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Sirk
Guest
He is watching it because of a deeply held insecurity or painful experience....probably from childhood.
Marriage Adultery Pornography
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He is watching it because of a deeply held insecurity or painful experience....probably from childhood.
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hannahbeth1124
Guest
That could be true. I don't know that it's always true, but it could be! Also a lust problem, possibly selfishness, or contempt in the marriage, maybe?
Regardless, I think whether Julia was "satisfying him" or not is irrelevant. That's sort of like saying if a wife doesn't perform sexually for whatever reason, the husband is justified in cheating.
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Sirk
Guest
I think all sin comes from insecurity and all insecurity comes from being wounded in some way.
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hannahbeth1124
Guest
That's a great theory! Would make an excellent thread. I'd be interested to see the biblical evidence!
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Sirk
Guest
That's a great theory! Would make an excellent thread. I'd be interested to see the biblical evidence!
How did Satan tempt eve? He told her that God was keeping something good from her.....he made her feel insecure in her relationship with God.
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hannahbeth1124
Guest
Again, very good! However maybe you should start a thread about if for deeper analysis!
That way we don't detour too far from the main highway that is the OP. 
Colorful, any updates on your thoughts regarding this? Questions?
Yes, Chip did cheat and commit adultery, and yes, this does give his wife biblical grounds for divorce. Here are a couple of clarifying thoughts to add to that:
-Sexual immorality is grounds for biblical divorce, not necessarily lust. Viewing pornography and masturbation would be categorized as sexual immorality. (Fun fact: The word for sexual immorality that Jesus uses in Matthew 19 is porneia.)
-Divorce would be permitted in this scenario, but is not required.
-The fact that there wasn't another actual person involved might make this type of infidelity easier for a wife to forgive. It's hard to imagine a woman wanting a divorce after catching her husband viewing pornography one time. This isn't to say that he wasn't wrong in doing so, but simply that it might be easier to forgive than if he had slept with another person. There would certainly still be a need for her husband to regain her trust and for them to work through the insecurities that are going to rise to the surface as a result of this, though.
No because while sexual immorality might involve lust, lust does not automatically assume sexual immorality. That is not to say that lust is not sexually immoral, but rather that when the Bible uses the word porneia, we are talking about sexual activity.
Yes, the difference is that he acted upon an impulse by viewing the pornography while the lusting was simply a series of thoughts in his head. That is not the only difference, however, as I stated above.
And this isn't to say that lusting is not sinful because it is. Whether we're talking about lust or sexual immorality, they are both sin, they are both damaging to his marriage and his relationship with God, and both need to be confessed and repented of, which is really the bottom line here. If Chip makes a habit of lusting after someone in his mind, it's only going to be a matter of time before that translates into something physical/sexually immoral because sin begets sin.
I'm curious as to why you are asking these questions, though.
Actually, I want to alter a bit of what I said up above:
While it would be very damaging to the marriage and would warrant some serious counseling, I do not believe that a person viewing pornography a few times and repenting of it is grounds for biblical divorce. If that person is unrepentant, however, that would certainly be grounds for divorce. Once that person actively and repeatedly chooses infidelity, we are in that realm of sexual immorality. (The Bible will also say that this person is to be viewed as an unbeliever if they do not repent after being repeatedly called to repentance.) This is not to say that it's okay to go and watch porn a couple times--it's absolutely not. But it also is not grounds for biblical divorce. It is grounds for some serious counseling and a reassessment of the person's heart.
While it would be very damaging to the marriage and would warrant some serious counseling, I do not believe that a person viewing pornography a few times and repenting of it is grounds for biblical divorce. If that person is unrepentant, however, that would certainly be grounds for divorce. Once that person actively and repeatedly chooses infidelity, we are in that realm of sexual immorality. (The Bible will also say that this person is to be viewed as an unbeliever if they do not repent after being repeatedly called to repentance.) This is not to say that it's okay to go and watch porn a couple times--it's absolutely not. But it also is not grounds for biblical divorce. It is grounds for some serious counseling and a reassessment of the person's heart.
Setting the scenario:
Chip Douglas is a married man who works for the cable company. He has never physically cheated on his wife, Julia Gulia Douglas, nor has he ever had personal communication with any other woman. They are both Christians and have ups and downs with their walk with the Savior Jesus Christ. During one of the downs, Julia Gulia wakes up in the middle of the night and notices her husband watching porn on their cable television (masturbation included).
Questions for this specific scenario:
1.) Did the cable guy, Chip Douglas, "cheat"/commit adultery? If yes, does this give biblical grounds for his wife to divorce her husband as he has committed adultery? If it's not, please explain why you think he didn't "cheat"/commit adultery.
2.) Matthew 5:28 "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." If Chip Douglas wasn't even watching porn, but lusted after Julia Gulia's best friend, is the adultery (committed in the heart) grounds for his wife to have a biblical divorce? If so, would it make almost 100% (if not 100%) of marriage eligible for biblical divorces? If it does not mean that, what does it mean exactly?
3.) If lusting (in the heart) is not grounds for a biblical divorce, would the ONLY difference between Chip lusting in his heart and watching pornography be that one involved manual physical activity and the other was mental? If so, to be consistent with principles and beliefs (assuming you believe lust is not grounds for a biblical divorce), then watching porn is not eligible for a biblical divorce (even if he refuses to stop watching it), correct?
Please answer any and all questions. I want people to vote, but I value written responses just as I do a quick vote. Thank you.
i do not understand why this question is even asked. If the Word of God teaches
Matthew 5:28 "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."
Then i assure you, that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery, EXACTLY like the Holy Word of God says and teaches.
Now i am sure because we are living in the last days, that this generation who does not believe that verse to be True, will interpret it to mean something other than what it says. This generation will give all kinds of reasons so that looking at porn WILL NOT be considered adultery. But no matter there reasoning or excusing, they can't change the Truth of what the Word of God plainly says and teaches, no matter how hard they try to convince themselves otherwise.
^i^
I think we maybe missing the point of Matt 5.
Jesus said that who so ever looks on a women to lust IN HIS Heart. was this an addition to the Law in Deuteronomy? NO! Jesus said if you do this Pluck out your eye better to do that and lose one member then your whole member cast into fire . The point here is DO NOT LET LUST Destroy your relationship with God. OR that Lust will Destroy you. SO Jesus is tell them to deal with the issue of your heart because the Issue will deal with you. Being temped is not a sin. Being drawn away by the Lust of it is which starts in the Heart before the act even happened. NOw the temptation will suggest to you to Look and do or think but we are not to be a willful Participant. WE are to resist as Jesus did who to was tempted YET WITHOUT SIN
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lisalove
Guest
This is not "One Time Behavior." NO. It is persistent and UNREPENTANT BEHAVIOR. (An "Iniquity" if you will). My ex (mr "pastor" tried to blame me (Liar). For HIS Pornography
ADDICTION. HE BECAME MURDEROUS MINDED when I challenged his SINS. He tried to turn me in to a sick BDSM "MISTRESS." TO PUNISH HIM FOR HIS SIN. BLECH! TWISTED AND PERVERTED HE IS SUNKEN IN SIN. He was caught and tried for years to say "my sons" were the culprits. BLECH. I GOT A VRRY NECESSARY DIVORCE. The bible says the Wicked ARE Holden with the CORDS OF THEIR INIQUITY.UN
ADDICTION. HE BECAME MURDEROUS MINDED when I challenged his SINS. He tried to turn me in to a sick BDSM "MISTRESS." TO PUNISH HIM FOR HIS SIN. BLECH! TWISTED AND PERVERTED HE IS SUNKEN IN SIN. He was caught and tried for years to say "my sons" were the culprits. BLECH. I GOT A VRRY NECESSARY DIVORCE. The bible says the Wicked ARE Holden with the CORDS OF THEIR INIQUITY.UN
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torus
Guest
Setting the scenario:
Chip Douglas is a married man who works for the cable company. He has never physically cheated on his wife, Julia Gulia Douglas, nor has he ever had personal communication with any other woman. They are both Christians and have ups and downs with their walk with the Savior Jesus Christ. During one of the downs, Julia Gulia wakes up in the middle of the night and notices her husband watching porn on their cable television (masturbation included).
Questions for this specific scenario:
1.) Did the cable guy, Chip Douglas, "cheat"/commit adultery? If yes, does this give biblical grounds for his wife to divorce her husband as he has committed adultery? If it's not, please explain why you think he didn't "cheat"/commit adultery.
2.) Matthew 5:28 "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." If Chip Douglas wasn't even watching porn, but lusted after Julia Gulia's best friend, is the adultery (committed in the heart) grounds for his wife to have a biblical divorce? If so, would it make almost 100% (if not 100%) of marriage eligible for biblical divorces? If it does not mean that, what does it mean exactly?
3.) If lusting (in the heart) is not grounds for a biblical divorce, would the ONLY difference between Chip lusting in his heart and watching pornography be that one involved manual physical activity and the other was mental? If so, to be consistent with principles and beliefs (assuming you believe lust is not grounds for a biblical divorce), then watching porn is not eligible for a biblical divorce (even if he refuses to stop watching it), correct?
Please answer any and all questions. I want people to vote, but I value written responses just as I do a quick vote. Thank you.
By that verse, you go to the beach and find someone very attractive. You imagined what they looked like without clothing. You just cheated? Also you have a vivid sex dream, you cheated? People on here are going to say, I have never ever done that which would be a lie.
Let's not forget the words of Jesus: Moses allowed you to give a certificate of divorce because your hearts were hard but it was not like this from the brginning, what God has joined together let man not separate. Reconciliation always holds prescedence over legality. And those who talk of "legally allowed to"should realize that their appeal is to the law. However we are under grace. And the law which we abide in is the law of love, which definitely includes forgiveness , forbearance, patience, ect.
And if you want to be technical ... Yes indeed seeing an attractive woman or man at the beach and lusting in your heart IS adultery and grounds for divorce. But if you exercise that right, whether to this extreme or another extreme , just be aware by which measure you exercise the law in severity or mercy, so too God shall exercise that same forgiveness. "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us" let's hope God doesn't divorce us he has every right to! But we live by his grace the same grace we should extend
he has every right to! But we live by his grace the same grace we should extendIs it 'cheating'? What does that mean, anyway? Cheating is when you peak at someone else's cards during a card game. The command is 'Thou shalt not commit adultery.'
Did Chip commit adultery? There is not enough information in this scenario to tell. He might have just gone to the porn sight out of professional curiousity, since Chip also works as a psychological researcher on the issue of porn addiction, and he happened to catch some kind of fungal rash down below. (If you can make up hypotheticals, so can I.) Generally, if a man is looking at naked women in porn, the purpose is to lust.
So if a man looks at a woman to lust after her, does his wife have grounds for divorce. First of all, I'd like to point out that the divorce rights passages give men rights to divorce women. The only woman divorce rights passages in the Old Testament would still require a writ of divorce form the men. Matthew 19 doesn't say anything about women divorcing their husbands. Mark (or is that Luke) only forbids women from divorcing their husbands and doesn't permit it. From what I have read, the only known case of a Jewish woman divorcing her husband was Philip's wife who divorced him with the approval of chief priests and married Herod. That's the version I read. But John the Baptist confirmed that that marriage, which was also incestuous and against Levitical law, for that reason, was not lawful.
But be that as it may, a sin in the heart is a sin against the Lord. Man looks at the outward appearance, but God looks on the heart. Husband and wife are one in body, one flesh. If sins of the heart of to be punished by other people, can we execute someone who hates his brother in his heart? Can we at least give him life in prison? He who hates his brother is a murderer according to I John. So are we justified in people who hate other people but don't act on it?
If looking at porn is grounds for divorce, then shouldn't looking at the girls at the beach in bikinis with an intention to lust, or looking at a waitress or waiter with an intention to lust be grounds for divorce?
I actually agree with Angela on this one. Let's talk about how we can save marriages rather than end them. Looking with an intention to lust is a sin, and we will all stand before God. But let us not find excuses to divorce.
There is something that seems rather unmerciful about saying a spouse can divorce over lust in the heart. Of course, how can you verify what is in someone else's heart? But beyond that, what about the children? It is bad for the kids to be split from either parent, and should only happen in extreme or necessary cases. Broken homes are bad for children statistically, too. So Suzie gets married and has a baby. Her first husband looks at the waitress the wrong way, so she divorces him and marries the second one. He looks at porn, and she catches him, so he's out the door with her kid by him. Then she marries husband number 3 who oggles a girl at the beach. So he's out of the picture. Then she marries husband number 4, but she makes a crack about the pool boy having a nice behind to one of her girlfriends, so she's out the door and he's on to his 8th wife.
Did Chip commit adultery? There is not enough information in this scenario to tell. He might have just gone to the porn sight out of professional curiousity, since Chip also works as a psychological researcher on the issue of porn addiction, and he happened to catch some kind of fungal rash down below. (If you can make up hypotheticals, so can I.) Generally, if a man is looking at naked women in porn, the purpose is to lust.
So if a man looks at a woman to lust after her, does his wife have grounds for divorce. First of all, I'd like to point out that the divorce rights passages give men rights to divorce women. The only woman divorce rights passages in the Old Testament would still require a writ of divorce form the men. Matthew 19 doesn't say anything about women divorcing their husbands. Mark (or is that Luke) only forbids women from divorcing their husbands and doesn't permit it. From what I have read, the only known case of a Jewish woman divorcing her husband was Philip's wife who divorced him with the approval of chief priests and married Herod. That's the version I read. But John the Baptist confirmed that that marriage, which was also incestuous and against Levitical law, for that reason, was not lawful.
But be that as it may, a sin in the heart is a sin against the Lord. Man looks at the outward appearance, but God looks on the heart. Husband and wife are one in body, one flesh. If sins of the heart of to be punished by other people, can we execute someone who hates his brother in his heart? Can we at least give him life in prison? He who hates his brother is a murderer according to I John. So are we justified in people who hate other people but don't act on it?
If looking at porn is grounds for divorce, then shouldn't looking at the girls at the beach in bikinis with an intention to lust, or looking at a waitress or waiter with an intention to lust be grounds for divorce?
I actually agree with Angela on this one. Let's talk about how we can save marriages rather than end them. Looking with an intention to lust is a sin, and we will all stand before God. But let us not find excuses to divorce.
There is something that seems rather unmerciful about saying a spouse can divorce over lust in the heart. Of course, how can you verify what is in someone else's heart? But beyond that, what about the children? It is bad for the kids to be split from either parent, and should only happen in extreme or necessary cases. Broken homes are bad for children statistically, too. So Suzie gets married and has a baby. Her first husband looks at the waitress the wrong way, so she divorces him and marries the second one. He looks at porn, and she catches him, so he's out the door with her kid by him. Then she marries husband number 3 who oggles a girl at the beach. So he's out of the picture. Then she marries husband number 4, but she makes a crack about the pool boy having a nice behind to one of her girlfriends, so she's out the door and he's on to his 8th wife.
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Setting the scenario:
Chip Douglas is a married man who works for the cable company. He has never physically cheated on his wife, Julia Gulia Douglas, nor has he ever had personal communication with any other woman. They are both Christians and have ups and downs with their walk with the Savior Jesus Christ. During one of the downs, Julia Gulia wakes up in the middle of the night and notices her husband watching porn on their cable television (masturbation included).
Questions for this specific scenario:
1.) Did the cable guy, Chip Douglas, "cheat"/commit adultery? If yes, does this give biblical grounds for his wife to divorce her husband as he has committed adultery? If it's not, please explain why you think he didn't "cheat"/commit adultery.
2.) Matthew 5:28 "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." If Chip Douglas wasn't even watching porn, but lusted after Julia Gulia's best friend, is the adultery (committed in the heart) grounds for his wife to have a biblical divorce? If so, would it make almost 100% (if not 100%) of marriage eligible for biblical divorces? If it does not mean that, what does it mean exactly?
3.) If lusting (in the heart) is not grounds for a biblical divorce, would the ONLY difference between Chip lusting in his heart and watching pornography be that one involved manual physical activity and the other was mental? If so, to be consistent with principles and beliefs (assuming you believe lust is not grounds for a biblical divorce), then watching porn is not eligible for a biblical divorce (even if he refuses to stop watching it), correct?
Please answer any and all questions. I want people to vote, but I value written responses just as I do a quick vote. Thank you.
GOD forgives but the wife has the choice whether or not to forgive and/or restore or divorce Chip Douglas