Loving your enemies
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Technically, God the Father gave the disciples to Jesus. All of them Christ kept except one became lost to him (Who was the son of perdition)
(See John 17).
As for John 6:70, when Jesus said,
"Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?"
Jesus did not say I chose a devil to be his disciple. Jesus is speaking in the past tense in the first half of the sentence and then he is speaking in the present tense in the last half of the sentence.
It would be like me saying,
I bought 8 eggs to eat for breakfast two days ago but one of them is broken (because it fell on the floor today).
I add the paranthesis because without them, somebody might assume I bought 8 eggs with one of them being broken (when that is not the case).
Yes, good point. When people do not believe the teachings of Jesus and or His Word, can they be saved?
Scripture does not seem to think so.
John 12:48
"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day."
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Sirk
Guest
Thats nice. Too bad its taking one piece of scripture without taking into account the whole of it.
Nowhere does that verse nor any other one say that Jesus chose a devil to be his disciple. God is good. He is not evil. He is not going to deceive people into choosing a good representative for His Kingdom who is evil. That doesn't make any sense. The Scripture say Judas fell by transgression. Psalm 41:9 is a Messianic prophecy of Judas betraying Jesus.
Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.
Jesus considers his friends are those who obey Him (John 15:14). Judas obeyed Jesus in the beginning. But he later fell away.
In fact, the Scriptures even say that Judas betrayed Jesus. You can't betray someone unless you were once faithful to them.
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See, this is what I am talking about. Folks here are wrongfully thinking the Lord can choose evil people to represent His good Kingdom. That does not make any sense. If you are to do good towards your enemies. One is either good and they are loving everyone, or they are evil and they are doing evil things and hating others (Especially their enemies).
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psychomom
Guest
And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her seed;
He shall bruise you on the head,
And you shall bruise him on the heel. (Gen 3:15)
I am not speaking of all of you; I know whom I have chosen. But the Scripture will be fulfilled, ‘He who ate my bread has lifted his heel against me.’ (Jn 13:18)
While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which You have given Me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. (Jn 17:12)
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atwhatcost
Guest
A. Judas ate the last supper with Jesus. Jesus was the one who told him it was time to go do what he was going to do.
B. I am an ex-druggie. I didn't become a druggie until after I was saved. That Mary M. was a woman of ill-repute is a given if you read the story. Her repute was still ill, even if she stopped it, just like my druggie days are ill even after I stopped them. We're sinners, changed. Get used to it.
C. Are you the special bean? I give that Jesus is God, so, yeah, he knows how the events will play out. Rather arranges it all to his glory. But, God never tells me who is to repent and who isn't ever going to. Are you the special bean that God tells you that one?
Because the way I see it, he says love all, without taking into account if they'll love anyone back -- you or God.
Romans 5
Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we[SUP][a][/SUP] have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, [SUP]2 [/SUP]through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we[SUP][b][/SUP] boast in the hope of the glory of God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Not only so, but we[SUP][c][/SUP] also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; [SUP]4 [/SUP]perseverance, character; and character, hope. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us. [SUP]6[/SUP]You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. [SUP]8 [/SUP]But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! [SUP]10[/SUP]For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! [SUP]11 [/SUP]Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
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Sirk
Guest
i wonder if you could sum up for us in one small paragraph what it is that you are fighting for?
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atwhatcost
Guest
Here's a good idea for you. Do you have a red-letter Bible? Do a word count on the red letters. (And, I hate counting words, but I know the red-letters weren't as many as it looks. lol) What percentage of the time was Jesus quoting and what percentage of the time was him talking? Then check out who he was talking to when he did either. See the difference?
He wasn't quoting from the law to the fisherman, the prostitute, the tax collector, the centurion, or the two sisters grieving over their dead brother. To them, he gave his heart.
You treat most folks like we're the Pharisees. I suspect some of us really are. Not most. And, when you're talking to nonbelievers there's much less Phariseeism.
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atwhatcost
Guest
And, without the simple concept that we aren't Jesus, so couldn't tell a Judas from a Peter until Monday-morning quarterbacking.
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atwhatcost
Guest
So this is what I'm talking about. You have this (not so much, really, really not) wonderful habit of assuming we're of the devil and you're pure gold. Again, Jesus really did choose all twelve. ALL twelve. He just chose one for a purpose that wasn't good for that guy, but needed for God's glory.
You are not Jesus, and yet you think you are judging as perfectly as Jesus. You're not hitting a homer, you're in the football stadium. And, smash bam, whack! You hit that football long and hard without even noticing that's not what the baseball bat is for, and that was the bleachers, not the outfield wall.
We're thinking (and not so much thinking as out and out writing it for all to see) good things about Jesus. We're merely shaking our head at you for thinking you ARE Jesus.
You're a really lousy martyr.
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Sirk
Guest
Some day I have this feeling that Jason is gonna take a big drink from the water that we are trying to lead him to and he will never be the same.
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Sirk
Guest
I don't think Jason has been broken into a million pieces. It happens to everyone.....often more than once.
Hehehe I feel like a jerk but sometimes I sorta take a snarky stance to the "kill them with kindness" sort of thing. Like "they were mean to me but I'm gonna be nice to them so they feel terrible. " But for me that's probably not the right attitude. Maybe the point is that when people are mean to us and we're nice to them anyway it makes them ask, "Why are you still be being nice to me? I was mean to you!" And then tell them because Jesus said for us to love everyone, and that helps us love them.
Personally I actually don't have a lot of people be mean to me so I really don't have much experience, but if I start getting the wrong atittude I pray that God would help me have the one He wants.
Personally I actually don't have a lot of people be mean to me so I really don't have much experience, but if I start getting the wrong atittude I pray that God would help me have the one He wants.
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twamps21
Guest
I don't think He include Romans 12 to say that being nice to our enemies is to help them suffer. But more that the best way for you to deal with people that wrong you is to show them love. When someone hurts you just remember that you too are a sinner and imagine how much that hurts God, yet he still showed us love and died for us.