Loss of salvation???

[Cameron143]

Well as a Reformed Minister once stated we are only 2000 years into Christianity, the best is yet to come and he was not talking about the Millennium.

I believe the church is still in its infancy. We think we know so much, and yet we know far less than what there is to know.

 

[homwardbound]

I believe the church is still in its infancy. We think we know so much, and yet we know far less than what there is to know.

Do we not see, what happened in AD 70, not one brick left on top of the other. Man has rebuilt it and has called it the Church
Really? God does not live in buildings, God lives in his children, the Ecclesia = called out ones.
I see this, we each that are God's in belief to God, willing to learn new from God personally each are born again and not of flesh nature anymore.
Born in God's Spirit and Truth, dead to the first birth
I see, you see and then I thought I saw, now not as did, it gets deep, high and wide, to see new in maturity given you too. (Hebrews 5:12- Chapter 6)

I started out a Religious nut, (Sometimes still am), God taking me in and working with me, to grow Spiritual fruit. His done work for us each. It is to be new in God's Spirit and Truth (John 4:23-24), to learn to be led by God only as we make many mistakes to learn new from, at least I have made many mistakes over and over the same ones and yet God continues to love me and y'all too
That be me!
I remember, asking God, walking down the road, saying. God why are you not killing ,me, I just did another wrong, I see to not do and yet do it as Paul talks on in Romans 7.

God's reply I get from within me, (not from others) "My Grace is sufficient for thee" I am not excusing you to continue in any sin. I forgave you by my Son for you. For you to be in a personal relationship with me, where we can talk about it and you choose. When you agree with me, then you will choose with me.
Drinking gone 40 years ago now, by God not by me, (Only in being in agreement with God, that drinking, it was not good for me) having to do it, better do it or else attitudes of people working to have or keep salvation, keeps us the people in confined sin status, at least did me, not that I am perfect, I am not. as I have heard from others, includes me, to do Law as spoke of in Romans 7is a lie (Romans 7:10) yet law remains perfect as I am not, trying to be gets me tied up in a yoke of bondage, since God took all sin upon himself for us the people, is done (John 19:30). To now enter God's throne of grace with confidence, "I have a friend in Jesus" Psalm 100:4 filled by Son for us all to believe God or not.
Then to see by Son on that cross in a one time willing death did take away all sin from Father's sight, so we can enter God's throne personally and have a relationship to not be condemned, and be in work to try to be in. We are in by God through Son for us.
To see Psalm 103:12 all sin taken away by Son as in John 1:29. behold the Lamb that takes away all sin for us each, in Father's sight for us.
Wow!!!!!!!!!!! this is for me and all others also!
What an amazing grace. Therefore, No Lord I do not want to sin anymore ever again. God states, God's grace is sufficient. (2 Cor 12:7-10)
Okay, now what do we do with that?
I see this: the choice is
To work this grace given in one's iniquity or Glory in it, this is from God to thee?

I choose glory, "I need God to lead me, not me lead or anyone else but God through me, anyone else?
I, to be in full use for me is to be a willing vessel for God to use to tell the truth to all God loves us all y'all start right there as your premise in thanksgiving and praise too
Ask fro the new heart (Ezekiel 36:26)

 

[Chaps]

Again, thanks for the reply. The reason I asked the particular questions I did was so a couple of things would be considered. In Romans 1 we are told that the the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen. In creation, God made man to procreate by means of birth. He could have done so in an infinite number of ways, but He chose to do so as He did. And He chose as He did to reveal to us more about Himself and His ways. So in physical birth, there is revealed to us an understanding of spiritual birth. We can go into the many things that are revealed, but one that is pertinent to our discussion is that once conception has taken place, life has begun. And that soul will exist forever. When spiritual life occurs, that soul will exist forever with God.
I recognize there are many verses that seem to suggest that truly born from above believers can lose their salvation. But the Bible is written in such a way as man through His natural senses and understanding cannot fully grasp its meaning. For true understanding, revelation is required. That is, understanding that God alone can provide. It means something to be IN CHRIST. One can only be placed into Christ by the Spirit. And this is done when someone is saved...1 Corinthians 12:13. And there is a particular love God has for those who are in Christ that is different from His love for creation as a whole. That is, the fact that God sent His Son into the world to die is indeed a manifestation of His love. But when He comes to an individual and saves them, He has particularly manifested His affection to that particular individual. In other words, there is a difference between knowing God loves, and experiencing that love personally. One is a statement of truth. The other is the experience of that truth. Salvation is the manifestation of love of God to you. And once known, life becomes a continual pursuit to know the length, and depth, and breadth of this love.
I say all of this because just as there are verses that suggest salvation can be undone, there are just as many that say it cannot be so. The ones that suggest that it can are always related to the behavior of men. The ones that suggest it cannot are related to the actions of God. Those whose lives are centered on their own behavior see how unfaithful they are and know that they are capable of walking away from God. Those whose lives are centered in God know He is faithful and that what He has secured for us in Christ He is faithful to secure throughout eternity.
I hope you come to the latter. There is a rest for the people of God.

Thanks for responding. I understand you have your convictions and that is fine. We will likely just agree to disagree. Let me just respond to two points you made:

While certainly there are some spiritual things that are reflected in physical things, but I think it is overreaching to draw such doctrinal conclusions based on these supposed comparisons. Especially when Scripture explicitly teaches the contrary. Moreover, there are many spiritual things that are not like physical things. Jesus said the angels are not like humans in that they are not married and given in marriage. Proverbs says there is a way that seems right to a man but the end of it is death and our ways are not God’s ways. Paul says that God uses foolishness to confound the wise and the weak things of the world to shame the strong. The poor in spirit are blessed and the meek inherit the earth. Death is the path to life and you must lose your life to find it. Of the heavenly kingdom we do not say, “here it is“ or “there it is” for the Kingdom of God is within you. So while there may be many spiritual things that can be illustrated by physical realities, there are also spiritual realities that are the exact opposite of physical ones. And again, I think Jesus makes this point specifically referring to spiritual birth. Nicodemus’ effort to compare spiritual birth to physical birth is seen to reveal a lack of spiritual maturity on Nicodemus’ part, according to Jesus. “You are a teacher of the Law and you do not understand these things” he replies.

I agree with you that there is a particular love God has for His Church and His children. However, as I stated before, that love is not because of some status we have attained. That love is based on who we identify with. When we are “in Christ“ we are seen by virtue of Christ’s righteousness. However, if a person rejects Christ, goes back to animal sacrifice (in the case of the warnings of Hebrews), or rejects the Gospel they had once accepted…God will not force them to be “in Christ” if they turn away from him. So, this is not a matter of God’s love faltering, but the individual rejecting that love. I dont know about you, but I have known many, passionate, knowledgeable and sold out believers who later in life turned from the faith and embraced Buddhism, Atheism, Paganism or various other beliefs while rejecting Jesus and his message. The idea that these people were never really believers or they wouldn’t have done that I think is too convenient an answer and casts more uncertainty and doubt on the status of a persons salvation at any given moment than the view I am proposing. After all, I’d feel a lot more insecure if I had to somehow parse out what “saving faith” looked like in a person’s life than someone who didnt. What if my faith wasn’t actually “saving faith?” And biblically, we never see such a thing as faith that doesn’t save. You either have faith or you don‘t. And someone who was a passionate, bible-believing person who lived for Jesus and later walks away is simply someone who did not endure in their belief. It wasn’t the quality or source of their faith, it was the lack of persistence in faith. At least that is the only way the Bible describes it as far as I can tell.

 

[Chaps]

Just speaking to the general conversation of spiritual birth and specifically the distinction between those born of the flesh and those born of the spirit, and more specifically born of God. A human father begets, and when the Holy Spirit descended from heaven and rested on Jesus, a voice from heaven said, "This is my beloved Son..."
And Acts 13:33 in the context of the witness of the Son's resurrection, Hebrews1:5 in the context of the Supremacy of the Son and Hebrews5:5 in the context of the Son's Priesthood, each referencing Psalm2:7
7I will proclaim the decree
spoken to Me by the LORD:
“You are My Son;
today I have become Your Father.c

Then, there is the context of Christ the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep, that is the first to be raise from the dead. Although there were others previously raised from the dead, but none raised to never see decay.

ICorinthians 15:19If our hope in Christ is for this life alone, we are to be pitied more than all men.
The Order of Resurrection
20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him.

Acts 26:22But I have had God’s help to this day, and I stand here to testify to small and great alike. I am saying nothing beyond what the prophets and Moses said would happen: 23that the Christ would suffer, and as the first to rise from the dead, would proclaim light to our people and to the Gentiles.”

So, if anyone could answer the question at which event was Jesus begotten, then I could get a better understanding of whether any particular individual has been/is/or will be spiritually begotten of God.

The Witness of John 1
12But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.

Are you a Jehovah’s Witness?

This is why I think there is real danger in making 1:1 comparisons between spiritual concepts and physical processes. Jesus being declared to be the only begotten Son of God is not referring to his coming into existence but his status as heir. There are plenty of verses that speak of Jesus’ eternal nature.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Before the cross, I forgave to get forgiven, if did not forgive, I could not be forgiven, I had to do to get
Before the cross, I loved to get loved, if I did not love, I could not be loved

Do you see the conundrum above? there is a before and after the cross. I now love because I am loved first by God, I now forgive, because I am forgiven by God through Son on that cross, it is finished for us to do that in response, not work of self.

Today is after the cross, not before the cross. We the people are looking back at the cross as those before it, looked forward to it, Hebrews 11

Looking back, to what is now done by Son, there are only two responses, To believe God or not in risen Son after he first took away all sin on that cross in his shed blood, once for all.
This took me on, when I got to see, this done work of Son for all. I went Lord, I just sinned again and got angry over something again, what do I do?
Stop trying to stop sin, because you can't stop it, no flesh can but my Son's, who did it once for everyone to repent to me in reconciliation given them through Son Jesus.

Yeah Lord, okay, I want to, yet I am having trouble(s) (Romans 7, 8)
So go over there to the edge of this world and look over the cliff you see. I do that and see over that edge. Scary looking down.
Then I hear Jump! I reply what? No way. (God replies), Do you not trust me? Well yes God, I do! you know I do. Then jump. I reply No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am doing pretty good behaving am I not, I do not do this and or that, and am willing to learn how to not do wrong. I think I am doing the best I can.
Yeah, you are zealous
Now if you do trust me and you do willingly jump off this cliff for me in trust to me. Do you not think I will not catch you in the palm of my hand?????????????????????
Oh yes, Lord I know not how, yet that you will, Thank you, I jumped off that cliff spiritually for God to tech me new and cause me to stand, as I saw I needed to completely trust God to do it, not myself or anyone else anymore
Still learning in process, growing in God's grace as sufficient. god can do what no other can do, proof is Jesus the Son for me to not deny God ever the Father of Son

Philippians 3:12-15

Living Bible

12 I don’t mean to say I am perfect. I haven’t learned all I should even yet, but I keep working toward that day when I will finally be all that Christ saved me for and wants me to be.
13 No, dear brothers, I am still not all I should be, but I am bringing all my energies to bear on this one thing: Forgetting the past and looking forward to what lies ahead,14 I strain to reach the end of the race and receive the prize for which God is calling us up to heaven because of what Christ Jesus did for us.
15 I hope all of you who are mature Christians will see eye-to-eye with me on these things, and if you disagree on some point, I believe that God will make it plain to you—

“Before the cross, I forgave to get forgiven, if did not forgive, I could not be forgiven, I had to do to get
Before the cross, I loved to get loved, if I did not love, I could not be loved”

so because Jesus died for your sins you no longer need to listen to his words and obey him ? You’re saved by the cross which means now this isn’t true for you ?

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Your argument is that before the cross Jesus said one thing and after it’s not true ?

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:25‬ ‭

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But if we don’t reject the gospel what the lord the judge said

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“ The cross “ doesn’t erase the words of Jesus it made then eternal when he rose up made his word the same for everyone

This is after he died and rose

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The words of Jesus will always be for those who believe in him We should be careful not to reject what he’s saying

“For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭9:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The atonement doesn’t change or end the words it made them forever applicable after Jesus died not before the law was still in effect until he died

“For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living.

This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. When Moses had proclaimed every command of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. He said, “This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep.””
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:15-20‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Jesus did the same thing he preached Gods word to everyone then he suffered and died shedding his blood then he rose d his words were now in effect anyone who believed after this upd be saved but this means we do t reject his word it’s the judgements of God forever that’s why it saved bekievers

When we face God this day

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

his judgements are going to be the gospel and the judgements he made and taught to his disciples then told them to go preach to everyone those are Gods final judgements for mankind

Its why it’s so final and decides everything for ll creatires of God

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

because the gospel is Gods eternal words of salvation they are what promises everlasting life jesus words have to be accepted also they can save sinners

 

[Mem]

Are you a Jehovah’s Witness?

This is why I think there is real danger in making 1:1 comparisons between spiritual concepts and physical processes. Jesus being declared to be the only begotten Son of God is not referring to his coming into existence but his status as heir. There are plenty of verses that speak of Jesus’ eternal nature.

You lost me in your correlation of me to a Jehovah's Witness. Do they presume to be able to answer my question?

 

[helifore]

Can a once truly saved believer backslide too much and lose the gift of salvation? If so do they need to repent and ask for forgiveness through Christ again? Thoughts are welcome and scripture too!

the only way to lose your salvation is to Give it up you cannot lose it unintentionally and there is no chance to be forgiven again because JESUS cannot go back on the cross again

 

[homwardbound]

I just wanted to say thanks for that post, seeing Romans 8:15-16, God is the one that knows who each person is and will be and will not be, even if say they are or are not.
Contentment brought back to me, thank you again

 

[homwardbound]

Your argument is that before the cross Jesus said one thing and after it’s not true ?

Sorry you do not understand what is given freely to be able to do over fighting to do it in God's Spirit and Truth

 

[Chaps]

You lost me in your correlation of me to a Jehovah's Witness. Do they presume to be able to answer my question?

Well, Mormons and JWs would both claim to answer that question. JW’s deny the divinity of Christ and thus believe he was begotten in a literal sense. Mormons are not monotheists so they would also lessen the divinity of Christ in this case. I’ve found that most people who dwell on Christ being “begotten” and “ spiritual first fruits” concepts usually do so to undermine the divinity of Christ and are part of a cult of some sort.

Anyway, I thought I answered the question.

 

[Chaps]

the only way to lose your salvation is to Give it up you cannot lose it unintentionally and there is no chance to be forgiven again because JESUS cannot go back on the cross again

I think this is a both/and type of situation. I understand what you are saying, that someone cannot accidentally sin one too many times and lose their salvation, etc. However, I do think most people lose their salvation unintentionally. I dont think a passionate believer just wakes up one day and decides to reject the Gospel. Usually, it involves a slow, gradual drifting from the truth.

Hebrews 2:1 (ESV): 2 Therefore we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away from it.

Like the Hebrews in the desert, compromise and grumbling begins to slowly take hold. Lack of satisfaction with God’s love and daily provision becomes more pronounced. They begin to excuse sinful behaviors, later to indulge in them. To sooth their consciences, they distance themselves from other believers and begin not coming into the light lest their deeds be exposed. Eventually, their heart becomes so hardened that they reject Christ outright and embrace one lie or another.

So I agree, that ultimately someone‘s salvation is not loss by accident or a period of backsliding. However, I do think Scripture teaches that this process begins with “drifting” or “wandering“ which does not begin intentionally, but generally ends with outright rebellion. IMO, anyway.

 

[HeIsHere]

Thanks for responding. I understand you have your convictions and that is fine. We will likely just agree to disagree. Let me just respond to two points you made:

While certainly there are some spiritual things that are reflected in physical things, but I think it is overreaching to draw such doctrinal conclusions based on these supposed comparisons. Especially when Scripture explicitly teaches the contrary. Moreover, there are many spiritual things that are not like physical things. Jesus said the angels are not like humans in that they are not married and given in marriage. Proverbs says there is a way that seems right to a man but the end of it is death and our ways are not God’s ways. Paul says that God uses foolishness to confound the wise and the weak things of the world to shame the strong. The poor in spirit are blessed and the meek inherit the earth. Death is the path to life and you must lose your life to find it. Of the heavenly kingdom we do not say, “here it is“ or “there it is” for the Kingdom of God is within you. So while there may be many spiritual things that can be illustrated by physical realities, there are also spiritual realities that are the exact opposite of physical ones. And again, I think Jesus makes this point specifically referring to spiritual birth. Nicodemus’ effort to compare spiritual birth to physical birth is seen to reveal a lack of spiritual maturity on Nicodemus’ part, according to Jesus. “You are a teacher of the Law and you do not understand these things” he replies.

I agree with you that there is a particular love God has for His Church and His children. However, as I stated before, that love is not because of some status we have attained. That love is based on who we identify with. When we are “in Christ“ we are seen by virtue of Christ’s righteousness. However, if a person rejects Christ, goes back to animal sacrifice (in the case of the warnings of Hebrews), or rejects the Gospel they had once accepted…God will not force them to be “in Christ” if they turn away from him. So, this is not a matter of God’s love faltering, but the individual rejecting that love. I dont know about you, but I have known many, passionate, knowledgeable and sold out believers who later in life turned from the faith and embraced Buddhism, Atheism, Paganism or various other beliefs while rejecting Jesus and his message. The idea that these people were never really believers or they wouldn’t have done that I think is too convenient an answer and casts more uncertainty and doubt on the status of a persons salvation at any given moment than the view I am proposing. After all, I’d feel a lot more insecure if I had to somehow parse out what “saving faith” looked like in a person’s life than someone who didnt. What if my faith wasn’t actually “saving faith?” And biblically, we never see such a thing as faith that doesn’t save. You either have faith or you don‘t. And someone who was a passionate, bible-believing person who lived for Jesus and later walks away is simply someone who did not endure in their belief. It wasn’t the quality or source of their faith, it was the lack of persistence in faith. At least that is the only way the Bible describes it as far as I can tell.

So if the defendant accepts the gift of the "debt paid in full" by a third party, the defendant needs to keep believing in the act in order for it to continue to be efficacious?

 

[HeIsHere]

the only way to lose your salvation is to Give it up you cannot lose it unintentionally and there is no chance to be forgiven again because JESUS cannot go back on the cross again

Christ Jesus does not need to back to the cross that is entire point of the letters written to the Hebrews.

 

[Chaps]

So if the defendant accepts the gift of the "debt paid in full" by a third party, the defendant needs to keep believing in the act in order for it to continue to be efficacious?

Matthew 18:32–35 (ESV): Then his master summoned him and said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 And should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you?’ 34 And in anger his master delivered him to the jailers, until he should pay all his debt. 35 So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.”

It would seem that is what Jesus and scripture indicate.

 

[HeIsHere]

It would seem that is what Jesus and scripture indicate.

You assume this scripture is about salvation.

Jesus is putting the law in its proper context with regards to the new coming covenant, quite often Jesus is convicting people’s hearts especially those who are self-righteous, you will notice to the humble He shows his grace, for those who thought the law was doable He would say, "but there is one thing you lack!”

 

[Chaps]

You assume this scripture is about salvation.

Jesus is putting the law in its proper context with regards to the new coming covenant, quite often Jesus is convicting people’s hearts especially those who are self-righteous, you will notice to the humble He shows his grace, for those who thought the law was doable He would say, "but there is one thing you lack!”

The scripture is about God’s forgiveness. There is no salvation without forgiveness. There is no forgiveness without mercy. Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.

I believe Jesus means what he says and is not being hyperbolic or referring to the old covenant. He is speaking to his followers about how God will treat them at judgment. We are not saved by works, but our works display what we really believe. I think James makes this point very clear.

James 2:12–13 (ESV): So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty. 13 For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

 

[BillyBob]

I agree with you that there is a particular love God has for His Church and His children. However, as I stated before, that love is not because of some status we have attained. That love is based on who we identify with. When we are “in Christ“ we are seen by virtue of Christ’s righteousness.

You are correct “that love is not because of some status we have attained”! Scripture tells us that He loved us even before we were born. Not all, but some! There was nothing in us which caused Him to love us, but we were chosen for some reason that we will never be able to understand.
To think that we could for any reason be lost, would make God a total failure.
To think that the creature could somehow oppose the creator would be to elevate ourselves....
Christ will lose none of those chosen ones.

 

[MerSee]

You are correct “that love is not because of some status we have attained”! Scripture tells us that He loved us even before we were born. Not all, but some! There was nothing in us which caused Him to love us, but we were chosen for some reason that we will never be able to understand.
To think that we could for any reason be lost, would make God a total failure.
To think that the creature could somehow oppose the creator would be to elevate ourselves....
Christ will lose none of those chosen ones.

Only the elect are ever born-again.

 

[Mem]

Well, Mormons and JWs would both claim to answer that question. JW’s deny the divinity of Christ and thus believe he was begotten in a literal sense. Mormons are not monotheists so they would also lessen the divinity of Christ in this case. I’ve found that most people who dwell on Christ being “begotten” and “ spiritual first fruits” concepts usually do so to undermine the divinity of Christ and are part of a cult of some sort.

Anyway, I thought I answered the question.

Dwell on? So, you think I live on a particular subject just because I'm currently considering the implications of biblical meanings? sheesh. Anyway, Tanks for the answer, which was something like, "don't even think about it." Right?
That only causes me to wonder why you wouldn't want me to even mention it... is it a wrench fallen into the cogs? hmm

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Dwell on? So, you think I live on a particular subject just because I'm currently considering the implications of biblical meanings? sheesh. Anyway, Tanks for the answer, which was something like, "don't even think about it." Right?
That only causes me to wonder why you wouldn't want me to even mention it... is it a wrench fallen into the cogs? hmm

I think "only begotten" refers to Jesus becoming a human being. He was not created, but created everything. He did not come into being because He always existed. But He did become a man, and He was not always a man. I wonder if having this point of view makes people think I'm heretical since some believe He was always the Son of our Heavenly Father.