License to Sin

[Aussie52]

Being in Christ is something God does. The Spirit places us in Christ. Abiding in Christ is something we do aided by Christ.

Being 'in Christ' is something I enter into through faith and the Holy Spirit's action. Being 'in the vine' is a metaphor of being in Christ. The act of abiding or remaining in the vine is an act of faith.
Where faith ceases to be, we cease to be 'in Christ' or to use Christ's metaphor, cease to be'in the vine'.

 

[Cameron143]

Being 'in Christ' is something I enter into through faith and the Holy Spirit's action. Being 'in the vine' is a metaphor of being in Christ. The act of abiding or remaining in the vine is an act of faith.
Where faith ceases to be, we cease to be 'in Christ' or to use Christ's metaphor, cease to be'in the vine'.

You didn't enter into Christ. You had to be placed there. Neither can you extricate yourself from being in Christ. You possess no such ability.

Neither can you remove yourself from the vine. Nowhere in the passage does it say an individual removes themselves from the vine. It is God who does the removing.

Your Christianity seems to depend on what you do. This is contrary to scripture. Do you live, or does Christ live in you?

 

[Inquisitor]

Read carefully. It applies to those who seek to be justified by the law. How many people who seek to be justified by the law are saved?

Romans 8:12
So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh for if you are living according to
the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Although the general context is the law throughout Romans 2 to Romans 11.

You will notice that living "in the Spirit" is a common theme in Paul's teaching overall.

Romans 12:9-13
Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil; cling to what is good. Be devoted to one another in brotherly love;
give preference to one another in honor; not lagging behind in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; rejoicing
in hope, persevering in tribulation, devoted to prayer, contributing to the needs of the practicing hospitality.

When we see "flesh" and "Spirit" we automatically extrapolate.

Living in the flesh is not solely living under the law to be justified, saved.

Here is an example of the deeds of the flesh.

Galatians 5:19-21
Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

You will not find many of the ten commandments in the deeds of the flesh.

As a general rule we are called to be led by the Holy Spirit and bear the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Nothing can separate those that call on the name of the Lord and bear the fruit, from the love of God.

 

[Inquisitor]

Being 'in Christ' is something I enter into through faith and the Holy Spirit's action. Being 'in the vine' is a metaphor of being in Christ. The act of abiding or remaining in the vine is an act of faith.
Where faith ceases to be, we cease to be 'in Christ' or to use Christ's metaphor, cease to be'in the vine'.

On the last day that faith also expires when Jesus returns.

I agree, when a person no longer calls on the name of the Lord they are no longer saved.

 

[Inquisitor]

According to the New Testament if a Christian is in sin they are back under condemnation.

Is your claim that Christians can live in sin and they are still be in right standing with the Lord without confessing and forsaking their sin? You follow the security in sin fake gospel?




That's what those void of understanding of the New Covenant keep falsely claiming.




Yes, and some of us got born again and have crucified the flesh and now walk in the Spirit.

Galatians 5:16
Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Galatians 5:24
they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

2 Peter 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Romans 6:7 (YLT)
for he who has died hath been set free from the sin.




Well feel free to let your flesh run wild living in all the sin you can handle if you so desire.

I'm going to continue in God's Word and the leading of the Holy Spirit Who does not lead me to sin.

Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

1 Corinthians 6:20
For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.





Don't speak of the things of God until you ditch the false religion and get on God's Word

All you are doing is helping others become deceived thru false teachings.

I must conclude that you are one of those people who obey the Lord's commandment.

1 Corinthians 14:1
Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.

1 Corinthians 14:37
If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment.

Are you a spiritual Christian?

 

[Cameron143]

Romans 8:12
So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh for if you are living according to
the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Although the general context is the law throughout Romans 2 to Romans 11.

You will notice that living "in the Spirit" is a common theme in Paul's teaching overall.

Romans 12:9-13
Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil; cling to what is good. Be devoted to one another in brotherly love;
give preference to one another in honor; not lagging behind in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; rejoicing
in hope, persevering in tribulation, devoted to prayer, contributing to the needs of the practicing hospitality.

When we see "flesh" and "Spirit" we automatically extrapolate.

Living in the flesh is not solely living under the law to be justified, saved.

Here is an example of the deeds of the flesh.

Galatians 5:19-21
Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

You will not find many of the ten commandments in the deeds of the flesh.

As a general rule we are called to be led by the Holy Spirit and bear the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Nothing can separate those that call on the name of the Lord and bear the fruit, from the love of God.

You keep moving the goalposts.

 

[Aussie52]

You didn't enter into Christ. You had to be placed there. Neither can you extricate yourself from being in Christ. You possess no such ability.

Neither can you remove yourself from the vine. Nowhere in the passage does it say an individual removes themselves from the vine. It is God who does the removing.

Your Christianity seems to depend on what you do. This is contrary to scripture. Do you live, or does Christ live in you?

"WHOEVER DOES NOT ABIDE (remain) in me is thrown away like a branch and withers; such branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned" Jn 15:6 NRSV.

" KEEP YOURSELVES in the love of God" Jude 20. NRSV.

"for in Christ Jesus you are all children of God THROUGH FAITH' Gal 3:26 NRSV.

 

[Cameron143]

"WHOEVER DOES NOT ABIDE (remain) in me is thrown away like a branch and withers; such branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned" Jn 15:6 NRSV.

" KEEP YOURSELVES in the love of God" Jude 20. NRSV.

"for in Christ Jesus you are all children of God THROUGH FAITH' Gal 3:26 NRSV.

Who is the husband man? Who purges?

 

[Aussie52]

Who is the husband man? Who purges?

It is not all God or all man. It is a co-operation between the two.

 

[Aaron56]

Are you suggesting that's a contradiction?

Nope. A clarification.

 

[Cameron143]

It is not all God or all man. It is a co-operation between the two.

Salvation is by grace.

Grace is the exercise of God's power in/on/through an individual.

Ergo, salvation is the exercise of God's power in/on/through an individual.

Cooperation occurs after God has exercised His power...created unto good works. Created, then co-operation.

 

[Delvianna]

Nope. A clarification.

The law are commands, the 10 commandments are commands, then Christ adds new commands, which include belief in Him. This is not an either or situation, it's an and situation. Belief in Christ doesn't automatically remove what God gave as commands previously. Even Christ said he didn't come to "abolish" the law. So adding that verse doesn't change anything. If you do not keep His commands, you will not remain in His love. You will also be cut off and thrown into the fire. Because how can you grow spiritual fruit unless you're walking in righteousness which IS following ALL his commands?

Since the law isn't abolished, technically we should still be sacrificing. But because there isn't a Temple where God dwells, I think we're given grace. Which makes sense as to why sacrifices return. Ezekiel's prophecy of a temple that has never been built yet thus far which includes sacrifices.

 

[Aaron56]

The law are commands, the 10 commandments are commands, then Christ adds new commands, which include belief in Him. This is not an either or situation, it's an and situation. Belief in Christ doesn't automatically remove what God gave as commands previously. Even Christ said he didn't come to "abolish" the law. So adding that verse doesn't change anything. If you do not keep His commands, you will not remain in His love. You will also be cut off and thrown into the fire. Because how can you grow spiritual fruit unless you're walking in righteousness which IS following ALL his commands?

Since the law isn't abolished, technically we should still be sacrificing. But because there isn't a Temple where God dwells, I think we're given grace. Which makes sense as to why sacrifices return. Ezekiel's prophecy of a temple that has never been built yet thus far which includes sacrifices.

Your understanding needs work. Keep moving forward!

 

[ShaunGutfeld777]

Being 'in Christ' is something I enter into through faith and the Holy Spirit's action. Being 'in the vine' is a metaphor of being in Christ. The act of abiding or remaining in the vine is an act of faith.
Where faith ceases to be, we cease to be 'in Christ' or to use Christ's metaphor, cease to be'in the vine'.

This is true. Jesus tells us about this in John 15 but the fake grace followers / teachers claim they know more than Jesus does and claim what Jesus teaches in John 15 is wrong as they claim Jesus is a liar and otherwise ignorant.

John 15:1,2
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

John 15:5
IF A MAN ABIDE NOT IN ME, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!

John 15:4,5
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!

John 15:8-10
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

HOW are we to abide in Christ, thru our own strength and ability???
NO... thru the Lord Who strengthens us!

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

The greasy grace people will be here soon to continue their false claim that Jesus doesn't know what He's talking about and only they have the true greasy grace message. They try to be slick, but they fell for the devil's trick

 

[HeIsHere]

The letter to the Hebrews focuses on the supremacy of Jesus Christ and the establishment of a new, superior covenant. It was written to encourage these Hebrews to stand firm rather than falling away.

You need to realize though that not everyone in this large group of Hebrew believers were genuine believers, just as we see in Hebrews 4:2 - For indeed the gospel was preached to US as well as to THEM; but the word which THEY heard did not profit THEM, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3. For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:

“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Yes on the first statement

You need to realize that it was not the 21Century when the letter was written, why would they identify as believers to their own detriment and risk everything they had?

So no, the letter is written to believing Hebrews and they author is clearly dealing with apostasy (not loss of salvation) they are separate

Unfortunately, the doctrine of Lordship Salvation doctrine has convinced people we have divide scripture so that there author actually is addressing non-believers and well as believers, this western lens has not helped actually understand what is being stated by both the writer of the Letter to the Hebrews and the Book of James.

 

[Mem]

In the OC system, the sacrifice had to be 'renewed again' each year.

 

[ShaunGutfeld777]

the author is clearly dealing with apostasy (not loss of salvation) they are separate

Once a person crosses over in to apostasy they are no longer in right standing with the Lord and as such no longer saved.

Unless they repent and turn away from their sin, they will go to hell when they die.

The greasy grace people will be here shortly to explain how one can live in sin an d walk in darkness in opposition to the Lord and they will falsely claim such a person is still saved.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we deny Him, He also will deny us

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

1 John 1:6
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

Romans 2:7-11
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
For there is no respect of persons with God.

 

[Mem]

If the high priest was permitted to renew the sacrifice each year, and in fact it was required that he should as was his primary duty to do so, that is, to go in each year an offer a sacrifice (again each year) to atone for his own sins and for the sins of the people... How is our Priest in the order of Melchizedek's atonement so much more restricted in the application of His Sacrifice?

 

[ShaunGutfeld777]

If the high priest was permitted to renew the sacrifice each year, and in fact it was required that he should as was his primary duty to do so, that is, to go in each year an offer a sacrifice (again each year) to atone for his own sins and for the sins of the people... How is our Priest in the order of Melchizedek's atonement so much more restricted in the application of His Sacrifice?

The Lord Jesus' sacrifice was for ALL men, for the sins of the entire world.

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that He by the grace of God should taste death for EVERY man.

John 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

2 Corinthians 5:19,20
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Romans 5:17,18
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

NOTE - Romans 5:17,18 is clearly telling us that the free gift came upon all men agreeing with Titus 2:11,12

 

[Aaron56]

Once a person crosses over in to apostasy they are no longer in right standing with the Lord and as such no longer saved.

Unless they repent and turn away from their sin, they will go to hell when they die.

The Lord might diminish his influence to the point of his death, even, in order to limit his sins. Then, upon resurrection, he might embrace what he needed to understand in the Millennium, where the schemes of the enemy and the influence of the enemy is bound.