Loss of salvation???

[Musicmaster]

It's such a blessing that the Lord left to each one of us the choice for seeking Him for salvation rather than it being predetermined by Him in the place of us making that choice. That some totally miss this fact in order to retain their love for the TULIP doctrine, thus making God out to be a moral monster on the basis of "sovereignty," that fallacy is self defeating. Sovereignty can never justify any measure of moral corruption hidden behind the concept of Sovereignty. God Himself is not totally "sovereign" in every respect. Even the Lord declared that He cannot lie, so the TULIP doctri e falls flat on its face not only in relation to scripture, but also in relation to we whom He has saved. Even we recognize moral corruption, and for some to claim the Lord punishes anyone for a choice they were not responsible, that's just folly of the worst sort.

It's scripturally reasonable to say that if the Lord actually did predetermined for each one as to if they would seek Him for salvation and who would not, those not empowered to call upon Him for salvation would NOT find themselves on the brunt end of punishment in Hell.

MM

 

[Suze]

It's such a blessing that the Lord left to each one of us the choice for seeking Him for salvation rather than it being predetermined by Him in the place of us making that choice. That some totally miss this fact in order to retain their love for the TULIP doctrine, thus making God out to be a moral monster on the basis of "sovereignty," that fallacy is self defeating. Sovereignty can never justify any measure of moral corruption hidden behind the concept of Sovereignty. God Himself is not totally "sovereign" in every respect. Even the Lord declared that He cannot lie, so the TULIP doctri e falls flat on its face not only in relation to scripture, but also in relation to we whom He has saved. Even we recognize moral corruption, and for some to claim the Lord punishes anyone for a choice they were not responsible, that's just folly of the worst sort.

It's scripturally reasonable to say that if the Lord actually did predetermined for each one as to if they would seek Him for salvation and who would not, those not empowered to call upon Him for salvation would NOT find themselves on the brunt end of punishment in Hell.

MM

I understand your point totally . Thank you for putting it so politely . My beliefs r a bit different to most others on here so I don't have a problem with predestination etc , I shan't say more than that it I might get into trouble . Don't want to offend anyone .

 

[Musicmaster]

I understand your point totally . Thank you for putting it so politely . My beliefs r a bit different to most others on here so I don't have a problem with predestination etc , I shan't say more than that it I might get into trouble . Don't want to offend anyone .

It has been my experience that the extreme of the TULIP model is easily dispatched when we take into consideration the contexts of the verses used in defense of that doctrine.

MM

 

[Suze]

It has been my experience that the extreme of the TULIP model is easily dispatched when we take into consideration the contexts of the verses used in defense of that doctrine.

MM

I'm so sorry I don't know what TULIP is

 

[Jordon]

If you cannot understand why calling another member
"you stupid ass crapy ass low life scumbag ." on a Christian website is offensive, I'm CERTAIN I won't be able to explain it to you.

well I don't hold you accountable for his actions sir and you shouldn't hold me either, as it's a dangerous game to play to take on someone else's mindset.

My mum who I lost not so long ago, got psychologically abused by people with his exact same attitude.

Anyway your right, its now how I would like to resort to saying these of things and I wished i never, have a nice day sir.

I don't wish to continue in cursing anymore.

Unfortunately having been on the recieving end of being cursed here for 14 days straight. well it finally got the better of me , which was being told I was going hell everyday, I decided the only thing to do was to not engage in the thread of free will anymore, because the comments I received by the exact same attitude being shown here and other other people received was really quite disturbing.

So what I will be doing from this moment on seeing as I'm now the number 1 villain here for sticking up for Christians who are being psychologically abused is not bother coming to chat here no more

I do apologize for my comments offending you.

 

[Musicmaster]

I'm so sorry I don't know what TULIP is

It's a worthwhile study to see what some believe these days and has become more fashionable to believe in many churchianity circles.

MM

 

[Jordon]

@Suze

Tulip
T
either seen as totally depraved but should also be seen
as no one is worthy not one

U

Unconditional election should only be seen as God will try to change your nature, as a child growing up. And that includes every single child on the face of the earth. Also it includes when children start to hate, God will still loves them and care for them

L
Limited atonement seen as when people have been Sent to hell there sins where never atoned for. They did not listen to God. But should also be seen as

God the father has a eunique experience with all children before handing them over to son, first come the Jew then the gentile so to speak.

I

Irresistible grace

Seen as. as God tries to change your nature people will love him more,


P

Seen as once your saved your preserved in Faith. You can't be lost.

Tulips intimate goal by the saints, to help people understand God's sovereign will.


That no one can save themselves and all need saving.


Bye

 

[Suze]

@Suze

Tulip
T
either seen as totally depraved but should also be seen
as no one is worthy not one

U

Unconditional election should only be seen as God will try to change your nature, as a child growing up. And that includes every single child on the face of the earth. Also it includes when children start to hate, God will still loves them and care for them

L
Limited atonement seen as when people have been Sent to hell there sins where never atoned for. They did not listen to God. But should also be seen as

God the father has a eunique experience with all children before handing them over to son, first come the Jew then the gentile so to speak.

I

Irresistible grace

Seen as. as God tries to change your nature people will love him more,


P

Seen as once your saved your preserved in Faith. You can't be lost.

Tulips intimate goal by the saints, to help people understand God's sovereign will.


That no one can save themselves and all need saving.


Bye

Thank you for that

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

@Suze

Tulip
T
either seen as totally depraved but should also be seen
as no one is worthy not one

U

Unconditional election should only be seen as God will try to change your nature, as a child growing up. And that includes every single child on the face of the earth. Also it includes when children start to hate, God will still loves them and care for them

L
Limited atonement seen as when people have been Sent to hell there sins where never atoned for. They did not listen to God. But should also be seen as

God the father has a eunique experience with all children before handing them over to son, first come the Jew then the gentile so to speak.

I

Irresistible grace

Seen as. as God tries to change your nature people will love him more,


P

Seen as once your saved your preserved in Faith. You can't be lost.

Tulips intimate goal by the saints, to help people understand God's sovereign will.


That no one can save themselves and all need saving.


Bye

If you're saved because God picked you, I don't see much evidence of it. Your TULIP is not working. You're not reflecting Him AT ALL.

1 John 2:5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

1 John 2:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

If God has supposedly overpowered you and forced you to get saved, you have NO EXCUSE for such language and lack of self-control.

 

[DavidLamb]

David

Since when should a person be made responsible for religious racist behaviour from somebody else religious racist behaviour

My sole purpose in this thread when I first posted was to reasure people they don't have to be worried about losing there salvation.

If you love God your his., and if God knows you love him before you where born, what difference does it make whether you love him or not after your born,

Now for some bizarre unknown reason people here decided to label me a Calvinist preaching tulip then go berserk on me

Then decided to speak ill of a dead person John Calvin

Then proceeded to call people trol and cowards for not engaging with him

The same person then asked to make account for his actions has not made any account other than to defend his actions.

Well David do you think it should be me that should be the one to be made to give account for my actions ?

On top of this David so far I've had deal with many other people who won't give account for there actions. Here with the same religious racist behaviour

I assure you that I am not racist, that I do believe the doctrines known as "Calvinism", and do not speak ill of John Calvin. I have never called you a troll or a coward. I repeat that my only point was you using rudeness to address fellow posters, calling them scumbags, etc. From now on I will leave it up to the forum moderators.

 

[Suze]

If you're saved because God picked you, I don't see much evidence of it. Your TULIP is not working. You're not reflecting Him AT ALL.

1 John 2:5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

1 John 2:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

If God has supposedly overpowered you and forced you to get saved, you have NO EXCUSE for such language and lack of self-control.

So , that must mean that every person who has ever lived , apart from Jesus , is a child of the devil . To b perfect in this life , we have to control all of our words , all of our deeds and , all of our thoughts . Once we have managed that , we have to sell absolutely everything that we own and give all the money to the poor .
Christians still sin . Christ is our Advocate , our Mediator our Sinless High Priest in God's Heaven .
If u have read the Bible , u would know that there have been many ( imperfect ) mediators between God and man . Christ is the last , and the only perfect ( sinless ) one . He's all any of us need . R u perfect ? Do u never ever sin ? Because if u do , by your own logic that makes u not a Christian but a child of the devil .
With all due respect to u as a seeker of righteousness , u need to get back to your Bible and , read it all , cover to cover and when u have done that , do it again and again and again , for the rest of your life . May God bless your efforts and open your eyes and ears to His Eternal Truth .

 

[Suze]

If you're saved because God picked you, I don't see much evidence of it. Your TULIP is not working. You're not reflecting Him AT ALL.

1 John 2:5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

1 John 2:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

If God has supposedly overpowered you and forced you to get saved, you have NO EXCUSE for such language and lack of self-control.

Please forgive me ! I sent my reply to u instead of

If you're saved because God picked you, I don't see much evidence of it. Your TULIP is not working. You're not reflecting Him AT ALL.

1 John 2:5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

1 John 2:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

If God has supposedly overpowered you and forced you to get saved, you have NO EXCUSE for such language and lack of self-control.

Please forgive me ! I sent a reply to u but it should have gone to the TULIP person ! I'm so sorry

 

[Jordon]

Thank you for that

one more note because I ain't got much time

There is no such thing as a Calvinist or Calvinism

Any time you see a person using these terms, there is no such thing it isn't true. People who claim they are a calvinist are a bit loopy loo or deceived, and people who accuse of being a Calvinist are also a bit loopy loo or deceived.

So when you see a person using these terms and there convinced in there hearts, that you are a Calvinist preaching Calvinism, what your left is a person, who will not listen to reason, because mostly what I've noticed, after trying to reason with such people after many many days of exchanging many many views, and putting up with many disturbing comments, whilst taking there disturbing comments, and still responding in kindness, they then decide to still call you these names.

So then the only way is to walk away and move on.

As Jesus will reject the world for you.

One last thing the version of tulip which is only seen to be wrote by John Calvin, by these people who have developed this imaginary make believe Jacob Arminius character, who was against John Calvin by the looks of it, will tell you different, that tulip was only wrote by John Calvin, which is not accurate, anyway this version of tulip should be accredited to the great reformation and John Calvin, after long drawn out studies the main point of tulip really lead to understanding of tulip, in the way I wrote it to you, which is really the goal, but for a lot people sadly, they don't study tulip correctly, or all the other writing of John Calvin, and go with the crowd opinion that John Calvin was not a good minister.

So then what you left is people destroying grace with isms.

Then what your left is Christians being afraid to talk about truth and grace.

Then what your left is a great divide of the great reformation.

But ultimately at the end of the day God will take care of it.

So sorry I havent been completely accurate in writing out the five points of tulip as they are wrote, but as they are wrote, they lead to the understanding I showed you which is accurate.

So i showed tulip in the milk way.

Bye bye take care

 

[Suze]

one more note because I ain't got much time

There is no such thing as a Calvinist or Calvinism

Any time you see a person using these terms, there is no such thing it isn't true. People who claim they are a calvinist are a bit loopy loo or deceived, and people who accuse of being a Calvinist are also a bit loopy loo or deceived.

So when you see a person using these terms and there convinced in there hearts, that you are a Calvinist preaching Calvinism, what your left is a person, who will not listen to reason, because mostly what I've noticed, after trying to reason with such people after many many days of exchanging many many views, and putting up with many disturbing comments, whilst taking there disturbing comments, and still responding in kindness, they then decide to still call you these names.

So then the only way is to walk away and move on.

As Jesus will reject the world for you.

One last thing the version of tulip which is only seen to be wrote by John Calvin, by these people who have developed this imaginary make believe Jacob Arminius character, who was against John Calvin by the looks of it, will tell you different, that tulip was only wrote by John Calvin, which is not accurate, anyway this version of tulip should be accredited to the great reformation and John Calvin, after long drawn out studies the main point of tulip really lead to understanding of tulip, in the way I wrote it to you, which is really the goal, but for a lot people sadly, they don't study tulip correctly, or all the other writing of John Calvin, and go with the crowd opinion that John Calvin was not a good minister.

So then what you left is people destroying grace with isms.

Then what your left is Christians being afraid to talk about truth and grace.

Then what your left is a great divide of the great reformation.

But ultimately at the end of the day God will take care of it.

So sorry I havent been completely accurate in writing out the five points of tulip as they are wrote, but as they are wrote, they lead to the understanding I showed you which is accurate.

So i showed tulip in the milk way.

Bye bye take care

Thank you very helpful , God bless u .

 

[Jordon]

@Suze one more note before I go

Don't take this responsibility on for yourself.
As you can see from my last post that sometime a person has to over come many obstacles sometime, in order to get the message of grace across.
So it is my view that the great reformation did indeed believe people where worth it l, when writing out tulip. especially those finding it hard to, let's say forgive and to change or repent.

So with that said isms are not a good thing, basically when someone calls you an ism there cursing you to hell. Or calling you a devil.

So yep I guess it's something we have to understand that's is how some people feel about isms. Obviously theres people that might not take isms like that, and it's not important to call you an ism to them but then again, nobody is perfect I guess.

But the things these things can cause plagiarism amongst the community. And a person can become plagued in spirit. The devil like plagues to, so we have to forgive isms as well.

So it is my view really the the ism word should be banned really in anyone's mind really.

That's all I wanted to say really, thanks for the blessing I've just seen it.

Everyone involved in this drama, in this latest drama here God bless you also

 

[Suze]

Just

@Suze one more note before I go

Don't take this responsibility on for yourself.
As you can see from my last post that sometime a person has to over come many obstacles sometime, in order to get the message of grace across.
So it is my view that the great reformation did indeed believe people where worth it l, when writing out tulip. especially those finding it hard to, let's say forgive and to change or repent.

So with that said isms are not a good thing, basically when someone calls you an ism there cursing you to hell. Or calling you a devil.

So yep I guess it's something we have to understand that's is how some people feel about isms. Obviously theres people that might not take isms like that, and it's not important to call you an ism to them but then again, nobody is perfect I guess.

But the things these things can cause plagiarism amongst the community. And a person can become plagued in spirit. The devil like plagues to, so we have to forgive isms as well.

So it is my view really the the ism word should be banned really in anyone's mind really.

That's all I wanted to say really, thanks for the blessing I've just seen it.

Everyone involved in this drama, in this latest drama here God bless you also

Just noticed that u r in Wales I'm in North Yorkshire .

 

[Jordon]

Just
Just noticed that u r in Wales I'm in North Yorkshire .

Nice to meet you Suze, my brother is married to a Yorkshire lass,

Beautiful countryside always love driving there,

Ive been strengthening my spirit after suffering two weeks of oppression, I only began to realise the oppression was getting a hold on me after longer than i should of realized . So I've retreated and I've redeemed the oppression, well the lord has.

So I do believe the spiritual guidance I have received by the renewing of my mind, where once again the lord rejected the world for me, I believe I've had a strong indication that the main root of the problem here amongst the community, is the devil has plagued people's mind with isms.

So the best cause of action is to stop the devil in his tracks, and to ask people to not be played by isms, because isms will be a tactic used by him. and then ask people to ban that plague from there mind.

At all times.

 

[Jordon]

Seems the problem is more wide spread than I thought.

The problem is you do have a church called the The Armenian Apostolic Church.


It seems that these people are mostly responsible for creating these isms, such as Calvinism Calvinistic,.and then projecting those names onto people, it looks like they appeal mostly to human emotions to justify there cause,. for promoting religious freedom away from the leading churches,.using a free will tactic to grow there church.


I have found churches that like Calvin's writings, there is not actually a church that calls themselves a Calvinist church.

You have to wonder if free will going to a person head has caused themselves to promote these curses, and then project them onto to people, as it seems over 10 leading churches in the UK and USA are viewed as Calvinist churches,.when in reality they just agree with some of Calvin's writings

I havent found a church called Jacob Arminius church or a John Calvin church yet, not one. Or a Arminius church or a Calvinist church.

But I have found Armenian churches which preach free will. But Why they would call themselves apostles I do not know.

But I can only imagine it's got something to do with them thinking of themselves to highly as more than likely free will has gone to there heads.

It's a bit sad really, as they seem to be creating idles.

When I say idles there creating man to be worshiped more than God is the impression I get, from the Armenian followers, of there free will hate speeches, of many of there brainwashed followers, who mainly curse leading churches of the UK and USA.

Anyway all to much drama for me so I'm out.

 

[Suze]

Seems the problem is more wide spread than I thought.

The problem is you do have a church called the The Armenian Apostolic Church.


It seems that these people are mostly responsible for creating these isms, such as Calvinism Calvinistic,.and then projecting those names onto people, it looks like they appeal mostly to human emotions to justify there cause,. for promoting religious freedom away from the leading churches,.using a free will tactic to grow there church.


I have found churches that like Calvin's writings, there is not actually a church that calls themselves a Calvinist church.

You have to wonder if free will going to a person head has caused themselves to promote these curses, and then project them onto to people, as it seems over 10 leading churches in the UK and USA are viewed as Calvinist churches,.when in reality they just agree with some of Calvin's writings

I havent found a church called Jacob Arminius church or a John Calvin church yet, not one. Or a Arminius church or a Calvinist church.

But I have found Armenian churches which preach free will. But Why they would call themselves apostles I do not know.

But I can only imagine it's got something to do with them thinking of themselves to highly as more than likely free will has gone to there heads.

It's a bit sad really, as they seem to be creating idles.

When I say idles there creating man to be worshiped more than God is the impression I get, from the Armenian followers, of there free will hate speeches, of many of there brainwashed followers, who mainly curse leading churches of the UK and USA.

Anyway all to much drama for me so I'm out.

People love to put labels on things and other people so they can put them in a box and then throw them away . It makes it easier to do if u have labelled that box first

 

[Jordon]

People love to put labels on things and other people so they can put them in a box and then throw them away . It makes it easier to do if u have labelled that box first

Well the problem is at to which point do you stop promoting free speech.

So yeah, well that would be the point where you end up not saying nothing at all and you just find a polite way to say well ok,

So it's whether you buy into the hype or not or, whether you buy into the drama for some issues,
As a lot of issue are people wanting you to buy into the drama
So but it's more than that things that are important you end up becoming a democracy, where by democracy is seen as freedom of speech.

It likes i may not agree with what your saying, but I have the right to defend myself and the right to say what I'm saying.

So at the end of the day there's 7 billion tongues in the world that need taming lol.

So yeah it's all good and happy days and Nature will yake it's cause.
So it's even the case of well everyone has there own little box to put things in when they need to
But even of cause , all these things are often of human natures, but yeah Freedom of religion, the only way to look at one is God help us.

Byee byee byee.