
2.Anti-thesis- Russia, and that type of system.
3.Synthesis- back to the first but in a higher form, the traits of both that causes them all to agree on, and brings everyone together.
God warns us of the new age movement and their false interpretation of the Bible based on the occult, and evolution, and believe people can still evolve to be greater, and spiritual, provided by the New Age Christ in the future.
And the time will come when the world will not want to endure the truth of the Bible, but want to hear it according to the new age movement where Jesus is not Lord and Savior, but a good teacher, and evolved to be an ascended master, and avatar.
Republican and Democrat, Right Wing and Left Wing, are also a Hegel principle, and notice how they are kicking it up more being against each other for it is close to the nations coming together.
Russia and America, and Republican and Democrat are working together, 2 opposing forces.
America and Russia for the governmental, political aspect of it, and Republican and Democrat for the moral, values, and beliefs aspect of it.
It gets everyone involved, and then brings them together.
America, religious, spiritual, belief in a higher power, Russia, atheist.
New age movement, atheist, but spiritual, and believe they can still evolve to be greater, and spiritual, among other things that will be compromised.
Against homosexuality, for homosexuality, against abortions, for abortions.
When the nations come together they will forbid to marry for a man and a woman for population reduction, and command to abstain from meats, nature worship.
The people for homosexuality will like it, those against homosexuality will like it for it is for a good cause to reduce population, and there is a lot of mouths to feed, and they are looking to the new age movement to evolve, and when they evolve to be spiritual there probably is no marriage anyway for men and women would be spiritual then, which the Bible says the last king, New Age Christ, will have no desire of women, and there is no abortions for no children are not being conceived, among other things that will be compromised.
The Hegel system brings them all together with a system they believe is greater than either of the 2 opposing forces alone.
Which that is the purpose for they do not believe the New Age Christ will help them to have peace, and evolve, until mankind makes the effort to cooperate with each other and try to establish peace on earth.
So they are using the Hegel system to bring them all together.
Republican and Democrat might not believe all that they say but they are playing their role in the top positions of government by going by their agenda of the 2 opposing forces.
The only way the nations will come together is if they all can agree on one agenda, and belief system set forth for the world.
That is why the Pope is giving Islam attention to get the Arab nations to come together with the world, which they will do, but the Pope does not care about Islam for he is for the new age movement, which they are bringing it out slowly, and want to unite the religions, and Christian denominations.
Some people think it is Islam that is the beast kingdom but it is not true for Islam is one sided, and one agenda, so they could never get all the nations to come together for there is no way they would side with Islam in all the nations governments, and Islam will fall before the beast kingdom which they will clash with the world, and are put down.
But the new age movement, and the Hegel system can get the nations to come together.
But it is all a deception of the devil to try to get the nations together so he can deceive them in the future to follow the New Age Christ, because it is time for God to end this sin business on earth.
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hmm it seems like your working definition of 'reasoning together' involves two parties with different views talking together, both compromising and meeting somewhere in the middle.
i don't think 'reason together' necessarily has to involve both sides changing their mind & compromising. it *could* -- i would say it *usually* involves *at least one* party becoming convinced that they were in error -- but it could also be one party without any kind of opinion being taught and brought to an understanding of the truth. it's fundamentally, let's gain understanding. you don't necessarily have to have a pre-conception about something before you understand it; it could all be brand new to you.
if the scripture is true ((given)) then when God says "let us reason together" that's exactly what He means -- God is 100% correct, we are not. sit with Him and talk these things out with Him; become convinced of the truth. this isn't involving you convincing God He was wrong and needs to come around to your point of view; it's the opposite -- like you said -- and that's what God calls reasoning together.
think about the Greek schools of philosophy -- did students come there and change Aristotle's mind about what he was teaching? no, Aristotle changed their minds, and they learned from him. and this was sitting down and reasoning together.
so, i think you are right about what you were saying -- just think you have the wrong definition for the phrase. let God convince you of the right one
i don't think 'reason together' necessarily has to involve both sides changing their mind & compromising. it *could* -- i would say it *usually* involves *at least one* party becoming convinced that they were in error -- but it could also be one party without any kind of opinion being taught and brought to an understanding of the truth. it's fundamentally, let's gain understanding. you don't necessarily have to have a pre-conception about something before you understand it; it could all be brand new to you.
if the scripture is true ((given)) then when God says "let us reason together" that's exactly what He means -- God is 100% correct, we are not. sit with Him and talk these things out with Him; become convinced of the truth. this isn't involving you convincing God He was wrong and needs to come around to your point of view; it's the opposite -- like you said -- and that's what God calls reasoning together.
think about the Greek schools of philosophy -- did students come there and change Aristotle's mind about what he was teaching? no, Aristotle changed their minds, and they learned from him. and this was sitting down and reasoning together.
so, i think you are right about what you were saying -- just think you have the wrong definition for the phrase. let God convince you of the right one
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'reason together' does not necessary imply, to me, both parties compromising.
it doesn't even have to involve either party 'changing their mind' -- when i took number theory classes, we talked about many things i had never even heard of or considered. my teacher sat and reasoned with us; he didn't just write things on the board to memorize, but logically, step by step, with involved conversation between us and him, guided us towards the truth of theorems.
that didn't involve me changing my mind or compromising my position on those things, because i literally had no position on them - i had never even thought of them. and he didn't compromise either - he taught, by reasoning together with us, things that he already knew and believed.
if that makes sense?
but he 'stooped down' to where we were, in our thinking. by questioning and prodding and demonstrating truth in things, he discovered out points of view, and from them, brought us to knowledge of the truth.
can't that be what we do with people? isn't this like what Paul meant when he wrote that he became all things to all people in order to win them to Christ? if i'm going to reason with a Buddhist, i ought to understand what a Buddhist's point of view is. i ought to understand what a Mormon or an atheist or a Muslim or an Hindu is, to effectively speak to them, where they are -- right? i think you can do this without compromising the truth. i think you can also do this the wrong way and compromise - and i understand that's what you're talking about and decrying. i agree. i think there is a right way too, tho.
it doesn't even have to involve either party 'changing their mind' -- when i took number theory classes, we talked about many things i had never even heard of or considered. my teacher sat and reasoned with us; he didn't just write things on the board to memorize, but logically, step by step, with involved conversation between us and him, guided us towards the truth of theorems.
that didn't involve me changing my mind or compromising my position on those things, because i literally had no position on them - i had never even thought of them. and he didn't compromise either - he taught, by reasoning together with us, things that he already knew and believed.
if that makes sense?
but he 'stooped down' to where we were, in our thinking. by questioning and prodding and demonstrating truth in things, he discovered out points of view, and from them, brought us to knowledge of the truth.
can't that be what we do with people? isn't this like what Paul meant when he wrote that he became all things to all people in order to win them to Christ? if i'm going to reason with a Buddhist, i ought to understand what a Buddhist's point of view is. i ought to understand what a Mormon or an atheist or a Muslim or an Hindu is, to effectively speak to them, where they are -- right? i think you can do this without compromising the truth. i think you can also do this the wrong way and compromise - and i understand that's what you're talking about and decrying. i agree. i think there is a right way too, tho.
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I'm not really referring to a teacher/student relationship. But those who have matured in the Lord, and are convinced in the truthfulness of His Word. If they want to learn of the Christian faith, that's one thing, but if they come to depart their side of theology, that's another where we should not compromise.
We ought to understand where the other is coming from, through the light of Scripture and the darkness of their false system. (There really is little difference in their views), but never compromise to 'win them for Christ' as so many have fallen into the trap of the Church Growth Movement.
We ought to understand where the other is coming from, through the light of Scripture and the darkness of their false system. (There really is little difference in their views), but never compromise to 'win them for Christ' as so many have fallen into the trap of the Church Growth Movement.
hmm it seems like your working definition of 'reasoning together' involves two parties with different views talking together, both compromising and meeting somewhere in the middle.
i don't think 'reason together' necessarily has to involve both sides changing their mind & compromising. it *could* -- i would say it *usually* involves *at least one* party becoming convinced that they were in error -- but it could also be one party without any kind of opinion being taught and brought to an understanding of the truth. it's fundamentally, let's gain understanding. you don't necessarily have to have a pre-conception about something before you understand it; it could all be brand new to you.
if the scripture is true ((given)) then when God says "let us reason together" that's exactly what He means -- God is 100% correct, we are not. sit with Him and talk these things out with Him; become convinced of the truth. this isn't involving you convincing God He was wrong and needs to come around to your point of view; it's the opposite -- like you said -- and that's what God calls reasoning together.
think about the Greek schools of philosophy -- did students come there and change Aristotle's mind about what he was teaching? no, Aristotle changed their minds, and they learned from him. and this was sitting down and reasoning together.
so, i think you are right about what you were saying -- just think you have the wrong definition for the phrase. let God convince you of the right one
i don't think 'reason together' necessarily has to involve both sides changing their mind & compromising. it *could* -- i would say it *usually* involves *at least one* party becoming convinced that they were in error -- but it could also be one party without any kind of opinion being taught and brought to an understanding of the truth. it's fundamentally, let's gain understanding. you don't necessarily have to have a pre-conception about something before you understand it; it could all be brand new to you.
if the scripture is true ((given)) then when God says "let us reason together" that's exactly what He means -- God is 100% correct, we are not. sit with Him and talk these things out with Him; become convinced of the truth. this isn't involving you convincing God He was wrong and needs to come around to your point of view; it's the opposite -- like you said -- and that's what God calls reasoning together.
think about the Greek schools of philosophy -- did students come there and change Aristotle's mind about what he was teaching? no, Aristotle changed their minds, and they learned from him. and this was sitting down and reasoning together.
so, i think you are right about what you were saying -- just think you have the wrong definition for the phrase. let God convince you of the right one
This is the post I began with:
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Paul reasoned extensively with others according to Acts. And told us to be imitators of him as well
Since God says, let us reason TOGETHER, we are not left out of the loop. It is reciprocal.
Since God says, let us reason TOGETHER, we are not left out of the loop. It is reciprocal.
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