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Didn't we all love the auditions for American Idol (those of us who watched the show) when the terrible singers were exposed? And yet the judges were made aware over time that it was better to be honest without mercilessly ridiculing the other person's inability to recognize their own failings.
[video=youtube;GYsM2a-NIOo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYsM2a-NIOo[/video]
Some people aren't open to the truth...
[video=youtube;GYsM2a-NIOo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYsM2a-NIOo[/video]
Some people aren't open to the truth...
A
Amazing-Grace
Guest
Magenta, it's not about such trivia as talent contests, it's about saving an elderly person from needless worry.
I am sorry you see someone's total delusion as a result of being lied to as trivial.
A
Amazing-Grace
Guest
I would try and avoid the subject, so I wouldn't tell them the truth or the lie. Although God commands us not to lie. The Jewish midwives lied about babies being born to Jewish women living under Egyptian rule at the time of Moses birth.
D
Depleted
Guest
How bad is it?
For years I kept telling Dad something was wrong with his memory. He wouldn't listen (ends up, the problem itself wouldn't let him see he had a problem), until he woke up one morning and didn't know where he was or who he was for four hours. Dementia. Had he heeded the warnings, he could have been treated earlier and lived on his own 1-2 more years. Had he heeded the warning, he also wouldn't have had dementia.
I remember the ER doctor telling hubby, "You're dying. Unless we put you on a ventilator now." Glad he didn't sugarcoat that one or tell a little white lie, but dang! I really don't know if I'd tell an elderly person he/she was dying if there is nothing that can be done about it. But, on the other side, I wouldn't tell him/her all is right with the world either.
When hubby got better, I told him I still planned on him living to 111. He laughed and told me he'd be happy with a few more years. He has no idea how much that startled me, but he's right. I'd be surprised if he makes it for five more birthdays.
I'd rather not plan on fixing up my garden if I knew I only had five more years left. Seems a waste. All in all, I'd rather be told and give me time to finish what I started -- a series of books.
Yeah, worrying serves purpose at times. So how bad is this lie?
D
Depleted
Guest
I just remembered something else. My father went totally nuts just as hubby was going through the beginning of his heart attack recovery. After hubby's second surgery and the doctors finally let him wake up a bit, (he was sedated for 32 days), I did not tell him that Dad was driving me nuts by calling over and over again because he sensed my brother was trying to get him into addiction rehab and then a mental institution/nursing home. I didn't tell hubby that Dad was literally playing with a loaded gun and no one knew if he was going to shoot himself or the first person who rang his doorbell. I didn't even tell him the outcome of the trial, (which was a miracle in itself.) I didn't tell him, because that worry could affect hubby's health.
But I also didn't lie to him.
But I also didn't lie to him.
I am a musician, a trained singer and flautist. I have played professionally and taught music. I know music well.
So this comment is a really hard one for me. Both for me and others. Last Christmas, I accepted a request to lead the Christmas Eve service. I forgot about my dislocated jaw. Its ok, unless there are a lot of high notes. Well the pianist told me he wouldn't go above D in the middle of the staff, which I can handle. He must have forgotten about one carol. It was in the high F range. And not once or twice, but what seemed like a hundred times in those 10 verses (Of course, the only song that had that many verses!)
About verse 3, I could feel my jaw locking, but I pushed it back into place. By verse 5, I was in serious trouble. Stupid me! My jaw got stuck open on verse 6. I had to just work on the jaw, and let the congregation sing it on their own.
So what was the reaction afterwards? I had so many people coming up and telling me what a beautiful voice I had. Ok, my voice isn't bad, and I can sing on pitch. But I considered it a disaster, even if it wasn't "all about me."
Some people said nothing. That is my reaction to someone who sings terribly. Sneak out and don't say a word. No one even pointed out the major failure I had. But then again, I think it was pretty obvious that most people knew about my RA and figured this was just another RA issue. (It was - my jaw dislocated from an RA flare in Feb. 2015, and it has never been quite the same since.)
And were all those people who told me I had a lovely voice lying? I don't think so. When I played in bars, I used to lose my voice every week. It took me till I was saved 10 years to learn I had bad allergies to cigarette smoke, although in those days, it just made my vocal chords swell up. Nothing permanent, no ER.
In the bars, I would sing terribly, and people, drunk people would always tell me how much they loved my voice. They went out of their way to tell me. Were they lying? I don't think so - I think that either they were clueless about music, or they were too drunk to figure it out. So that gave me a grain of salt, when dealing with church people.
I do think that many people do not really know what good music sounds like - including those who decide they want to be singers and are tone deaf and do not even have the throat to be able to produce good vocal sounds. So would I tell a bad singer they need to improve? Not likely! It is hard to train and older person to sing on pitch, or have good quality vocal production and sustain notes. I taught elementary music for 7 years, and my focus was always on teaching monotones to sing, teaching those with mediocre voices to sing well and those with good voices to sing better. And the occasional opera star? Well, I told their mothers to put them in singing and piano lessons. Not everyone did, of course. And I did produce some good singers, I had music teachers who took over my school tell me how good the children sang!
So back to the OP - I would never lie, not even to save someone's feelings. But I would avoid the issue if possible. Maybe that is a sin of omission? We do need to care for the feelings of others, so it is a fine line to walk. But lying, is wrong, except in those impossible situations like hiding Jews from the Nazis, or people who smuggle in Bibles to closed countries. Those are lies to counter evil, and I guess that is between the people and God.
YES. Better to tell them they sound bad, rather than let them think they can actually sing.. lol
D
Depleted
Guest
Is there a sin of omission? I know it's a Christian thing, but is it biblical?
(I don't think people hiding Jews or smuggling bibles are lying. They're doing good civil disobedience.)
wwjd_kilden gave the perfect answer in her post. She pointed out that the Nazis were trying to exterminate the Jews during World War II. There were Christians, though, who were helping the Jews hide and escape. If you were one of those Christians and a Nazi asked you if you were hiding Jews, what would you say?
If you were hiding Jews from the Nazis who were trying to exterminate the Jews during World War II, what would you have said if a Nazi asked you if you were hiding Jews?
R
renewed_hope
Guest
Lol that's okay.....Im a flutist too....in fact I made an investment about a month ago and purchased a sterling silver flute with a gold mouthpiece, I love it
As far the OP is concerned I would flat out ask them if they want to know the truth or what they want to hear, some people don't want to know the cold hard truth.
Lies:
Let me draw a couple of parallels.
1. The Koran & Islam
The Koran gives special circumstances under which you are officially allowed, by God, to lie.
This doctrine about how to lie, and when it's allowed, is called Al-Taqiyya (spellings vary).
Under the doctrine of Al-Taqiyya, Muslims are allowed to lie for various reasons,
a predominant reason being to "protect the faith".
Clearly, "protecting the faith" can be interpreted a lot of different ways...
from the benign to the deadly.
I wouldn't say that all Muslims go around lying about everything,
but you can be CERTAIN that a muslim SCHOLAR or APOLOGIST,
who is ACADEMICALLY TRAINED in the Koran, is CERTAINLY
going to use Al-Taqiyya... whenever it is needed.
This is why you are a fool to every trust a Muslim apologist...
they are actually TAUGHT they should lie to win debate,
and thereby protect the faith.
- In a nutshell, because the Koran says lying is ok under certain circumstances, mankind, being fallen and sinful, will STRETCH and ABUSE those circumstances... until they INTERPRET lying in any way they please.
- Having PERMISSION TO LIE gets grossly abused by fallen man.
2. The Bible & Chritianity
In the bible, we are NEVER told it is alright to lie.
We are never given permission to lie.
There is no verse, anywhere in either testament, that says, "It's ok to lie... but only for a few really good reasons."
That verse doesn't exist.
Why?
Because if God gave us permission to lie, even under limited circumstances,
this permission would be MANIPULATED and ABUSED...
just as it is in the Muslim faith.
GOD already KNOWS we will tell little white lies to save someone's feelings.
GOD already KNOWS if we're hiding jews in the house, we aren't going to tell the Nazis we have them.
GOD already KNOWS we're going to lie in times of war, or in times of protecting our loved ones.
GOD already KNOWS we will do these things because HE CREATED US...
he KNOWS how we THINK.
Here's how it works:
1. God doesn't have to GIVE US PERMISSION to lie to protect the Jews hiding in our houses...
he knows that WE'LL JUST DO IT. We will have a NATURAL RESPONSE to lie to protect the innocent from harm. Good or bad, we will just do it.
2. But, if God MANDATED and WROTE DOWN special circumstances in which we could lie... we would REINTERPRET and ABUSE those circumstance... to allow us to LIE ALL THE TIME.
3. THEREFORE, God has given us NO special circumstances, NO WRITTEN and CODIFIED RULES FOR LYING.
NONE!
- GOD knows we would abuse them... and the proof for this abuse is found in how the Muslims abuse Al-Taqiyya.
- God knows we are fallen, and frail, and full of fear... and he KNOWS that right or wrong, we WILL lie to protect the weak and innocent. He doesn't need to give us special permission.
Conclusion:
A. We LIE by nature, by our own fallen nature.
B. God will NOT give us special rules, or permissions for lying.
-1. We already lie naturally, by our fallen nature.
-2. Islam proves that if we had special rules for lying, we would abuse and manipulate these rules.
C. Therefore, even if it IS alright, morally, to lie under certain circumstance... God CANNOT, and WILL NOT, outline special rules for lying... or we would certainly ABUSE these rules.
Let me draw a couple of parallels.
1. The Koran & Islam
The Koran gives special circumstances under which you are officially allowed, by God, to lie.
This doctrine about how to lie, and when it's allowed, is called Al-Taqiyya (spellings vary).
Under the doctrine of Al-Taqiyya, Muslims are allowed to lie for various reasons,
a predominant reason being to "protect the faith".
Clearly, "protecting the faith" can be interpreted a lot of different ways...
from the benign to the deadly.
I wouldn't say that all Muslims go around lying about everything,
but you can be CERTAIN that a muslim SCHOLAR or APOLOGIST,
who is ACADEMICALLY TRAINED in the Koran, is CERTAINLY
going to use Al-Taqiyya... whenever it is needed.
This is why you are a fool to every trust a Muslim apologist...
they are actually TAUGHT they should lie to win debate,
and thereby protect the faith.
- In a nutshell, because the Koran says lying is ok under certain circumstances, mankind, being fallen and sinful, will STRETCH and ABUSE those circumstances... until they INTERPRET lying in any way they please.
- Having PERMISSION TO LIE gets grossly abused by fallen man.
2. The Bible & Chritianity
In the bible, we are NEVER told it is alright to lie.
We are never given permission to lie.
There is no verse, anywhere in either testament, that says, "It's ok to lie... but only for a few really good reasons."
That verse doesn't exist.
Why?
Because if God gave us permission to lie, even under limited circumstances,
this permission would be MANIPULATED and ABUSED...
just as it is in the Muslim faith.
GOD already KNOWS we will tell little white lies to save someone's feelings.
GOD already KNOWS if we're hiding jews in the house, we aren't going to tell the Nazis we have them.
GOD already KNOWS we're going to lie in times of war, or in times of protecting our loved ones.
GOD already KNOWS we will do these things because HE CREATED US...
he KNOWS how we THINK.
Here's how it works:
1. God doesn't have to GIVE US PERMISSION to lie to protect the Jews hiding in our houses...
he knows that WE'LL JUST DO IT. We will have a NATURAL RESPONSE to lie to protect the innocent from harm. Good or bad, we will just do it.
2. But, if God MANDATED and WROTE DOWN special circumstances in which we could lie... we would REINTERPRET and ABUSE those circumstance... to allow us to LIE ALL THE TIME.
3. THEREFORE, God has given us NO special circumstances, NO WRITTEN and CODIFIED RULES FOR LYING.
NONE!
- GOD knows we would abuse them... and the proof for this abuse is found in how the Muslims abuse Al-Taqiyya.
- God knows we are fallen, and frail, and full of fear... and he KNOWS that right or wrong, we WILL lie to protect the weak and innocent. He doesn't need to give us special permission.
Conclusion:
A. We LIE by nature, by our own fallen nature.
B. God will NOT give us special rules, or permissions for lying.
-1. We already lie naturally, by our fallen nature.
-2. Islam proves that if we had special rules for lying, we would abuse and manipulate these rules.
C. Therefore, even if it IS alright, morally, to lie under certain circumstance... God CANNOT, and WILL NOT, outline special rules for lying... or we would certainly ABUSE these rules.
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ONE MORE POINT:
D. Even if it IS morally justifiable, at times, for frail, fallen humans to lie... LIES are AGAINST GOD'S NATURE. He CANNOT LIE, neither can he GIVE US A MANDATE TO LIE. It is simply antithetical to his nature, and he cannot do it.
D. Even if it IS morally justifiable, at times, for frail, fallen humans to lie... LIES are AGAINST GOD'S NATURE. He CANNOT LIE, neither can he GIVE US A MANDATE TO LIE. It is simply antithetical to his nature, and he cannot do it.