Man imputed Jesus with sin on the cross, not God.

[OMC]

Is 53:3-4 gives one of man alone. The following Scriptures give one of the Father and Son alone. And they are not the same at all.

The first one is of men imputing Jesus with sin and smitten of God. The following ones reveal the Father commanding the Son to submit to men, who perfectly obeys as the lamb to slaughter.

Only men falsely accused, imputed, condemned, cursed, beat, and crucified Him. Neither God the Father nor Son accused, inmputed, cursed, and laid hands on Himself.

Men worked together to false accuse, curse, and crucify the Son as by law. God and Son only worked together to commandand obediently submit to their wicked hands.

The command of the Father, was only for the Lamb of God to be willing part of the evil done unlawfully to Him, not to then be made guilty by the Father through obedience.

The good Commander and faithful Soldier puts Himself in the hands of the enemy, if necessary. If He is killed by the enemies' hands, neither the good Commander nor faithful Soldier is made guilty for it.

Neither the Father nor the Son made Himself sin and cursed with death by law. Only men did. Both the Father and the Son only made Himself to be a sin cursed with death, by submitting to sinful men abusing the law of God.

And finally, by the Son's perfect obedience to the Father's will, being a lamb made for slaughter, all men wrongly believed at the cross, that He was a sin cursed and smitten of God by law: Is 53:3-4.

What was done for evil by men, was made for good by both the Father and the Son, that they could have mercy and forgive any man that sins against God and His Christ, who repent by His resurrection from the dead...

All at the cross, the Jew first and also the Gentile, are made guilty of shedding the Son's innocent blood. Any that repents by His resurrection, the Jew first and also the Gentile, are made the righteousness of God, who sin nor more against God and His Christ.

Psa 110:1
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Rom 4:25
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

You are not reading my replies. And I mean reading them. Because if you were then you already have an answer to this.

 

[PaulThomson]

The bigger problem for your argument is that Isaiah then uses entirely different verbs:
"The LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all" (v. 6).
The verb is pāgaʿ (פגע).
It means to cause something to meet, encounter, or fall upon someone.
Isaiah is not describing what men imagined.
He is describing what YHWH did.

No. The verb in v.6 is the causative Hiphil form of פגע, so it means "to cause a secondary agent to lay/strike". Hence, " וַיהוָה הִפְגִּיעַ בּוֹ אֵת עֲוֺן כֻּלָּנוּ׃ " And-YHWH caused-someone-to-strike upon-him the-iniquity of-us-all. YHWH did not lay all our iniquities on Him, but had all our iniquities laid/struck upon Him (whose "our" is being determined by the context.)

Then: "He shall bear their iniquities" (v. 11). "He bare the sin of many" (v. 12).
The verb is nāśāʾ (נשא), "to bear, carry, lift, bear away."

Notice that Isaiah never uses nāśāʾ to mean "falsely accused."
He uses ḥāshab for mistaken human estimation and nāśāʾ for actual burden-bearing.

v.12 uses נָשָׂא ; v.11 uses סָבַל

Jer 44:22
“So the LORD could no longer bear (נָשָׂא] it, because of the evil of your doings and because of the abominations which you committed. Therefore your land is a desolation, an astonishment, a curse, and without an inhabitant, as it is this day.

Isa 1:14
Your New Moons and your appointed feasts
My soul hates;
They are a trouble to Me,
I am weary of bearing (נָשָׂא] them.

NaaSaa' here means put up with/tolerate, and is arguably the same sense as Isaiah is using it in v.12
And this sense, applied to verse 12, in no way undermines the earlier verses that say that Jesus was not imputed by God, but by men, with our sins.

v.11 uses סָבַל, which is also used here
Lam 5:7
Our fathers sinned and are no more,
But we bear ( סָבַל ) their iniquities.

Here, the sense is that they are bearing the consequences of their fathers' sins, not that they are being imputed with their fathers' sins.
And this sense, applied in verse 11, in no way undermines the earlier verses that say that Jesus was not imputed by God, but by men, with our sins.

 

[OMC]

No. The verb in v.6 is the causative Hiphil form of פגע, so it means "to cause a secondary agent to lay/strike". Hence, " וַיהוָה הִפְגִּיעַ בּוֹ אֵת עֲוֺן כֻּלָּנוּ׃ " And-YHWH caused-someone-to-strike upon-him the-iniquity of-us-all. YHWH did not lay all our iniquities on Him, but had all our iniquities laid/struck upon Him (whose "our" is being determined by the context.)

You're assuming that because הִפְגִּיעַ (hiphgiaʿ) is Hiphil, a secondary human agent must be the focus.
But the text never identifies men as the object of the action.

Isaiah says: "YHWH caused the iniquity of us all to meet upon Him."
The object is "the iniquity of us all", not "false accusations," "the Sanhedrin," or "the Romans."

More importantly, your reading still has to account for the flow of the chapter:
v.4: We esteemed Him (חשב, ḥāshab).
v.6: YHWH caused our iniquity to meet upon Him (פגע, pāgaʿ).
vv.11-12: He bore iniquities and sin (נשא, nāśāʾ).

Those are three different actions.
The chapter moves from human estimation to divine action to the Servant's bearing of sin.

So even if you stress the causative force of Hiphil, the verse still attributes the action to YHWH and the object remains our iniquity, not merely what wicked men did to Him.
That is why Isaiah 53:6 fits naturally with 53:11-12, not with the claim that the entire chapter is only about human accusation.

v.12 uses נָשָׂא ; v.11 uses סָבַל

Jer 44:22
“So the LORD could no longer bear (נָשָׂא] it, because of the evil of your doings and because of the abominations which you committed. Therefore your land is a desolation, an astonishment, a curse, and without an inhabitant, as it is this day.

Isa 1:14
Your New Moons and your appointed feasts
My soul hates;
They are a trouble to Me,
I am weary of bearing (נָשָׂא] them.

NaaSaa' here means put up with/tolerate, and is arguably the same sense as Isaiah is using it in v.12
And this sense, applied to verse 12, in no way undermines the earlier verses that say that Jesus was not imputed by God, but by men, with our sins.

v.11 uses סָבַל, which is also used here
Lam 5:7
Our fathers sinned and are no more,
But we bear ( סָבַל ) their iniquities.

Here, the sense is that they are bearing the consequences of their fathers' sins, not that they are being imputed with their fathers' sins.
And this sense, applied in verse 11, in no way undermines the earlier verses that say that Jesus was not imputed by God, but by men, with our sins.

You're right that I misspoke about verse 11 using נשא. Verse 11 uses סבל (sābal) and verse 12 uses נשא (nāśāʾ). Because I conflated verses 11 and 12 from memory instead of checking the Hebrew text carefully enough.
But that correction does not actually help your argument.

The issue is not whether nāśāʾ and sābal can sometimes mean "endure" or "put up with."
Of course they can.
The issue is how Isaiah uses them here.

Isaiah 53:11 says: "He shall bear (סבל) their iniquities."
Isaiah 53:12 says: "He bare (נשא) the sin of many."
In both verses, the object is not persecution, insults, or false accusations.
The object is iniquities and sin.

Your examples from Isaiah 1:14 and Jeremiah 44:22 involve enduring something objectionable.
But neither passage says: "bear the sin of many."
Nor do they occur in a context where the Servant is simultaneously described as an asham (guilt offering, Isa. 53:10), bearing iniquities (53:11), and bearing sin (53:12).

Likewise, Lamentations 5:7 actually hurts your argument.
The verse says: "We bear their iniquities."
That is precisely the type of construction Isaiah uses.
Whether you define it as bearing guilt, consequences, liability, or burden, the point is that the iniquities of others are being borne.
It is not merely enduring false accusations.

So even granting your lexical observations, the flow of Isaiah 53 remains unchanged:
We esteemed Him stricken (human perception).
The LORD caused our iniquity to meet upon Him (v. 6).
He bears their iniquities (v. 11).
He bears the sin of many (v. 12).
The repeated focus is still on sin and iniquity, not merely on men falsely accusing Him.
That is the point that your word studies never actually remove from the chapter.

 

[ScooterJackson]

Are we being trolled?

Only by the false teachers who are causing people to stumble by getting other to believe they can live in sin and still be saved.
And as a result we see so many Christians today living in sin.

Matthew 13:41,42 - The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Psalms 5:5 - The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity