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So some human strength is needed to live in God’s grace…
Is that like reconciling yourself mostly dead in Christ?
“Having been nearly buried with Him…”

You 14%’ers are a hoot!
Do we choose?
Do we have any part to play?

If not it is all God's fault that we are lost.

All the power comes from God but we must surrender self. We must choose to walk in the Spirit and chose not to walk in the flesh.

Without Christ we can do nothing but He does not force us to obey. We must open the door and let Him in.
 
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The whole law as he is a debtor to do the whole law not some part of the law (Galatians 5:3)

The law is not divided into sections because Israel agreed to obey the Book of the Covenant, which is the entire package.

What do you think the phrase "the law" means TMS?

Obviously it include the law of Mt Sinai plus the prophets not some philosophical snippet called moral law.

How can you say this is not referring to the ten commandments?

The law that was added was the law that was given at Mt Sinai.

Exodus 20 was spoken by the Lord at Mt Sinai and that was the law 430 years after the promise.

This is crazy talk TMS.

The point you miss is what "the law" means.

Israel received the written law and that included the ten words and that was 430 years later.

Did you notice "written law" and that's exactly what Israel received.

Before Mt Sinai there was no written law of the ten commandments.

Which law?

Your ignoring the whole law given at Mt Sinai and that was written down by Moses.
There were 2 laws given

One was given by Moses from God, the other was given by God directly.

The moral law—the Ten Commandments—was spoken directly by the mouth of God to the people and written by His own finger, while the ceremonial law (the law of Moses) was dictated to and given by the hand of a mediator.

See Ex 20:1,2. Deut 5:22.
Ex 31:18, 32:16,

The second law, often called the "law of Moses" or "law of commandments contained in ordinances," dealt with the sanctuary service, sacrifices, and judgments peculiar to the Jewish economy. These were given through a mediator because of the people's transgression and their fear of God’s direct presence.

Ex 20:19,
And made known to them your holy sabbath, and commanded them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses your servant :Nehemiah 9:14

Galatians 3:19
Why then serves the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Act 7:37-38
37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. 38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:


ADDED BECAUSE OF SIN.

there was no need for the cerimonial laws before sin. If Adam and humans stayed faithful there would not have been a need for the cerimonial laws.

But the moral laws have been in existence from the start, before sin because they define sin.

The 10 commandments were not added because of sin they define sin.
 
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He means that, unlike Adam, who heard directly from God not to eat from the Tree, those who lived between Adam and Moses never heard from God. He was silent all those years. God never commanded anyone until Moses. Yet, people died anyway. That's his point. God held them responsible for their sins even though there wasn't a commandment forbidding sin.

But no law = no sin.

To understand why "no law" would mean "no sin," we must first look at how the Bible defines sin. Sin is not an abstract concept; it is specifically defined by the moral standard God has set for the universe.

The most direct definition is found in 1 John 3:4, which states that "whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

The law acts as a mirror to show us our true condition. Without it, we would be unaware of our spiritual defects. As it says in Romans 3:20.
"for by the law is the knowledge of sin." Paul further illustrates this in Romans 7:7, saying, "I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet."

For God to justly judge the world, a law must be in place. If there were no law, there could be no violation, and therefore no guilt or penalty.

No Law, = No Transgression: Scripture explicitly links the existence of transgression to the existence of law. Romans 4:15 tells us, "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression."

If God were to abolish His law, He would essentially be abolishing the possibility of sin. However, the Bible confirms the law's presence throughout history because sin was being counted. Romans 5:13 explains, "For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law."

A law known to the people in some way. God talked to people. Before Sinia.

The Strength of Sin: The power that sin has to condemn us comes directly from the law we have broken. 1 Corinthians 15:56 states, "The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law."

Some mistakenly believe the law did not exist until Mount Sinai. However, the presence of death—the wages of sin—proves that the law was already in effect from the very beginning

Because "the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23), the fact that people died before Sinai proves they were transgressors of a law. Romans 5:14 notes, "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses."

Abraham ..... Long before the stone tables were given, God commended Abraham for his loyalty. In Genesis 26:5, the Lord says, "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."

I hope this helps.
 
What about circumcsion?

Circumcision was a covenant commandment given to Abraham (Genesis 17).

The principle of an ordinance, that is, circumcision is in Genesis and in Exodus.

The principle of slavery was widespread in Genesis and even Abraham had slaves. So does slavery get mentioned in the law
in Exodus?

Yes it does.

How about polygamy?

In Exodus 21:10, the law states: "If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, or her
marital rights."
Rather than commanding or praising polygamy, this civil law functioned to protect the economic and
social dignity of a vulnerable first wife if a husband chose to take a second.

Polygamy is a principle in the O.T and is also mentioned in the law in Exodus.

Tithing is a principle in the O.T and Exodus.

Easter and the Lunar Calendar
    • The Catholic Church sets Easter using an ecclesiastical lunar calendar rather than direct astronomical observation.
    • The Rule states that Easter falls on the first Sunday following the first ecclesiastical full moon (the 14th day of a tabular moon cycle) that occurs on or after March 21 (the fixed vernal equinox). (AI)

Do we time church events on the principle of ancient lunar calendars used in Genesis and Exodus?
The 10 commandments do not command circumcision.
Or those other things you mentioned.
They were not written on stone by the finger of God.
 
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But no law = no sin.

To understand why "no law" would mean "no sin," we must first look at how the Bible defines sin. Sin is not an abstract concept; it is specifically defined by the moral standard God has set for the universe.

The most direct definition is found in 1 John 3:4, which states that "whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

The law acts as a mirror to show us our true condition. Without it, we would be unaware of our spiritual defects. As it says in Romans 3:20.
"for by the law is the knowledge of sin." Paul further illustrates this in Romans 7:7, saying, "I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet."

For God to justly judge the world, a law must be in place. If there were no law, there could be no violation, and therefore no guilt or penalty.

No Law, = No Transgression: Scripture explicitly links the existence of transgression to the existence of law. Romans 4:15 tells us, "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression."

If God were to abolish His law, He would essentially be abolishing the possibility of sin. However, the Bible confirms the law's presence throughout history because sin was being counted. Romans 5:13 explains, "For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law."

A law known to the people in some way. God talked to people. Before Sinia.

The Strength of Sin: The power that sin has to condemn us comes directly from the law we have broken. 1 Corinthians 15:56 states, "The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law."

Some mistakenly believe the law did not exist until Mount Sinai. However, the presence of death—the wages of sin—proves that the law was already in effect from the very beginning

Because "the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23), the fact that people died before Sinai proves they were transgressors of a law. Romans 5:14 notes, "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses."

Abraham ..... Long before the stone tables were given, God commended Abraham for his loyalty. In Genesis 26:5, the Lord says, "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."

I hope this helps.
And if murder was not a known law, then it could not have been a sin.
Why would God punish Cain for breaking a law that did not exist?
Yet there is no biblical texts that shows Cain was told murder was wrong.
What of the Great Flood? If no laws existed the antediluvian peoples could NOT have been evil. God would have been unjust killing them all.
What of Sodom and Gomorrah? Where is the command against their promiscuous lifestyles?

Does God actually kill people for breaking laws that do not exist?
 
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So some human strength is needed to live in God’s grace…
Is that like reconciling yourself mostly dead in Christ?
“Having been nearly buried with Him…”

You 14%’ers are a hoot!
"When the law is viewed as a way to earn salvation or is kept through human strength alone, it becomes a galling yoke of bondage; however, when written in the heart by the Holy Spirit, it becomes a perfect law of liberty and a source of supreme joy."

These the words I used. Humans are not able to do any good without Jesus.

Even when we do keep the law in our own power it is worth nothing because it is not the right motive.

God looks at the heart.

And God will write the law in our hearts if you allow Him.
Heb 8:10 I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:....
Rev 3:19-21
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. 21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
 
Do we choose?
Do we have any part to play?

If not it is all God's fault that we are lost.

All the power comes from God but we must surrender self. We must choose to walk in the Spirit and chose not to walk in the flesh.

Without Christ we can do nothing but He does not force us to obey. We must open the door and let Him in.
Right. To my point: you've reckoned yourself still living when you should be dead. The Sinai law bears no weight against the dead.
 
The law is not divided into sections because Israel agreed to obey the Book of the Covenant, which is the entire package.

What do you think the phrase "the law" means TMS?

Obviously it include the law of Mt Sinai plus the prophets not some philosophical snippet called moral law.
The law is different.

One was written on stone by God and placed inside the ark, under the mercy seat. The other was written by Moses as he was directed by God and placed in the side of the ark.

The covenant made with Israel included the different laws.. one covenant, multiple laws.

The covenant ended and the deal was finished but does that mean all laws are void.

The phrase "the law" can mean different things depending on the context and wording used.

It can range from the specific Ten Commandments to the entire Old Testament or even the principle of faith. Understanding these distinctions is essential for a clear grasp of God's Word.

Paul identifies "the law" by quoting the precept against coveting. Romans 7:7

Statutes and Judgments: These were the "handwritten" ordinances given at Horeb, distinct from the tables of stone. Malachi 4:4.

Ceremonies were only added because the moral law had been transgressed; they were never intended to be the means of salvation themselves. Galatians 3:19.

Sometimes "the law" refers to the first five books of the Bible or the Old Testament scriptures as a whole.

The Law and the Prophets: This phrase is often used to describe the entire body of inspired writing given to Israel.

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

There are many laws in the bible ...

The law of faith
The law of sin
The laws of nature

So context and understanding is important.

The covenant is the agreement made.

The keeping of the laws were only part of the agreement.
 
Right. To my point: you've reckoned yourself still living when you should be dead. The Sinai law bears no weight against the dead.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:8-10
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

I delight in the law too. The Spirit delights in the law which is Spiritual.

But the flesh can not obey it.

So the flesh needs to die.

Rom 8:4-7
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
 
I posted this a week ago and no one explained how we can freely transgress the 4th commandment. James is clear that you are transgressing all when you transgress one.
The sabbath is one of the laws.

"
Jas 2:10-12
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

This is the 10 commandments.

When you fail to keep the 4th commandment you sin as a transgressor of the law.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."
 
If we are going to be judged, And the judgement will determine our eternal life or eternal death, do you think the judge needs to be clear about the standard? How we are judged?

If we sin (only one sin, any sin, which is the transgression of the law), we are worthy of death and should be guilty of eternal death.

What is sin? The thing that causes our eternal death is sin so sin needs to be clearly defined by God.

God spoke the Ten commandments out load and wrote them with His own finger.
This was a clearly defined event. Clearly written by God and clearly understood.

The law was placed inside the Holy ark

The ark is the central symbol of the divine presence and the foundation of God's government, representing the intersection between heaven and earth.

This peace of furniture was in the most Holy place
The Holy of Holies.

Once a year the high priest went into this room. The day of Atonement..

ATONEMENT.

The ark was the most sacred object in the sanctuary, where the divine presence was manifested in a cloud of glory between the cherubim.
Above the ark was the mercy seat, which appeared as an exceeding bright glory where God dwelt, representing His living throne in the heavenly sanctuary. Ezekiel 1:26

Because the law is within the ark, it represents that righteousness and justice are the very foundation of God's throne Psalm 99:1.
The cover of the ark, known as the mercy seat, signified that while death is the penalty for transgressing the law, mercy is available through Jesus Christ.

And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightning, and voices, and thunder, and an earthquake, and great hail. Revelation 11:19

Without the law the mercy is not needed.
Without a law there is no sin which means no needs for atonement.
No need for salvation.

When Jesus died..... did He make the law void. ...... or did He pay the price for transgressing the law?

Does Jesus make us righteous by removing the law or by giving us His own righteousness.

The law remains unchanged but we have forgiveness and mercy through faith.
By faith we believe that Jesus saves us from our sin, the transgression of the law.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.