Loss of salvation???

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Believing or "knowing" you are saved, regardless of the level of sincerity or confidence does not equate to salvation.
Ooo tricky. Good one. 🙄 Do we really know if they’re saved? They’re certainly not gonna find it on here. Maybe if they find one post in the midst of the 25K post thread on salvation, out of literally every thread on here. It’s like a podiatrist’s forum where all they talk about is birthing, and then they get off topic with “are babies ever really born?” Lol
 
Ooo tricky. Good one. 🙄 Do we really know if they’re saved? They’re certainly not gonna find it on here. Maybe if they find one post in the midst of the 25K post thread on salvation, out of literally every post on here. It’s like a podiatrist’s forum where all they talk about is birthing, and then they get off topic with “are babies ever really born?” Lol
Your comment is babble.
 
Well, tell me about you experience with receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

When I received my baptism, I had no idea what it was that was happening to me.
For I was brought up Jewish. I had never learned anything about regeneration.

How it began...

One day in college I accepted a tract from someone on campus during a low point in my life.
As I read it, I found myself wanting to believe in Jesus.
I simply said the prayer without having any expectations.
I read that tract and said the prayer as I was walking to class.

It was at a very depressing time in history.
It was during the Vietnam War.

My baptism was a very subtle but powerful, transforming experience.
In the next few weeks after, I began to experience a new inner strength to change concerning certain weaknesses that I could not overcome before. I still made no connection to the prayer.

I also went through a startling period where I began to see certain things in life that I had seen as normal but now as being evil.
I was unable to understand why I was changing. I had not yet come to grips with the supernatural being real.

Bad habits were simply being dropped and stopped. I somehow knew that certain things would no longer have a grip on me.
I began having a series of dreams that were coming to pass.
But that was the easy part.

Then it happened.

On Thanksgiving night that same year I went to sleep and woke up never to be the same person again.
I entered into a powerful vision/dream unlike anything I had ever experienced before.

In the vision-like dream, my life was unfolding before my eyes, seeing my future life, but only to discover later that it was about my future as things came to pass.

I must omit details...
Keeping it short...

I was shown while having that dream, experiencing buildings being shaken and demolished as I tried to seek shelter in them. I was running from one place to another with my heart pounding. I was feeling scared like a child feels watching a horror movie.

Finally, I found myself running into a Red Cross shelter. One that was situated inside what appeared to be a school gymnasium.
Then... With the fear of death in my heart, I confronted what had been chasing me.
Then a few things happened that turned out to be humorous...

Out of necessity, I am leaving a lot out...
I want to get to a point.

After waking up from that vision/dream, it was put on my heart from that day on to seek for and find the Red Cross shelter.
I did not know why I was to do so, or even if it was really existing.
But I was on a quest...

Thus began a ten-year search for me.
In those years I was introduced to cults and sects along the way. .

Ten years after that dream, my Jewish sister opened her house to a Christian Bible study.
I was invited and I went.
It was there that I believed I first got saved.
But it was not the case...

One night after a Bible study I had a conversation with one of the people who organized it.
It was headed up by students from a Bible college about three hours away.
I described to him what I was shown in a dream.
I asked if it sounded anything like the school.

He told me something on campus sounded much like what I described.
Then I told him maybe I would come visit some day.
He then asked me to drive up with the students and take a look.

Long story short.
The school turned out to be what I dreamt about.
And with one interesting twist.

I had that dream ten years earlier.
Ten years earlier?
That Bible college was not there.

Yes.
I had been baptized into the Spirit.
The Holy Spirit who gave me that dream.
 
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When I received my baptism, I had no idea what it was that was happening to me.
For I was brought up Jewish. I had never learned anything about regeneration.

How it began...

One day in college I accepted a tract from someone on campus during a low point in my life.
As I read it, I found myself wanting to believe in Jesus.
I simply said the prayer without having any expectations.
I read that tract and said the prayer as I was walking to class.

It was at a very depressing time in history.
It was during the Vietnam War.

My baptism was a very subtle but powerful, transforming experience.
In the next few weeks after, I began to experience a new inner strength to change concerning certain weaknesses that I could not overcome before. I still made no connection to the prayer.

I also went through a startling period where I began to see certain things in life that I had seen as normal but now as being evil.
I was unable to understand why I was changing. I had not yet come to grips with the supernatural being real.

Bad habits were simply being dropped and stopped. I somehow knew that certain things would no longer have a grip on me.
I began having a series of dreams that were coming to pass.
But that was the easy part.

Then it happened.

On Thanksgiving night that same year I went to sleep and woke up never to be the same person again.
I entered into a powerful vision/dream unlike anything I had ever experienced before.

In the vision-like dream, my life was unfolding before my eyes, seeing my future life, but only to discover later that it was about my future as things came to pass.

I must omit details...
Keeping it short...

I was shown while having that dream, experiencing buildings being shaken and demolished as I tried to seek shelter in them. I was running from one place to another with my heart pounding. I was feeling scared like a child feels watching a horror movie.

Finally, I found myself running into a Red Cross shelter. One that was situated inside what appeared to be a school gymnasium.
Then... With the fear of death in my heart, I confronted what had been chasing me.
Then a few things happened that turned out to be humorous...

Out of necessity, I am leaving a lot out...
I want to get to a point.

After waking up from that vision/dream, it was put on my heart from that day on to seek for and find the Red Cross shelter.
I did not know why I was to do so, or even if it was really existing.
But I was on a quest...

Thus began a ten-year search for me.
In those years I was introduced to cults and sects along the way. .

Ten years after that dream, my Jewish sister opened her house to a Christian Bible study.
I was invited and I went.
It was there that I believed I first got saved.
But it was not the case...

One night after a Bible study I had a conversation with one of the people who organized it.
It was headed up by students from a Bible college about three hours away.
I described to him what I was shown in a dream.
I asked if it sounded anything like the school.

He told me something on campus sounded much like what I described.
Then I told him maybe I would come visit some day.
He then asked me to drive up with the students and take a look.

Long story short.
The school turned out to be what I dreamt about.
And with one interesting twist.

I had that dream ten years earlier.
Ten years earlier?
That Bible college was not there.

Yes.
I had been baptized into the Spirit.
The Holy Spirit who gave me that dream.
Wow, thanks for sharing. That’s a lot.
 
Many believed on Jesus and were saved.
Only those who made themselves to follow became disciples.
Many followed Him by attending church and kept on learning the Word of God.
Jesus is the Word. (John 1:1) = Following Him.

.
Not every saved person wants to follow Christ.
Some would rather follow their own version of Jesus.
These believers end up producing wood, hay, and stubble.
These ones will lose all rewards, but remain saved just the same.


For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. ​
If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, ​
their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be ​
revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. If what has ​
been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will ​
suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.​
​
1 Corinthians 3:11-15​

There will be believers who will lose all rewards for failing to follow Christ, but not lose their salvation!

If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the ​
builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through ​
the flames.​
​
Desiring and finding sound doctrine is what produces gold, silver, and costly stones. = Eternal rewards.

Grace and peace ...........

I think we've exhausted this conversation in another thread.... We're saved thought faith in Jesus, we know this. Whether we think the belief is imposed on us by the Spirit or that we choose Him, we're in God's story thanks to His grace and will see eternity through His promise
Many believed on Jesus and were saved.
Only those who made themselves to follow became disciples.
Many followed Him by attending church and kept on learning the Word of God.
Jesus is the Word. (John 1:1) = Following Him.

.
Not every saved person wants to follow Christ.
Some would rather follow their own version of Jesus.
These believers end up producing wood, hay, and stubble.
These ones will lose all rewards, but remain saved just the same.


For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. ​
If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, ​
their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be ​
revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. If what has ​
been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will ​
suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.​
​
1 Corinthians 3:11-15​

There will be believers who will lose all rewards for failing to follow Christ, but not lose their salvation!

If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the ​
builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through ​
the flames.​
​
Desiring and finding sound doctrine is what produces gold, silver, and costly stones. = Eternal rewards.

Grace and peace ...........

I think we've exhausted this conversation in another thread.... We're saved thought faith in Jesus, we know this. Whether we think the belief is imposed on us by the Spirit or that we choose Him, we're in God's story thanks to His grace and will see eternity through His promise.

Romans 10:13
 
Yeah, we’ve exhausted it.

There’s a misunderstanding between being baptized at church and being filled / baptized with the Holy spirit.

Either way…
 
The key word in that verse is "and". It doesn't say if you only believe you are saved.
I disagree based upon the rest of the Verse that clarifies whoever does not believe is condemned. Notice that it doesn't mention anything about if you are not Baptized you will be condemned. It only mentions if you do not believe you will be condemned.

You will never get baptized until you believe any way. Being baptized is secondary to believing. And the Bible is specific about Baptism is merely for a clear consciousness. Having a clear consciousness is not Salvation. So the most important condition to the Verse is specifically Believing.
 
John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

"verily verily" means like "absolutely" and "hath" means you "possess" something.

After you've heard and believed, and "passed from death unto life", you now possess something called "everlasting life". How can it be that you "shall not come into condemnation" if you still can be condemned again?
 
Yeah, we’ve exhausted it.

There’s a misunderstanding between being baptized at church and being filled / baptized with the Holy spirit.

Either way…

In the early days believers had continued with water baptism as the baptism of the Spirit began making itself known.
But now there is to be only one baptism.
We need to decide today which one is that One Baptism.
​
​
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope ​
when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and ​
Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. Ephesians 4:4-6​

Much like what took place with the early church age in its beginning days...the Exodus began with signs and wonders.
But the signs and wonders ceased along with the receiving of the Word of God in writing as it was to be revealed in that day.

God has an order to His system of establishing His people.
He first plows the field with signs and wonders.
He opens up the soil...
Then He plants Scripture and waters it with the teaching of the Word of God.

Those who seek signs and wonders?
They seek to worship God without understanding.

A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, ​
and no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the ​
prophet Jonah.” And He left them and departed.​
​
Matthew 16:4​

Where there is freedom, we will find all kinds of people seeking to worship God as they see fit to do so.
In allowing for this, God discovers those who want to be true to Him while the others remain free to follow
after their own way of seeing things.

.........
 
I think we've exhausted this conversation in another thread.... We're saved through faith in Jesus, we know this. Whether we think the belief is imposed on us by the Spirit or that we choose Him, we're in God's story thanks to His grace and will see eternity through His promise.

Grace is divine power from God, making us be able to do what we do not have the strength nor ability to do.
That is why it says it is grace that saves us.

Faith is then given as evidence to us that grace is real and working in us.

Grace is power. God's power. Enabling power.
Enabling us to become what does merit God's favor.
Enabling us to know and to walk by faith.
​
But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, ​
for my power is made perfect in weakness.” ​
​
Therefore, I will boast all the more gladly about ​
my weaknesses so that Christ’s power may ​
rest on me.​
​
2 Corinthians 12:9​
 
The key word in that verse is "and". It doesn't say if you only believe you are saved.
two problems

1. It does not way what baptism (HS or Water)
2. It does not say if you believe and are not baptized your not saved.

I can add another. it contradicts Jesus in John 3. no baptism mentioned, because no baptism required
 
two problems

1. It does not way what baptism (HS or Water)
2. It does not say if you believe and are not baptized your not saved.

I can add another. it contradicts Jesus in John 3. no baptism mentioned, because no baptism required
The thief on the cross who believed in Jesus was not water baptized after he believed.
 
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two problems

1. It does not way what baptism (HS or Water)
2. It does not say if you believe and are not baptized your not saved.

I can add another. it contradicts Jesus in John 3. no baptism mentioned, because no baptism required
Hi brother,

How you doing?
Great response
Oneness?
Catholic?

Love to you brother.
 
The key word in that verse is "and". It doesn't say if you only believe you are saved.

You think baptism is the only way to receive God/Jesus/Holy Spirit and have your sins remitted?

Acts 10:43-44

43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
 
The key word in that verse is "and". It doesn't say if you only believe you are saved.

Here are some more verses that are worth pondering...

Jesus himself was born of water and spirit already when He came into the world. This is the reason you are baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Verse 8 shows you how they bear witness on the earth working together to save people.

1 John 5:5-9

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
 
The key word in that verse is "and". It doesn't say if you only believe you are saved.

Here's another one to consider...

Repentance and remission of sin is preached in Jesus' name because ONLY HE can fulfill it.

Here is a more detailed explanation of my view using A.I.:

The Bible teaches that repentance and the remission of sins are secured through faith in Jesus Christ and His sacrificial blood, rather than through the physical act of water baptism. While Acts 2:38 commands baptism, other scriptures demonstrate that forgiveness is granted directly to those who believe and repent, without mentioning water.

Salvation Through Faith, Not Water
The Apostle Peter explicitly states that belief in Jesus, not baptism, is the mechanism for receiving forgiveness. In Acts 10:43, Peter preaches, "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." This declaration occurs before any mention of baptism, indicating that faith in Christ's name is the sufficient condition for remission. Similarly, Acts 3:19 commands, "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out," omitting any requirement for water baptism in the process of being cleansed.

Forgiveness Through the Blood of Christ
The New Testament consistently attributes the cleansing from sin to the blood of Jesus, not the water of baptism. Colossians 1:14 states, "In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins." 1 John 1:7 reinforces this, noting that "the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." If water baptism were the means of remission, these passages would attribute cleansing to water rather than Christ's blood.

Baptism as Identification, Not Causation
Water baptism is presented as the symbolic identification with Christ and a public confession of faith, rather than the cause of forgiveness. In Acts 2:41, those who "gladly received his word were baptized," showing that baptism followed their acceptance of the gospel message (repentance/faith). 1 Peter 3:21 clarifies that baptism saves not by the removal of dirt from the body, but as "an appeal to God for a good conscience" through the resurrection of Jesus. Romans 10:9-10 further specifies that salvation comes from confessing with the mouth and believing in the heart, with no mention of water immersion.
 
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