Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"

[OIC1965]

Foreknowledge has nothing to do with what Arminans and calvinists teach .

You show that you understand nothing of what either teaches. Both teach predestination based on foreknowledge, ( they define the term differently, though) as do all who let the Bible say what it says

The only argument you have is to say the Petrine epistles are written and apply to Jewish Christians only. A weak and errant argument.

 

[OIC1965]

Next time you read Rom 8 .29 ask your self when were they foreknown . Does it say " before the foundation " ? Does it say " in my mother's womb" ?

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Israel are God's ' chosen ' in the sense of being His first born son . Thats how God ' knows ' them and how they are foreknown. It has nothing to do with gnosctism or determinism or ' in the mind of God 'theories and philosophy.

Does it say after conversion? Nooooo!

It does put foreknowledge before calling and justification, which throws a monkey wrench into your argument, though.

 

[OIC1965]

28¶As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

Enemies . Israel. Not saved . But the Elect .
To answer a previous point on ' election ' being for purpose ect and not to salvation.

Where does it say only Jews are the Elect? You need to read the whole section of Romans 9-11, because you’re missing Paul’s intent badly.

 

[OIC1965]

28¶As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

Enemies . Israel. Not saved . But the Elect .
To answer a previous point on ' election ' being for purpose ect and not to salvation.

The same Greek word eklektos is applied to the church at Collossi. Colossians 3:12...and you still are excluding some ( many) Christians from the blessings of Romans 8:28- to the end of the chapter. ( see Romans 8:33-34).

 

[OIC1965]

Read Romans 8:33-34

Who is Christ interceding for in Romans 8:34?

@throughfaith. You never answered this. Please respond.

 

[throughfaith]

You show that you understand nothing of what either teaches. Both teach predestination based on foreknowledge, ( they define the term differently, though) as do all who let the Bible say what it says

The only argument you have is to say the Petrine epistles are written and apply to Jewish Christians only. A weak and errant argument.

You said that Paul was not a Jewish convert .

 

[throughfaith]

Where does it say only Jews are the Elect? You need to read the whole section of Romans 9-11, because you’re missing Paul’s intent badly.

Elected to do what? chosen for what ? You might want to throw out your Old testament if you cannot see that Israel/ Jews Are God's ' chosen ' Chosen FOR something. Chosen to DO something.

 

[throughfaith]

@throughfaith. You never answered this. Please respond.

The believers at Rome . And Paul of course .

 

[throughfaith]

The same Greek word eklektos is applied to the church at Collossi. Colossians 3:12...and you still are excluding some ( many) Christians from the blessings of Romans 8:28- to the end of the chapter. ( see Romans 8:33-34).

We can go round and round and round on this , but its just a word ' elect' . We ask Elected to do what ? Chosen for what ? You think the doctrine of ' election ' when the bible is just using words . Its like a trigger now which blows the whole usage of the word out of proportion. Like when a jehovah witness gets hung up on ' First born ' and then claims Jesus is a created being. The first born literally created by God .

 

[throughfaith]

Where does it say only Jews are the Elect? You need to read the whole section of Romans 9-11, because you’re missing Paul’s intent badly.

I said the Jews are THE elect . Chosen for what ? to do what ? for the purpose of ? I don't claim this is the ONLY use of the WORD .

 

[throughfaith]

Where does it say only Jews are the Elect? You need to read the whole section of Romans 9-11, because you’re missing Paul’s intent badly.

You said Peter was a rabbi .

 

[OIC1965]

The believers at Rome . And Paul of course .

Only them? Not the church at Phillippi or Galatia or Ephesus etc.

And don't avoid the question. What does Paul call them in verse 33-34?

ELECT. Christ is interceding for the ELECT in verses 33-34. INCLUDING THE ELECT AT THE CHURCH OF ROME THAT CONSISTED OF JEW AND GENTILE.

 

[OIC1965]

Elected to do what? chosen for what ? You might want to throw out your Old testament if you cannot see that Israel/ Jews Are God's ' chosen ' Chosen FOR something. Chosen to DO something.

Many things, including to be holy and without blame before God in love. Pure salvation language right there.

Holy- Sanctified
Blameless- Justified
in love- Reconciled relationship.

That's salvation language right there, cowboy.

 

[OIC1965]

You said that Paul was not a Jewish convert .

I did? Where did I say that?

 

[OIC1965]

You said Peter was a rabbi .

I did? Where?

 

[OIC1965]

Next time you read Rom 8 .29 ask your self when were they foreknown . Does it say " before the foundation " ? Does it say " in my mother's womb" ?

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Israel are God's ' chosen ' in the sense of being His first born son . Thats how God ' knows ' them and how they are foreknown. It has nothing to do with gnosctism or determinism or ' in the mind of God 'theories and philosophy.

Since you throw Gnosticism around so much and you also threw around Manicheism, why don't you define the two for me, Try to do it without googling it.

 

[throughfaith]

Many things, including to be holy and without blame before God in love. Pure salvation language right there.

Holy- Sanctified
Blameless- Justified
in love- Reconciled relationship.

That's salvation language right there, cowboy.

All believers are chosen to do and be yes i agree No believer is chosen to be un holy and blame worthy . Paul was chosen to be an apostle to the gentiles . Israel was Chosen as a Nation to do all things stated in the old testament. What has this got to do with your theology?

 

[OIC1965]

Israel are God's ' chosen ' in the sense of being His first born son . Thats how God ' knows ' them and how they are foreknown. It has nothing to do with gnosctism or determinism or ' in the mind of God 'theories and philosophy.

SO then Romans 8:28-30 has nothing to do with Gentile believers? IS that what you're saying?

Because if that is the meaning of foreknowledge, then Romans 8:29-30 only applies to Jewish converts.

See how messy you are?

 

[OIC1965]

All believers are chosen to do and be yes i agree

Can you be holy and without blame without salvation?

...and I'm still waiting for where it says Foreknowledge and predestination come after conversion.

 

[OIC1965]

Agreed... this is what Romans 11:2 is saying... they were "known" ['which He foreknew'; Strong's - "know (before)"] before the time Romans was being written (i.e. way back in the OT times when God "chose" them and worked through them, in this earth/world )... the understood QUESTION (Rom9-11) basically being, "what of the promises made to Israel? [where are they??]"

That is how I understand it. = )



Then there's the word "fore-hoped" in Ephesians 1:12, "G4276 - proelpizo / proēlpikotas " (pretty much speaking of the same OT time-frame... that is, before Christ came)

Who was foreknown in Romans 8:29