License to Sin

[Cameron143]

“As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love." - John 15:9-10

Jesus himself would disagree with you. So I guess which is more important? Aaron56's agreement or Jesus?

The verses you shared deal with abiding in Christ; not being in Christ. Read the passage again for context.

 

[Inquisitor]

Besides, @Aaron56 agreed with me so I must be right.

Of course your correct, funny.

You must acknowledge the whole chapter, Cameron.

Don't do what nearly every other church does and cherry pick passages to support an interpretation.

You can fall from grace!

 

[Cameron143]

Of course your correct, funny.

You must acknowledge the whole chapter, Cameron.

Don't do what nearly every other church does and cherry pick passages to support an interpretation.

You can fall from grace!

What is the process for someone who is in Christ being removed from Christ? Please show the biblical passages that reveal how this occurs.

Also, is it true that Christ never leaves or forsakes one of His own? So does Jesus follow such ones who fall from grace into the lake of fire?

 

[Inquisitor]

Those that have not crucified the flesh are refusing to submit to the Lord and instead are still playing with sin and playing with devils who keep coming back around to lead them in to sin and they submit to demons and go do sin.

It would help if you leave the condemnation of other Christians out of your posts.

You sin and your sin is willful so try not to play the sin card in this game.

Everyone was stone dead in their sin before they were saved.

Everyone is housed in a body of flesh and you will be until the day you die, need I say more?

Don't throw rocks when you live in a glass house.

 

[Inquisitor]

What is the process for someone who is in Christ being removed from Christ? Please show the biblical passages that reveal how this occurs.

Also, is it true that Christ never leaves or forsakes one of His own? So does Jesus follow such ones who fall from grace into the lake of fire?

Here is a very good example of one of the ways you can fall from grace.

Galatians 5:4
You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

The text is straight forward.

Yet, you will interpret the text (Galatians 5:4) and insert your philosophical understanding of the text. Then deny that
someone can fall from grace.

Jesus will never forsake you unless you choose to not abide in Christ every day.

The Lord is not a dictator and we are not robots, Cameron.

You as a Christian will every day need to make decisions in your Christian life which will have consequences.

 

[Delvianna]

The verses you shared deal with abiding in Christ; not being in Christ. Read the passage again for context.

No, that's not what it says.

You're claiming Jesus is talking about "abiding" as though that's somehow different from "remaining," but Jesus literally says, "If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love."

So are you saying "remain" doesn't actually mean remain? That "if" doesn't actually introduce a condition? Because that's where your argument has gone.

Jesus gave a conditional statement. You're reading the condition out of it because your theology requires you to.

 

[Cameron143]

Here is a very good example of one of the ways you can fall from grace.

Galatians 5:4
You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

The text is straight forward.

Yet, you will interpret the text (Galatians 5:4) and insert your philosophical understanding of the text. Then deny that
someone can fall from grace.

Jesus will never forsake you unless you choose to not abide in Christ every day.

The Lord is not a dictator and we are not robots, Cameron.

You as a Christian will every day need to make decisions in your Christian life which will have consequences.

Read carefully. It applies to those who seek to be justified by the law. How many people who seek to be justified by the law are saved?

 

[Cameron143]

No, that's not what it says.

You're claiming Jesus is talking about "abiding" as though that's somehow different from "remaining," but Jesus literally says, "If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love."

So are you saying "remain" doesn't actually mean remain? That "if" doesn't actually introduce a condition? Because that's where your argument has gone.

Jesus gave a conditional statement. You're reading the condition out of it because your theology requires you to.

You don't believe their is a difference between being in Christ and abiding in Christ?

 

[ShaunGutfeld777]

It would help if you leave the condemnation of other Christians out of your posts.

According to the New Testament if a Christian is in sin they are back under condemnation.

Is your claim that Christians can live in sin and they are still be in right standing with the Lord without confessing and forsaking their sin? You follow the security in sin fake gospel?

You sin and your sin is willful so try not to play the sin card in this game.

That's what those void of understanding of the New Covenant keep falsely claiming.

Everyone was stone dead in their sin before they were saved.

Yes, and some of us got born again and have crucified the flesh and now walk in the Spirit.

Galatians 5:16
Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Galatians 5:24
they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

2 Peter 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Romans 6:7 (YLT)
for he who has died hath been set free from the sin.

Everyone is housed in a body of flesh and you will be until the day you die, need I say more?

Well feel free to let your flesh run wild living in all the sin you can handle if you so desire.

I'm going to continue in God's Word and the leading of the Holy Spirit Who does not lead me to sin.

Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

1 Corinthians 6:20
For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Don't throw rocks when you live in a glass house.

Don't speak of the things of God until you ditch the false religion and get on God's Word

All you are doing is helping others become deceived thru false teachings.

 

[Delvianna]

You don't believe their is a difference between being in Christ and abiding in Christ?

No. Because when you get to the root of both, it doesn't negate the requirements or conditions God has already placed. You cannot be saved and not be in Gods love at the same time. That is an oxymoron. So trying to argue there's a distinction in other ways (sure, by definition) isn't actually in the context in where this discussion is, which is the idea of salvation. When it comes to salvation, there is no distinction because regardless of the definitional differences, the requirements God places encompass both.

It’s like saying, ‘You’re a student’ vs ‘you’re actively attending school.’ You can define those differently, but if the school says, ‘If you stop attending, you’re no longer enrolled,’ then separating the terms doesn’t change what the rule is doing, it’s still describing that continued attendance is required for the status.

So again, let's not add to what the verse is saying and try and alter what it says. Don't read the condition out of it, it's there for a reason.

 

[Cameron143]

No. Because when you get to the root of both, it doesn't negate the requirements or conditions God has already placed. You cannot be saved and not be in Gods love at the same time. That is an oxymoron. So trying to argue there's a distinction in other ways (sure, by definition) isn't actually in the context in where this discussion is, which is the idea of salvation. When it comes to salvation, there is no distinction because regardless of the definitional differences, the requirements God places encompass both.

It’s like saying, ‘You’re a student’ vs ‘you’re actively attending school.’ You can define those differently, but if the school says, ‘If you stop attending, you’re no longer enrolled,’ then separating the terms doesn’t change what the rule is doing, it’s still describing that continued attendance is required for the status.

So again, let's not add to what the verse is saying and try and alter what it says. Don't read the condition out of it, it's there for a reason.

Being in Christ is something God does. The Spirit places us in Christ. Abiding in Christ is something we do aided by Christ.

 

[Delvianna]

Being in Christ is something God does. The Spirit places us in Christ. Abiding in Christ is something we do aided by Christ.

That response doesn't negate my previous reply to you.

 

[Cameron143]

That response doesn't negate my previous reply to you.

Of course it does. They are 2 very different things. They are not the same as you suggested.

 

[Delvianna]

Of course it does. They are 2 very different things. They are not the same as you suggested.

I don't think you understood my response then. Might want to go back over it again.

 

[Cameron143]

I don't think you understood my response then. Might want to go back over it again.

No thanks.

Grace and peace.

 

[Mem]

I was listening to a sermon during my drive today, I don't recall exactly who it was that was the speaker because, I really don't pay any attention to that as much as I really only listen for tidbits of the truth rather than any certain person. So the entire sermon might sound something like, yada yada yada, the truth, yada, and another truth, to me, but I'm remembering it was the voice of Adrian Rodgers, I think. Anyway, he compared us and Jesus with Noah and the Ark, and said, "Noah could fall in the ark, but he couldn't fall out of it."

 

[Aaron56]

Yes.

Feel free to ignore Jesus' instructions and see where it leads to.

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Acts 2:37.38
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Colossians 2:11-13
In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Never argue about what the text says. What it means, however, requires wisdom and maturity.
What questions do you have?

 

[Aaron56]

“As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love." - John 15:9-10

Jesus himself would disagree with you. So I guess which is more important? Aaron56's agreement or Jesus?

The same John then wrote “And this is his commandment: that we should believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as he gave us commandment."

 

[Delvianna]

The same John then wrote “And this is his commandment: that we should believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as he gave us commandment."

Are you suggesting that's a contradiction?

 

[Thaddeus]

Are you suggesting that's a contradiction?

I wouldn't say so:
Carry each others burdens(love them) and so fulfill the law of Christ Gal6:2