Loss of salvation???

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Mem

Mem

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Sep 23, 2014
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...Or should we look at the statement in question as an example in the use of a rhetorical device which illustrates that it is impossible for sharks to ever have any problems with swallowing meter long fish?
 
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PaulThomson

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Oct 29, 2023
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Mem said:
How does the difference apply to us? I mean, how do we become sharks in order to swallow a meter long fish?
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We cannot become sharks, so we cannot swallow a one metre long fish. And we cannot become God with the wisdom and reach to manoeuvre the willful reprobate into a set of circumstances where the true state of his heart is plain to him and he falls upon the Rock for mercy.
But just because we in the Hebrews authors classroom cannot bring a wilful reprobate among us to repentance does not mean that no one can. And therefore, "It is impossible (for us) to bring that one to repentance", does not mean "It is impossible for that one to be brought to repentance (by God).
 
Mem

Mem

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Sep 23, 2014
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PaulThomson said:
We cannot become sharks, so we cannot swallow a one metre long fish. And we cannot become God with the wisdom and reach to manoeuvre the willful reprobate into a set of circumstances where the true state of his heart is plain to him and he falls upon the Rock for mercy.
But just because we in the Hebrews authors classroom cannot bring a wilful reprobate among us to repentance does not mean that no one can. And therefore, "It is impossible (for us) to bring that one to repentance", does not mean "It is impossible for that one to be brought to repentance (by God).
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I do like to think that there will always be hope as long as God lives, even for the 'worst' of us. If I think through the implications of each position, it seems the 'able to lose' has more hope if, indeed, they're never really 'lost' (that is, God always knows where we are even if He asks, "Mem, where are you?" On the other hand, what hope is there for the 'never saved to begin with' position? Just none, even as God lives.
 
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Sipsey

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Sep 27, 2018
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GWH said:
No, it is because your reply in this post/reply does not explain how there is a meaningful difference.
With either wording, the apostate will burn.
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If God knows the beginning from the end (and He does), why on earth would He save someone to begin with that He knows will ultimately reject that salvation?
 
Musicmaster

Musicmaster

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Genez said:
You're not thinking with the context. If Peter taught eternal security to Jews? It would not apply to Gentile believers as well?
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The flawed reasoning in that statement is rooted in a failure to rightly divide the word of truth. You spoke nothing for me to demonstrate anything against. Israel is not Gentiles and Gentiles are not Israel. Trying to harmonize the two gospels always ends up in this confusion of yours.

MM
 
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Kroogz

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Dec 5, 2023
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Musicmaster said:
The flawed reasoning in that statement is rooted in a failure to rightly divide the word of truth. You spoke nothing for me to demonstrate anything against. Israel is not Gentiles and Gentiles are not Israel. Trying to harmonize the two gospels always ends up in this confusion of yours.

MM
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Maybe I missed it?

What do you mean by the two gospels? I see ONE Gospel, but two distinct future realities for Israel and the Church.

Because it sure seems that you are preaching different ways to salvation and not differing ROLES after salvation.
 
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PaulThomson

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gratefuloneson said:
Can a once truly saved believer backslide too much and lose the gift of salvation? If so do they need to repent and ask for forgiveness through Christ again? Thoughts are welcome and scripture too!
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Probably. A person can be saved from any other danger and end up back in the same danger again.

If one imagines "saved/salvation" as being a permanent stamp place upon someone that grants them permanent immunity from loss, then by definition, you cannot lose your salvation, otherwise there would be no immunity.

However, does the Bible describe salvation/saved in terms of immunity from loss? it does not appear to do so IMO. So I would be reluctant to assume salvation/saved implies permanent immunity from loss. The Holy Spirit is given as a downpayment on the eventual redemption of the body "until the day of redemption.
So, that downpayment seems to have an expiry date, and not to be universally permanent. We have the Holy Spirit, and we have His assistance to prepare ourselves as a bride for the wedding day, but if we do not cooperate with the Holy Spirit in His efforts to prepare us for the first resurrection, He may just move out on the wedding day before the wedding, and we may find ourselves standing alone at the altar of our idol, while others are meeting the Bridegroom in the air.
 
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