Loving your enemies

[Jeff_56]

Im just not seeing that, and also every time he is accused of saying something he will correct and say he didnt say that and then pages down the road the same accusation comes up again and again, Jesus didnt do that.

yes,

that makes it harder here to hear what he or anyone is really living/saying.

there's a 'changeability' in the conversation/posts to 'please' people ,

not just his, but many.... i.e. when 'tested' they bend enough to try(they think) to 'pass' the test,
or worse, they attack the messenger and try to defend themselves instead of TRUTH. (human nature) (sinful)

 

[SarahM777]

Wherein can you find a post whereby I showed hate towards someone? Where did I not show mercy? I quote God’s Word and what it says. Some people take offense to God’s Word because they don't want to hear certain parts of it. God's grace and mercy does not cover ongoing rebellion in the present moment. One has to confess their sins (1 John 1:9) and forsake them (1 John 1:7).

I said you show no MERCY OR COMPASSION to one that is struggling which are things that COME OUT OF LOVE.

You don't use the same approach on one who is a BRUISED REED as you do on one that is in rebellion you will crush them. There is a HUGE difference between one that is struggling and stumbling and one that is in rebellion. You use the SAME thing on both. The problem is you CRUSH the bruised reeds. One that is struggling ALREADY KNOWS THE SIN NEEDS TO STOP.

 

[Jeff_56]

I don't see people persecuting Jason. I ignore him. The alternative is responding to his error.

If his error was allowed to go unchallenged, that would be tacit acceptance of his error.

Most of us recognize that he is sincere; but that does NOT make him less wrong.

he's got some things right, very right, and a lot of disobedient posters attack what he has that is right , over and over and over again... and don't even seem to realize what he has that is wrong - it hardly ever comes up; doesn't get that far.

so he's part right and part wrong, and they're (at least part) wrong and stay wrong in what they're wrong in, and the real issues hardly ever are corrected.

from scripture: here's a 'field test' to see who's who >> if they reject jesus, they're not saved.
second test: (totally accurate): if they 'trust' the rcc for anything, or approve of the heresy, they are not anywhere near JESUS. they don't even have to be catholic, just trusting heresy for anything is indication they don't know TRUTH yet. heresy/rcc is satan's child, and most of the world, multitudes, are deceived by it for the last 2000 years, just as GOD'S WORD says simply.
third test: this site's rules include a prohibition of rcc, or promoting the rcc, so
if they post anything promoting the heresy, they're not only breaking God's Directions, but also breaking this site's rules.
(the recognition of rcc as heresy, and prohibiting promoting heresy, is one reason this site is so much better than any other so-called 'christian' forum)

 

[Gr8grace]

Imagine what people thought when Jesus told them that they unless they hated their family they couldn't follow him....but I bet it sure got their attention. Jason got off his porch and came here and put his beliefs forward in a Jesus and God belong only to me kind of way. He's handled himself pretty well and is showing a side that is teachable. Your peanut gallery comments have no eternal value here. You need to grow up.

You have read and understand Jasons message.

His doctrines and teachings have pretty much everybody else condemned. We can't measure up to the standards that he has set in His message. In his interpretation of the scriptures and the message he teaches, If one is paying attention, He has almost everybody but himself damned.

 

[SarahM777]

I strive to attack the doctrine and not the person. Besides, the Lord said we can judge. As long as we judge righteously and not by one's outward appearance. Nowhere do I set out to attack people personally. I am merely relaying to you what God’s Word says about a certain wrong belief. For I did not write the Bible. God did. So don't shoot the messenger.

Do you believe that those who believe in OSAS are saved or condemned?

 

[atwhatcost]

Yes Jason does get grief,no doubt about it,but Jason also leaves OUT COMPASSION and MERCY,which also are fruits of love.

Hosea 6
​

For I desire mercy, not sacrifice,
and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.

Micah 6

With what shall I come before the Lord
and bow down before the exalted God?
Shall I come before him with burnt offerings,
with calves a year old?
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams,
with ten thousand rivers of olive oil?
Shall I offer my firstborn for my transgression,
the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly[SUP][a][/SUP] with your God.
​

Zechariah 7

[SUP]8 [/SUP]And the word of the Lord came again to Zechariah: [SUP]9 [/SUP]“This is what the Lord Almighty said: ‘Administer true justice; show mercy and compassion to one another.[SUP]10 [/SUP]Do not oppress the widow or the fatherless, the foreigner or the poor. Do not plot evil against each other.’

Matthew 5

7 Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.

James 2

[SUP]8 [/SUP]If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,”[SUP][a][/SUP] you are doing right. [SUP]9 [/SUP]But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,”[SUP][b][/SUP] also said, “You shall not murder.”[SUP][c][/SUP] If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, [SUP]13 [/SUP]because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.


James 3

[SUP]13 [/SUP]Who is wise and understanding among you? Let them show it by their good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness.


Jude 1

[SUP]17 [/SUP]But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. [SUP]18 [/SUP]They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” [SUP]19 [/SUP]These are the people who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, [SUP]21 [/SUP]keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Be merciful to those who doubt;[SUP]23 [/SUP]save others by snatching them from the fire; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh

Romans 1

[SUP]28 [/SUP]Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. [SUP]29 [/SUP]They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, [SUP]30 [/SUP]slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; [SUP]31[/SUP]they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Does God include showing mercy to others as a fruit of those who believe Him?

Colossians 3

Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. [SUP]4 [/SUP]When Christ, who is your[SUP][a][/SUP] life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]7 [/SUP]You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. [SUP]8 [/SUP]But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices [SUP]10 [/SUP]and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.
[SUP]12[/SUP]Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.[SUP]13 [/SUP]Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.

We are told to clothe ourselves with COMPASSION.

Proverbs 10


12Hatred stirs up conflict, but love covers over all wrongs.

1 Peter 4

Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because whoever suffers in the body is done with sin. [SUP]2 [/SUP]As a result, they do not live the rest of their earthly lives for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry. [SUP]4 [/SUP]They are surprised that you do not join them in their reckless, wild living, and they heap abuse on you. [SUP]5 [/SUP]But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit. [SUP]7 [/SUP]The end of all things is near. Therefore be alert and of sober mind so that you may pray. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Offer hospitality to one another without grumbling. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God’s grace in its various forms. [SUP]11 [/SUP]If anyone speaks, they should do so as one who speaks the very words of God. If anyone serves, they should do so with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.



Compassion,mercy and encouragement can NOT be left out and are also a part of love.

Got to disagree with you in part. Jason isn't always compassionless. He's just subtly compassionate.

I think he also tries to encourage, but most of us are confused by what he says, therefore we don't get that. That too is different than being discouraging.

 

[tribesman]

I dunno....I guess part of that could be seeing their hurts even if you don't intend to see them again and pray for them.

The main problem with mankind is sin. People are in all kind of bad seats, hurt inclusive, due to it.

 

[atwhatcost]

When did Jesus reveal his miracles to his attackers? For his enemies tempted him and said if you are the Son of God then you take yourself down from off the cross. But they did not know what they were saying. Their eyes were blinded. Covered. They could not see the evil they were doing. As I said before, I have shared with others my walk and how God worked miraculously in it. But I have done so with those of whom I trust and not those who are going to treat my experiences as if I was casting pearls before those who would just hate me all the more. You are demanding power. But first one must receive the Word in their heart in order to believe what God's Word is saying on certain matters. Faith in God's Word comes first. Believing and not seeing even when one does not see any kind of miracle.

Jesus didn't have to reveal his miracles to his attackers. Even while they were attacking, there was a guy in the crowd watching, who couldn't watch days before because he was blind. And there was a lady still holding onto her I'm-a-leper telltale cloth following him, still believing (a bit) that she was the dog who got crumbs off the master's table. You really don't have to reveal miracles in front of attackers when the miracles you've already performed are walking around in the crowd all the time.

And, he didn't do those miracles for people who already believed in him. Yeesh! Even the apostles didn't get it all until Jesus explained it in that upper room they were hiding in. They still had issues even while they went back to do the trade they knew how to do before he came along.

If this is your reasoning for hiding, it's not sound reasoning. What are you waiting for? Are you expecting us to have faith before giving any reason to have faith? And faith in what?

 

[atwhatcost]

What does mean when its just not possible to forgive or worse love someone who you hate and who is evil. Is that saying I would be condemed

You're right. It is impossible... in us. It is possible and will happen with Christ in us. Don't trust Christ, then yes, you're condemned.

But, how do you trust someone without checking them out? Try asking God to give you the ability to love someone you hate.

Does that work? Read this thread again for what JFS said about turning that hate she had for her attackers into love. She didn't do that all by her lonesome. She's not any different than any of us. She did that through Christ who strengthens her and she will continue to do that in him because she trusted him and he proved himself trustworthy to her.

You've been shown, on this very thread, several instances of people who have love for people they -- in a world kind of way -- ought to hate.

 

[atwhatcost]

I see God working in my life as precious pearls. Surely one does not cast their pearls before those who will not appreciate it. For if you are not convinced by my quoting God's Word, then surely you will not be convinced by my life experiences with God.

Whicha keeping those pearls for? Expecting to take them to heaven? Sorry, no security boxes to keep useless earth-dirt in heaven. (Let's face it, pearls are nothing but a little dirt that got into a clam's shell, so they cover it to avoid it bothering them. lol) When God gives us something, he does that so we use it, not store it away. Not like he can't come up with more to hand out.

Or, are you saying everyone on this board is a pig? If you are, then why are you playing in the pigpen?

 

[atwhatcost]

Wherein can you find a post whereby I showed hate towards someone? Where did I not show mercy? I quote God’s Word and what it says. Some people take offense to God’s Word because they don't want to hear certain parts of it. God's grace and mercy does not cover ongoing rebellion in the present moment. One has to confess their sins (1 John 1:9) and forsake them (1 John 1:7).

Well, since part of me is thinking you think were all pigs, got to say... not merciful.

Then again, I also don't know if that's what you meant to convey, so it's just something I'm thinking and could be wrong about.

 

[atwhatcost]

You don't have to be 60 or even 16 to know how evil people can be.

When I was 10, I thought the worst kind of evil was my brother trying to kill me.

When I was 21, I thought the worst kind of evil was five guys raping me.

When I was 23, I thought the worst kind of evil was when I heard the background story of someone who was kidnapped and raped for three months by a motorcycle gang, then released, only to be kidnapped and raped for another month by the same gang 18 months later.

When I was 34, I thought the worst kind of evil was an entire country invading another country just to get a seaport and, in the process of invading, intentionally raping as many women as possible to try to disturb the bloodline of that nation.

And then it got worse.

No, you can know how evil people are at a very young age. It just takes many years to conceive of the width and breadth evil can consume. I'm naturally optimistic. It's hard to be like that when I know, at this very moment, a bunch of 8-12 year old boys are in the depths of a mine looking for precious gems for fat cats to get rich on.

Evil has a breadth, a depth, and volume. It is a realer thing then anyone person can imagine. God's bigger. He suppresses it and, better yet, brings love to a world that has all kinds of experience with evil.

 

[atwhatcost]

Lynn,

You need not like them or spend time with them; but you must forgive them: for your sake---NOT FOR THEIRS.

Mt 6:14-15
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
KJV

Ah, nuts! You're right.

 

[PeterJens]

To love your enemy.

Two points stand out to me
1. People are slaves to sin and circumstance and often behave because of this
2. Seeing your own failures, and being in the persons shoes often makes what they are doing more understandable

The most common human approach to an enemy is to make them so evil they are worthy of hatred and total rejection.

The process of understanding circumstance and contrasting this with oneself makes you fully understand the failure.
Does a tree have a fault if it falls over and crushes your car?

A lot of very evil people are psychopaths, have distorted views of life, a violent history and a complete lack of healthy view of life or other people. Now this is an extreme case.

Often your enemy is someone very like yourself but on a bad day, to driven to bad behaviour etc. If you end up condemning and hating yourself, everything you do and say just condemns you. It is by embracing the whole situation, loving the victims of sin do we really begin to see what is going on.

It is not so much as we are ignoring the enemy, but separating out sin from the victims and realising we are as much a victim of the circumstances as our enemies are. In this perspective there is hope for all parties, because rather than breeding hatred we are focusing on the real issues of failure.

 

[Jeff_56]

You have read and understand Jasons message.

His doctrines and teachings have pretty much everybody else condemned. We can't measure up to the standards that he has set in His message. In his interpretation of the scriptures and the message he teaches, If one is paying attention, He has almost everybody but himself damned.

just in reference to this one post only, and not to any others,

you have just described Jesus preaching in the BIBLE. (except JESUS did not interpret scripture)

(and most people never understood or accepted JESUS or HIS MESSAGE)...

 

[Jason0047]

So we should lay down our lives for our enemies because when we were enemies of God, He laid down his life for us? Is that what you are saying?

It depends on what you mean by that. If a friend changes in your life and they decide to get mixed up into illegal drugs, should one allow that person to stay in the house and continue to break the law and be an accessory to drugs so as to reach them?

Or should one remove themselves from that situation?

The Scriptures say we are to lay down our lives for the brethren. We are also to give to the poor, too. But those who are our enemies, we can be generous in a certain way, too. If they ask you to go a mile with them, walk with them for two miles. We are to love. We are called to love everyone but within the standard of upholding that which is good or within God's laws. We certainly cannot break God's laws in order to love someone.

 

[cmarieh]

This came to mind when I read your post, Jason and I had to share with you all and I feel that it goes right along with your analogy.

Matthew 5:30
"If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.

Just because we don't want to associate ourselves with certain people because of their personal issues of breaking the law does not mean that we cannot love them because we can love them and and reach out to them because of the love Christ shows us.

 

[Danacovert82]

What does osas stand for?

 

[cmarieh]

I asked this very question a few days ago. It stands for Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS)

 

[Dan58]

What does osas stand for?

Once Saved Always Saved, which imo, is nonsense and is often used as a license to sin with immunity.

Sometimes loving your enemy requires slapping them upside the head
Just as God corrects those he loves (Proverbs 3:12, Hebrews 12:6).