looking for help reconciling the Sabbath with common observation?

[Davidstarr]

The fact remains:
The 4th (sabbath) commandment is still one of the 10.
You cannot get rid of the 7th day sabbath without getting rid of the entire 10 commandment law.

Any ole pagan nation/religion can have good moral laws concerning worshiping their gods, cursing them, murder, adultery, theft, etc.
But they do not worship the Creator who gave the 10 commandment law (including the ONLY precept that actually IDs which God gave that law).

Turning from paganism (or even Judaism) towards Christianity does not now mean you no longer have to keep the same law that forbids murder, worshiping other gods, theft, adultery.

Sure a man of lawlessness can do good things; love his family, neighbors, co-workers. But even the wicked do those things.

So what sets the true Christian (a follower of Jesus) apart from those wicked that do not kill, steal, etc?
The ability to be saved while committing murder, adultery, worshiping idols? Since they are not under that law anymore?

If a person refuses to follow the Creator who made all things then this leads to anarchy...

 

[TMS]

And you need to understand Christians are under the Law of Christ being under the New Covenant rather than the law of Moses which was under the old covenant.

What is the new covenant?

A better covenant because Jesus has given His blood and we should look at the 2 sides of the Old (God's and mans) and ask what was wrong with God's part in the old?

Was God wrong or did God make any mistakes in His part of the Old covenant.

No.

The people failed on their part.
They failed to love God with all their hearts. They did understand.

Now let us look to Paul's words about the new and old covenant.

Gal 4:22-26

22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

To understand this you need to read all the context. ALL THE CONTEXT.

Gal 5:3-7 KJV 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Much is said about circumcision, and the law. Walking in freedom and not in bondage.

Read it.

But which law is Paul referring to?

WHICH LAW.

Gal 3:16-19

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

The law was added because of transgression 430 years after the promise was given to AbAbraham.

And was only until the seed should come.

And was ordained by Angels in the hand of a mediator.

Clearly this is not the 10 commandments.

The law of adultery and coveting and lying was present before Sinai.

But the cerimonial laws were added at mount Sinai. Because of sin they were given the sanctuary services to confess their sins etc.

The cerimonial laws ended at the cross because Jesus was the lamb that these laws were all a type of. The real thing had come. No longer earthly but now the blood of Jesus was able to be used in the heavenly. Read Hebrews.

And the ten commandments were given by God directly to the people. But God directed Moses over time to give the people the laws contained in ordinances and ceremonies.

Circumcision is not in the 10 commandments.

Gal 3:24-25 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

No longer under this school master...

These shadow laws are gone.

But murder and lying and adultery and taking God's name in vain are still laws that we should obey.

So which law was unto bondage?

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.


The distinction between the law as a yoke of bondage and the law of liberty lies entirely in one’s relationship with Jesus Christ and the motive behind their obedience. When the law is viewed as a way to earn salvation or is kept through human strength alone, it becomes a galling yoke of bondage; however, when written in the heart by the Holy Spirit, it becomes a perfect law of liberty and a source of supreme joy.

Knowing that the cerimonial laws ended at the cross, Paul was upset that the Galations were being persuaded to obey these old laws. Circumcision being one...

While many regard the seventh-day Sabbath as a yoke, for the believer it is a delight and a memorial of God’s power that brings peace and freedom Exodus 20:8-11. Those who walk in harmony with the law of God are not under its condemnation but walk at liberty.

James calls it the law of liberty.

The new covenant is better because Jesus writes it in our hearts and we obey because we love Jesus.

 

[Aaron56]

When the law is viewed as a way to earn salvation or is kept through human strength alone

So some human strength is needed to live in God’s grace…
Is that like reconciling yourself mostly dead in Christ?
“Having been nearly buried with Him…”

You 14%’ers are a hoot!

 

[Davidstarr]

So some human strength is needed to live in God’s grace…
Is that like reconciling yourself mostly dead in Christ?
“Having been nearly buried with Him…”

You 14%’ers are a hoot!

He said nothing of the sort. You are deliberately twisting his words around.

Remember the priests who asked Jesus if they should pay taxes? Or who gave Jesus the authority to do and say the things He did?
They were trick questions.

 

[frederickdoc]

9 of the 10 commandments are repeated in the New Covenant under the L:aw of Christ.





And under the New Covenant there has been an upgrade made to the sabbath

The upgrade is now !The High Preist can Rest and be seated .Jesu this jesus Seated? His wirk is Done. Lord & God Wise men will rest in the rest that the Sabbath was prelude for.rememeber the high priest never got to rest or sit ddown they had to make the unclean clean and and became unclean themselves you couldn't you cannot keep the Sabbath in an unclean state. The priest of all were very busy been worn out using the ash of the red heifer do you not think that this is accomplished and finished ? The high priest Rest because he made sure they're all clean you can see that in the Last Supper without a doubt the most you may need is your feet washed

 

[kv100]

Deuteronomy 5 roots the Sabbath in Israel’s exodus story, not in creation. That makes Sabbath‑keeping a covenant sign unique to Israel’s national identity. Passover is also Israel‑specific, but Deuteronomy’s language about Sabbath is what marks it as distinct from the other nations.

Colossians 2:16–17 is Paul’s explicit statement that Gentile Christians are not to be judged for failing to keep Israel’s covenant calendar—festivals, new moons, or Sabbaths. These were shadows pointing to Christ, and their covenant function was fulfilled in Him.

Jesus says in Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was made for MAN"(as in mankind) so this tells us that it was established and functioned as a law When it was made on the 7th day.

 

[Inquisitor]

Clearly this is not the 10 commandments.

The whole law as he is a debtor to do the whole law not some part of the law (Galatians 5:3)

But which law is Paul referring to?

WHICH LAW.

The law is not divided into sections because Israel agreed to obey the Book of the Covenant, which is the entire package.

What do you think the phrase "the law" means TMS?

Obviously it include the law of Mt Sinai plus the prophets not some philosophical snippet called moral law.

The law was added because of transgression 430 years after the promise was given to AbAbraham.

And was only until the seed should come.

And was ordained by Angels in the hand of a mediator.

Clearly this is not the 10 commandments.

How can you say this is not referring to the ten commandments?

The law that was added was the law that was given at Mt Sinai.

Exodus 20 was spoken by the Lord at Mt Sinai and that was the law 430 years after the promise.

This is crazy talk TMS.

The point you miss is what "the law" means.

Israel received the written law and that included the ten words and that was 430 years later.

Did you notice "written law" and that's exactly what Israel received.

Before Mt Sinai there was no written law of the ten commandments.

Which law?

Your ignoring the whole law given at Mt Sinai and that was written down by Moses.

 

[Inquisitor]

Jesus says in Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was made for MAN"(as in mankind) so this tells us that it was established and functioned as a law When it was made on the 7th day.

No it does not.

The sabbath LAW was only given to Israel (Exodus 16 and Exodus 20).

Your confusing the word "law" with the idea that mankind always had the law.

Israel received the written law and agreed to obey it.

No Gentile nation was in a covenant to obey that law and no Gentile nation ever revieved that written law.

This is where your theology is shredded.

The Gentile nations were never given the whole law and that includes the ten words spoken at Mt Sinai.

 

[Davidstarr]

Principles of the 10 Commandments shown in the Old Testament known before Moses at Mt. Sinai:

1) "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" - Gen 35:1-4
2) "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image..." - Gen 31:19, 34 & 35 and 35:2-4
3) "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain" - Could not be broken before Moses learned God's name at the burning bush.
4) "Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy..." - Gen 2:1-4 is when it was first established. It was "made for man/mankind". The word for "man" in Hebrew is "Adam". Adam was made on day 6, the sabbath made on day 7 FOR HIM. It was also already known before the Israelites went to Mt. Sinai (Ex 16:4 & 22-30)
5) "Honor thy father and thy mother..." - Gen 9:22-25
6) "Thou shalt not kill/murder" - Gen 4:8-11, 23-24 and 9:5-6
7) "Thou shalt not commit adultery" - Gen chapt. 20; 38:24; 39:7-9
8) "Thou shalt not steal" - Gen 30:33; 31:19, 30&32; 44:8
9) "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor" - Gen 39:7-20
10) "Thou shalt not covet..." - Had to be broken before the 7th and 8th commandments could be broken

 

[kv100]

Principles of the 10 Commandments shown in the Old Testament known before Moses at Mt. Sinai:

1) "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" - Gen 35:1-4
2) "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image..." - Gen 31:19, 34 & 35 and 35:2-4
3) "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain" - Could not be broken before Moses learned God's name at the burning bush.
4) "Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy..." - Gen 2:1-4 is when it was first established. It was "made for man/mankind". The word for "man" in Hebrew is "Adam". Adam was made on day 6, the sabbath made on day 7 FOR HIM. It was also already known before the Israelites went to Mt. Sinai (Ex 16:4 & 22-30)
5) "Honor thy father and thy mother..." - Gen 9:22-25
6) "Thou shalt not kill/murder" - Gen 4:8-11, 23-24 and 9:5-6
7) "Thou shalt not commit adultery" - Gen chapt. 20; 38:24; 39:7-9
8) "Thou shalt not steal" - Gen 30:33; 31:19, 30&32; 44:8
9) "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor" - Gen 39:7-20
10) "Thou shalt not covet..." - Had to be broken before the 7th and 8th commandments could be broken

"So God created MAN in his own image, in the image of God created he him; MALE and FEMALE created he them." - Genesis 1:27

 

[OMC]

What is the new covenant?

A better covenant because Jesus has given His blood and we should look at the 2 sides of the Old (God's and mans) and ask what was wrong with God's part in the old?

Was God wrong or did God make any mistakes in His part of the Old covenant.

No.

The people failed on their part.
They failed to love God with all their hearts. They did understand.

Now let us look to Paul's words about the new and old covenant.

Gal 4:22-26

22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

To understand this you need to read all the context. ALL THE CONTEXT.

Gal 5:3-7 KJV 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Much is said about circumcision, and the law. Walking in freedom and not in bondage.

Read it.

But which law is Paul referring to?

WHICH LAW.

Gal 3:16-19

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

The law was added because of transgression 430 years after the promise was given to AbAbraham.

And was only until the seed should come.

And was ordained by Angels in the hand of a mediator.

Clearly this is not the 10 commandments.

The law of adultery and coveting and lying was present before Sinai.

But the cerimonial laws were added at mount Sinai. Because of sin they were given the sanctuary services to confess their sins etc.

The cerimonial laws ended at the cross because Jesus was the lamb that these laws were all a type of. The real thing had come. No longer earthly but now the blood of Jesus was able to be used in the heavenly. Read Hebrews.

And the ten commandments were given by God directly to the people. But God directed Moses over time to give the people the laws contained in ordinances and ceremonies.

Circumcision is not in the 10 commandments.

Gal 3:24-25 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

No longer under this school master...

These shadow laws are gone.

But murder and lying and adultery and taking God's name in vain are still laws that we should obey.

So which law was unto bondage?

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.


The distinction between the law as a yoke of bondage and the law of liberty lies entirely in one’s relationship with Jesus Christ and the motive behind their obedience. When the law is viewed as a way to earn salvation or is kept through human strength alone, it becomes a galling yoke of bondage; however, when written in the heart by the Holy Spirit, it becomes a perfect law of liberty and a source of supreme joy.

Knowing that the cerimonial laws ended at the cross, Paul was upset that the Galations were being persuaded to obey these old laws. Circumcision being one...

While many regard the seventh-day Sabbath as a yoke, for the believer it is a delight and a memorial of God’s power that brings peace and freedom Exodus 20:8-11. Those who walk in harmony with the law of God are not under its condemnation but walk at liberty.

James calls it the law of liberty.

The new covenant is better because Jesus writes it in our hearts and we obey because we love Jesus.

The new covenant is not “the old covenant but with better human performance”; it is the replacement of the Sinai covenant itself — the entire treaty given 430 years after Abraham (Gal 3:17), added because of transgressions (3:19), mediated through angels (3:19), and identified by Paul as “Hagar,” the covenant that “gendereth to bondage” (Gal 4:24).
The problem was not God’s side; the problem was the covenant’s nature — a conditional, national, law‑based treaty that produced slavery in those under it (Gal 4:25).
The new covenant is the Abrahamic promise fulfilled in Christ (Gal 3:16), the “Jerusalem above” covenant (Gal 4:26), grounded in Christ’s blood (Luke 22:20), writing God’s law on the heart (Jer 31:33), giving the Spirit (Gal 3:2), and freeing believers from the Sinai tutor (Gal 3:24–25).
Your distinction between “ceremonial laws ended” and “moral laws remain” is partly true but misses Paul’s sharper point: the entire Sinai covenant is obsolete (Heb 8:13), not just its ceremonies; what continues is God’s moral righteousness, now fulfilled in those who walk by the Spirit (Rom 8:4). Circumcision, Sabbaths, and Sinai‑bondage are gone; Spirit‑empowered obedience remains.

World‑system diagnosis: your explanation reflects System 3 (devotional‑practical moralism), where the new covenant is framed mainly as “better motivation to obey,” while Paul’s argument operates in System 1 (covenant‑juridical), where the issue is the abolition of the Sinai treaty and the inauguration of the promise‑covenant in Christ.