Loss of salvation???
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- you personally have sinned in front of everyone here, refuse to confess it, and refuse to repent.
- you claim H2O baptism is the only thing that removes sin
- presuming you have been baptized, at some point in the past, what can remove the sin you are in right now, today?
- did your baptism remove all sin past present and future?
- then how could salvation possibly be lost?
- did your baptism only remove sins from the past before the moment in time you were held underwater?
- then how can you possibly be saved now?
According to you, who are you?
I don't claim it, JESUS DOES.
1 John 8-10
You should know that answer.
1 John 8-10
I ask you as Paul asked HAVE YOU RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST since YOU HAVE BELIEVED?
Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
I don't claim it, JESUS DOES.
1 John 8-10
You should know that answer.
1 John 8-10
I ask you as Paul asked HAVE YOU RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST since YOU HAVE BELIEVED?
Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
no, you didn't.
you haven't confessed your sin against me, you haven't repented of it, and you haven't answered any of my questions.
you haven't confessed your sin against me, you haven't repented of it, and you haven't answered any of my questions.
- you personally have sinned in front of everyone here, refuse to confess it, and refuse to repent.
- you claim H2O baptism is the only thing that removes sin
- presuming you have been baptized, at some point in the past, what can remove the sin you are in right now, today?
- did your baptism remove all sin past present and future?
- then how could salvation possibly be lost?
- did your baptism only remove sins from the past before the moment in time you were held underwater
- then how can you possibly be saved now?
Yes I did, now answer mine ONE QUESTION.
you personally have sinned in front of everyone here, refuse to confess it, and refuse to repent.
According to you, who are you?
you claim H2O baptism is the only thing that removes sin
I don't claim it, JESUS DOES.
presuming you have been baptized, at some point in the past, what can remove the sin you are in right now, today?
1 John 8-10
did your baptism remove all sin past present and future?
then how could salvation possibly be lost?
You should know that answer.
did your baptism only remove sins from the past before the moment in time you were held underwater
then how can you possibly be saved now?
1 John 8-10
I ask you as Paul asked HAVE YOU RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST since YOU HAVE BELIEVED?
Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
you personally have sinned in front of everyone here, refuse to confess it, and refuse to repent.
According to you, who are you?
you claim H2O baptism is the only thing that removes sin
I don't claim it, JESUS DOES.
presuming you have been baptized, at some point in the past, what can remove the sin you are in right now, today?
1 John 8-10
did your baptism remove all sin past present and future?
then how could salvation possibly be lost?
You should know that answer.
did your baptism only remove sins from the past before the moment in time you were held underwater
then how can you possibly be saved now?
1 John 8-10
I ask you as Paul asked HAVE YOU RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST since YOU HAVE BELIEVED?
Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
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of course i do.
but i saw, you contradict the answer scripture gives.
i am naturally trying to get to why - because the thread topic is actually not indoctrination into a hyoer-pentecoatal cult, it's the permenance or impermanence of salvation: the surety or doubt of the promises of God, His faithfulness or unfaithfulness.
it may hurt a little, ha
so let's look at 1 John 1:9 -
no baptism involved here, correct?
God is faithful to remove our sin on the basis of confession, not on H2O immersion, correct?
God Himself does it here, not the rite of baptism, correct?
but i saw, you contradict the answer scripture gives.
i am naturally trying to get to why - because the thread topic is actually not indoctrination into a hyoer-pentecoatal cult, it's the permenance or impermanence of salvation: the surety or doubt of the promises of God, His faithfulness or unfaithfulness.
it may hurt a little, ha
so let's look at 1 John 1:9 -
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
no baptism involved here, correct?
God is faithful to remove our sin on the basis of confession, not on H2O immersion, correct?
God Himself does it here, not the rite of baptism, correct?
no; Jesus does not claim that. see 1 John 1:9 for example: sin removed upon confession of it.
moreover, what is the baptism of David?
moreover, what is the baptism of David?
2 Samuel 12:13
So David said to Nathan,
"I have sinned against the LORD."
And Nathan said to David,
"The LORD also has put away your sin; you shall not die."
David was not water baptized. but the LORD - - this same Jesus - - removed his sin when he confessed it. no, He certainly does not.
for a third witness to you:
good discussion here about Biblical basis for only God ((not H2O)) can forgive sin - - *link*
for a third witness to you:
Luke 5:20
When He saw their faith, He said to him,
"Man, your sins are forgiven you."
please note there is not even confession of sin here, just faith. good discussion here about Biblical basis for only God ((not H2O)) can forgive sin - - *link*
Why should I? Foreign languages were for unbelieving Jews. It's why Paul quoted Isaiah 28.
1Cor.14:20-22
20 Brothers and sisters, do not be children in your thinking. Instead, be infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature. 21 It is written in the law: “By people with strange tongues and by the lips of strangers I will speak to this people, yet not even in this way will they listen to me,” says the Lord. 22 So then, tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers.
That gift is no longer needed. The Lord gave Israel time to repent, they refused and instead rejected their Messiah and in 70AD the Temple was destroyed signifying the end of Israel being able to make the proper sacrifices and keep the Law as they were commanded.
btw. I didn't prophesy either.
Mark 16:9-20 is disputed as being authentic so I wouldn't count on that.
Exactly what I said. The risen Christ appeared to me, similar to how He appeared to Paul only without the blinding light.
You think that's all you do but you quote scripture and give your opinion as to what it means. You think being baptized in Jesus name must mean being dunked in water. You can't/won't see it means to be baptized into His person. We are hid in Christ. A supernatural event requires a supernatural means ie. with the Holy Spirit. His name is not water. His name is His person, His character, His work.
Colossians 3:3
for you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
Yes but making mistakes is not the problem, refusing to be corrected is. By your own admission, you have not read anything I wrote that disagreed with your position. That is a complete waste of my time and disrespectful. If you are not going to actually engage in discourse, then don't post. Communication is a two way street.
ps. at least your admission explains why you think I never answered your questions.
1Cor.14:20-22
20 Brothers and sisters, do not be children in your thinking. Instead, be infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature. 21 It is written in the law: “By people with strange tongues and by the lips of strangers I will speak to this people, yet not even in this way will they listen to me,” says the Lord. 22 So then, tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers.
That gift is no longer needed. The Lord gave Israel time to repent, they refused and instead rejected their Messiah and in 70AD the Temple was destroyed signifying the end of Israel being able to make the proper sacrifices and keep the Law as they were commanded.
btw. I didn't prophesy either.
Mark 16:9-20 is disputed as being authentic so I wouldn't count on that.
Exactly what I said. The risen Christ appeared to me, similar to how He appeared to Paul only without the blinding light.
You think that's all you do but you quote scripture and give your opinion as to what it means. You think being baptized in Jesus name must mean being dunked in water. You can't/won't see it means to be baptized into His person. We are hid in Christ. A supernatural event requires a supernatural means ie. with the Holy Spirit. His name is not water. His name is His person, His character, His work.
Colossians 3:3
for you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
Yes but making mistakes is not the problem, refusing to be corrected is. By your own admission, you have not read anything I wrote that disagreed with your position. That is a complete waste of my time and disrespectful. If you are not going to actually engage in discourse, then don't post. Communication is a two way street.
ps. at least your admission explains why you think I never answered your questions.
No He doesn't, you think He does but it has been explained His name is not water, He does not baptize with water.
Mark 1:8
I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”
Water cannot wash away your sin, it cannot place you in Christ, it cannot regenerate you, it cannot give you a spiritual gift, it cannot fill you, it cannot seal you for the day of redemption only Christ can do this and He does this with the Holy Spirit. The promise of the Father based on the work of the Lord Jesus Christ empowered by the Holy Spirit.
Mark 1:8
I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”
Water cannot wash away your sin, it cannot place you in Christ, it cannot regenerate you, it cannot give you a spiritual gift, it cannot fill you, it cannot seal you for the day of redemption only Christ can do this and He does this with the Holy Spirit. The promise of the Father based on the work of the Lord Jesus Christ empowered by the Holy Spirit.
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Do what, you have been filled with the Holy Ghost like in Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Sorry, I really through you would.
How to get rid of sins.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
How to get rid of sins AFTER YOUR REBORN.
1 John 1:8-10
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
David OT. Do you know what they did to get rid of there sins? Nothing to do with NT rebirth.
Luke, when JESUS was on this earth he forgave sins...
He's not here anymore but left us HIS disciles and a rule book how to be saved.
How to be saved?
The FIRST message preached in Jersulam that JESUS promised to be preached.
Acts 2,
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
They were humble and the message pricked their hearth, we have to be humble.
Being baptized in JESUS name get rid of our sins, but does not save you. One still needs to repent and needs JESUS to fill them with the Holy Ghost.
Sorry, I really through you would.
How to get rid of sins.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
How to get rid of sins AFTER YOUR REBORN.
1 John 1:8-10
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
David OT. Do you know what they did to get rid of there sins? Nothing to do with NT rebirth.
Luke, when JESUS was on this earth he forgave sins...
He's not here anymore but left us HIS disciles and a rule book how to be saved.
How to be saved?
The FIRST message preached in Jersulam that JESUS promised to be preached.
Acts 2,
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
They were humble and the message pricked their hearth, we have to be humble.
Being baptized in JESUS name get rid of our sins, but does not save you. One still needs to repent and needs JESUS to fill them with the Holy Ghost.
I gave you respect and answered all of you questions the best I could.
To move forward reply to the questions I asked you.
Be GREAT if you used HIS WORD.
"That is not getting rid of your sin,"
1. JESUS is the word, why would you say he's lying to us?
"that is what the Lord does to you in order to fulfill His promise to you as a believer"
2. Your saying he forgives our sin because he promised to do so? Or he baptize us which forgives our sins?
"We are baptized into Him"
3. How do we get baptized into him?
'His name is His person"
4. ??????????
"Then I suggest you look further than just two verses so you can put the whole rationale of God into perspective. Try looking at the one below as well as Acts 11:16 and how the apostles continued in a tradition until Peter woke up"
ARE you saying that being baptized is a tradition? Until he woke up? Are you saying Peter was not in his right mind?
In Acts 11 Peter went to his fellow Jews and had some explaining to do WHY HE WENT TO THE GENTILES!! Acts 11,
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
HE (in Acts 10) WENT TO SHOW THEM HOW TO BE SAVED!! What happened? SAME THING AS ACTS 2:38-41 they RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST FIRST THEN HE COMMANED THEM TO BE BAPTIZED!!!
So how is that tradition when Peter gave the same message???
5. DID that clear that misconception up?
Being baptized with water was for Israel to identify with the coming Messiah John preached. Being baptized with the Holy Spirit is for the Church so that we are made to be in Christ, a supernatural event requiring a supernatural mode. Water cannot place you in Christ. Please start thinking beyond your nose.
6. Back this up with HIS word.
Ephesians 4:5
one Lord, one faith, one baptism.
How many baptisms? To which baptism is Paul referring?
One Lord, there goes the concept of three gods, the father the son and the Holy Ghost there is ONE LORD HIS NAME IS JESUS.
One faith, THERE GOES YOUR CONCEPT OF DIFFERENT MESSAGES FOR DIFFERENT PEOPLE.
One baptism, Paul is referring to WATER HE knows that it is how we get rid of our sins read Romans 6. Look at Acts 19? Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE YOU HAVE BELIEVED he asked? They said never heard of it, he said HOW WERE YOU BAPTIZED??????
They were BAPTIZED IN JESUS name and Paul laid hands on them and GUESS WHAT HAPPENED???
YEP, THEY 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
7. Did that clear that up?
To move forward reply to the questions I asked you.
Be GREAT if you used HIS WORD.
"That is not getting rid of your sin,"
1. JESUS is the word, why would you say he's lying to us?
"that is what the Lord does to you in order to fulfill His promise to you as a believer"
2. Your saying he forgives our sin because he promised to do so? Or he baptize us which forgives our sins?
"We are baptized into Him"
3. How do we get baptized into him?
'His name is His person"
4. ??????????
"Then I suggest you look further than just two verses so you can put the whole rationale of God into perspective. Try looking at the one below as well as Acts 11:16 and how the apostles continued in a tradition until Peter woke up"
ARE you saying that being baptized is a tradition? Until he woke up? Are you saying Peter was not in his right mind?
In Acts 11 Peter went to his fellow Jews and had some explaining to do WHY HE WENT TO THE GENTILES!! Acts 11,
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
HE (in Acts 10) WENT TO SHOW THEM HOW TO BE SAVED!! What happened? SAME THING AS ACTS 2:38-41 they RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST FIRST THEN HE COMMANED THEM TO BE BAPTIZED!!!
So how is that tradition when Peter gave the same message???
5. DID that clear that misconception up?
Being baptized with water was for Israel to identify with the coming Messiah John preached. Being baptized with the Holy Spirit is for the Church so that we are made to be in Christ, a supernatural event requiring a supernatural mode. Water cannot place you in Christ. Please start thinking beyond your nose.
6. Back this up with HIS word.
Ephesians 4:5
one Lord, one faith, one baptism.
How many baptisms? To which baptism is Paul referring?
One Lord, there goes the concept of three gods, the father the son and the Holy Ghost there is ONE LORD HIS NAME IS JESUS.
One faith, THERE GOES YOUR CONCEPT OF DIFFERENT MESSAGES FOR DIFFERENT PEOPLE.
One baptism, Paul is referring to WATER HE knows that it is how we get rid of our sins read Romans 6. Look at Acts 19? Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE YOU HAVE BELIEVED he asked? They said never heard of it, he said HOW WERE YOU BAPTIZED??????
They were BAPTIZED IN JESUS name and Paul laid hands on them and GUESS WHAT HAPPENED???
YEP, THEY 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
7. Did that clear that up?
According to your own admission you didn't read what I wrote the moment I disagreed with you so if you think that is respectful then you and I have a very different understanding of being respectful.
Go back and read what you admitted you did not read and you will find I have explained the verses you have quoted a number of times. I will not repeat myself any more.
Have a good one.
Go back and read what you admitted you did not read and you will find I have explained the verses you have quoted a number of times. I will not repeat myself any more.
Have a good one.
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John 5:39
the OT is the testimony of Jesus Christ. David confessed His sin, and his sin was removed - directly connected to 1 John 1:9 - the LORD forgives sin and removes iniquity when it is confessed.
two witnesses are sufficient tho i could give a thousand: you are quite wrong, contradicting scripture, when you say water baptism is the only way sin is forgiven.
sin is forgiven by The lord God, our Christ, at His word. by Him and Him only - - as demonstrated also clearly in Mark 2.
Hebrews 6:1-2 - - - you ought to stop drinking milk and become mature, laying aside the elementary things of the faith like baptisms ((Hebrews 6:2)), but you don't seem to have grown your teeth yet - you say "ouch" when your brothers and sisters offer you real food ((John 6:55)), your jaw aching from the hard work of chewing.
but because you insist on porridge,
seeing that we have so many witnesses of the LORD God forgiving and removing sin on the basis of nothing more than faith in Him and confession, what is this physical baptism into Him through water Peter speaks of, to people who have already believed in their heart and now wish to confess with their mouths?
let Peter tell us:
for what does Paul also say? whoever believes in their heart ((non physical)) and confesses with their mouth ((physical signification of the faith that has already been accomplished in the non-physical heart)) is saved, their sins removed.
what then is this baptism that Peter says is an outward symbol of the inward faith? it is confession of that faith - - faith being the thing God rewards with removal of sin. yes God - because it is Jesus Christ Who is the object of our faith.
the OT is the testimony of Jesus Christ. David confessed His sin, and his sin was removed - directly connected to 1 John 1:9 - the LORD forgives sin and removes iniquity when it is confessed.
two witnesses are sufficient tho i could give a thousand: you are quite wrong, contradicting scripture, when you say water baptism is the only way sin is forgiven.
sin is forgiven by The lord God, our Christ, at His word. by Him and Him only - - as demonstrated also clearly in Mark 2.
Hebrews 6:1-2 - - - you ought to stop drinking milk and become mature, laying aside the elementary things of the faith like baptisms ((Hebrews 6:2)), but you don't seem to have grown your teeth yet - you say "ouch" when your brothers and sisters offer you real food ((John 6:55)), your jaw aching from the hard work of chewing.
but because you insist on porridge,
seeing that we have so many witnesses of the LORD God forgiving and removing sin on the basis of nothing more than faith in Him and confession, what is this physical baptism into Him through water Peter speaks of, to people who have already believed in their heart and now wish to confess with their mouths?
let Peter tell us:
1 Peter 3:21-22
There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.
it is not the removal of filth from the flesh which foegives sin ((the physical act of submitting to baptism)) but the answer of the conscience toward God ((the non-physical substance of faith)) for what does Paul also say? whoever believes in their heart ((non physical)) and confesses with their mouth ((physical signification of the faith that has already been accomplished in the non-physical heart)) is saved, their sins removed.
what then is this baptism that Peter says is an outward symbol of the inward faith? it is confession of that faith - - faith being the thing God rewards with removal of sin. yes God - because it is Jesus Christ Who is the object of our faith.
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