Lets Talk Free Choice

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Issachar92 said:
Good post peacefulbeliever but as you noticed from sovereigngrace's response and the usual use of man's wisdom to explain it away.

ITS THE GOSPEL IN REVERSE, thats calvinism in a nutshell, everything is upside down. Climbing the tree from the top to the roots.

First you are regenerated, then you believe, then you repent <- Gospel in reverse.
First you repent, then you believe, then you are regenerated <- The true gospel as clearly laid out hundreds of times.
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No, it's not that way at all. You're missing the very thing that "the teacher of Israel" missed. What SovereignGrace said has nothing to do with man's wisdom.

Nonetheless your explanation is just that, since you're in the same dilemma as "the teacher of Israel" as he could not see this truth either.
 
notmyown said:
why you?? why you and not me???

my eyes, which were brown, are losing pigment along with my hair and are almost completely green now.
and there's a lesson in there somewhere, but i'm tired. ;)
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Because green is prettier than brown?
 
“God created things which had free will. That means creatures which can go wrong or right. Some people think they can imagine a creature which was free but had no possibility of going wrong, but I can't. If a thing is free to be good it's also free to be bad. And free will is what has made evil possible. Why, then, did God give them free will? Because free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. A world of automata -of creatures that worked like machines- would hardly be worth creating. The happiness which God designs for His higher creatures is the happiness of being freely, voluntarily united to Him and to each other in an ecstasy of love and delight compared with which the most rapturous love between a man and a woman on this earth is mere milk and water. And for that they've got to be free.
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I would offer, God who is not a man as us created or willed man in his “own image” .Jesus said; the father and I are one. In the image of God created he him. (Adam and Eve as one creation). Male and female created he them separately. (Those that were not created in His image, no soul, the rest of the creatures not subject to salvation)

He created him, mankind in his own image in a hope they would obey His will. He did not create a will that was separate from His. He did not want them to learn by experience but walk by faith, the unseen voice of God. The father of lies in his subtleness put his words in the mouth of a serpent as that seen.

They fell from a faith that came from hearing God not seen by doing the pleasure of another will , the voice of Satan the god of this world..as that temporally seen .

Free will to a believer (one who has as faith that comes from hearing God not seen) is to do the will of another, God not seen, not being a slave to the will of another. It’s the kind of spiritual food needed for our spiritual bodies that the disciples knew not of. Like our daily bread as in thy will be done on earth as it is heaven

Then they went out of the city, and came unto him. In the mean while his disciples prayed him, saying, Master, eat. But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of. Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.John 4:30-34

It’s His will that works in a believer to both will and do his good pleasure .It’s what we work out, as he works in us, not what we work for to gain. But as he does work in us making what he believed (his faith) complete as a imputed righteousness not that of our own self.

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work outyour own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings: Phillipians 2 :13
 
Depleted said:
"Add to ignore list."

Now the truth comes out. If you see my name as one of the last 10 to visit your page, it's likely I either ignored you or tried to figure out who you are. Lately, it's the former.
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(And why am I tempted to check out your page now, to keep you wondering Sov? lol)
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I thought that the people who visit your page really like you and what you have to say....

I guess I'll have to rethink that idea...
 
This is the ridicilous bible shoot out.
Look at this verse look at that verse, well what about this verse.

What a clown fiesta.
 
Depleted said:
It's another two words in the Bible -- "Born again."

And you're saying Jesus wouldn't have brought Lazarus back to life, if Lazarus hadn't repented? From memory, it seems he brought him back for his sisters' sakes. Think about it. Where was Lazarus when he was dead? In Paradise! Why would he want to come back by that time? And Jesus knew where Lazarus was, so he wasn't crying for Lazarus. He'd be seeing Lazarus in a short while. He was crying because of the sorrow of the sisters.
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Lazarus was Jesus's friend. Pretty sure Abraham was a friend of God. That term " friend means more than buds til the end."

See what I done there see it....made a rhyme...Omg a poet and don't know it....there I go again...o my see it look it's...never mind:D
 
Depleted said:
It's another two words in the Bible -- "Born again."
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Oh, the definition for born again doesn't mention regenerate . . .
And you're saying Jesus wouldn't have brought Lazarus back to life, if Lazarus hadn't repented? From memory, it seems he brought him back for his sisters' sakes. Think about it. Where was Lazarus when he was dead? In Paradise! Why would he want to come back by that time? And Jesus knew where Lazarus was, so he wasn't crying for Lazarus. He'd be seeing Lazarus in a short while. He was crying because of the sorrow of the sisters.
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Apparently Lazarus had repented and believed in the Messiah, that is what I am saying.

Martha said, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day." Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me, even if he dies, will live. Everyone who lives and believes in me will never die--Do you believe this?" "Yes, Lord", she told him, "I believe you are the Messiah, the Son of God, who comes into the world."
Isn't that what John 3:16 declares that if we believe on him we shall have eternal life?

When Lazarus was dead, he was in the grave. . . Lazarus had already been in the tomb four days.
 
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Here is a scripture that shows that Jesus "wanted to" gather those in Jerusalem but they "were unwilling". Jesus is the exact representation of the Father's nature. Heb. 1:2. Jesus said that it is the Father in Him - doing His works.

This scripture shows that God is willing but some people are not willing. Jesus said "How often" I wanted to.....but you would not.

Matthew 23:37 (NASB)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
 
Grace777x70 said:
Here is a scripture that shows that Jesus "wanted to" gather those in Jerusalem but they "were unwilling". Jesus is the exact representation of the Father's nature. Heb. 1:2. Jesus said that it is the Father in Him - doing His works.

This scripture shows that God is willing but some people are not willing. Jesus said "How often" I wanted to.....but you would not.

Matthew 23:37 (NASB)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
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My gosh! Why would Jesus ever do that????? After all, He already elected them before they were born, so all he had to do was just wait for the inevitability of their coming to Him... since they had no choice, anyway.
 
Willie-T said:
My gosh! Why would Jesus ever do that????? After all, He already elected them before they were born, so all he had to do was just wait for the inevitability of their coming to Him... since they had no choice, anyway.
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Perhaps Jesus and the Father have a different theology and operate from a different belief system.
 
Willie-T said:
I think you nailed it pretty well.
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its how I see it . We can't force someone to love us for sure we can keep loving another, but it's up to them to value that and return it of their own volition , I think myself it's why God created man in his own image
 
Grace777x70 said:
Here is a scripture that shows that Jesus "wanted to" gather those in Jerusalem but they "were unwilling". Jesus is the exact representation of the Father's nature. Heb. 1:2. Jesus said that it is the Father in Him - doing His works.

This scripture shows that God is willing but some people are not willing. Jesus said "How often" I wanted to.....but you would not.

Matthew 23:37 (NASB)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
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Your children...
 
SovereignGrace said:
Your children...
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They always think they've found an "gotcha!" verse. They don't know what IG teaches so they do this.

Then there is this:

Grace777x70 said:
Perhaps Jesus and the Father have a different theology and operate from a different belief system.
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You can see from this suggestion just how far off track from truth this G7 fellow is. Theology? It's all up for grabs. Probably would enjoy some Brian McClaren, Rob Bell, with some Andy Stanley thrown in.
 
Grace777x70 said:
Perhaps Jesus and the Father have a different theology and operate from a different belief system.
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Pure heresy.

The Father and Son are One. They don't have differing agendas.

Just like ppl said Paul had one gospel for the Gentiles and Peter had another gospel for the Jews.

Ppl say anything that sounds good, regardless how deep rooted in hersy it is.
 
preacher4truth said:
They always think they've found an "gotcha!" verse. They don't know what IG teaches so they do this.

Then there is this:



You can see from this suggestion just how far off track from truth this G7 fellow is. Theology? It's all up for grabs. Probably would enjoy some Brian McClaren, Rob Bell, with some Andy Stanley thrown in.
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G7 needs some G3...
 
Grandpa said:
I thought that the people who visit your page really like you and what you have to say....

I guess I'll have to rethink that idea...
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They like me just find when I shut up and they don't have to see me. lol
 
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