Master of Divinity Student

[Blain]

I'm a newbie here. A deep well of belief. I never had the 'sinner's prayer' experience of ASKING God to come into my heart. He just came ... when I wasn't seeking. I'm forever changed. Forever loved. I'm reading these comments ... because THIS is what I've been seeking, a place to hear, share, read ... faith-based conversations ... and I'm reminded of this scripture found in Acts 26:24

"And as he thus spake for himself, Festus said with a loud voice, Paul, thou art beside thyself; much learning doth make thee mad."

Not questioning any of you kindred in Christ's comments. Cross my heart. Just seeing how sometimes we dig so deeply into understanding a verse/chapter/book ... we confuse ourselves. A little bit of God's Word goes a long way.

Paul's account, his conversion experience ... we don't all have those BLINDING moments when the truth is 'implanted' within us but we do become 'receivers' of the Spirit after our new births.

In Christ, I am,

Dizdi

Hello and welcome to the forum, I think sometimes we tend to overcomplicate things and in doing so only make things more difficult to understand. I remember how Jesus said we are to be as little children children are not especially learned and they do not tend to complicate things they take things as they are simple and pure

 

[GWH]

This is more comment than question.

Your intro reminded me of a church experience I once had. After listening to a preacher speak at length criticizing our Catholic brothers and sisters for their use of priests as intermediaries, he was asked a theological question. He answered, "I studied this is seminary," and he then provided an answer. He didn't have a clue.

There is surely a place for academic study of Christianity but when viewed through a microscope we run the risk missing it all. It's actually so simple even I can understand. That's my message.

Yes, RC has had a plethora of problematic doctrines ever since it became established by the Roman government after Constantine.
At least they cancelled the Inquisition during Vatican II in the 1960s.

 

[GWH]

Some here deny this. Buckle up!

Welcome!

Nice! (Although I guess I would prefer to be described as loving rather than as lovely :^)

 

[Inquisitor]

Hello, everyone,

I have announced before that I am a master of divinity student enrolled in University. I will be obtaining my doctorate after this in theology. I have found it engaging and fun to do studies outside of schools, primarily to answer questions. A few things you should know that may provoke questions: I am a spirit-filled believer in the context of Charismatic denomination meaning I do believe in speaking in tongues. I am a continuationist and believe all the gifts are for today! I also believe a Christian can lose their salvation if they do not walk or live the life we are supposed to live in Christ.

All that to possibly start the thread. But I want anyone to ask me anything, and I will do my best to respond with a supported response. It will be a bit slower, because I am not trying to simply debate but explain why I believe what I BELIEVE with supported conclusions that may provoke you to think or look into an idea or subject, even if you disagree. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ! So, please, ask away! I will answer anything!

Why did the traditional church after two or three centuries lose the power of the Holy Spirit, Cessationism?

 

[Inquisitor]

Yes, RC has had a plethora of problematic doctrines ever since it became established by the Roman government after Constantine.
At least they cancelled the Inquisition during Vatican II in the 1960s.

That was there biggest mistake for obvious reasons.

 

[Seeker47]

Yes, RC has had a plethora of problematic doctrines ever since it became established by the Roman government after Constantine.
At least they cancelled the Inquisition during Vatican II in the 1960s.

Yes, RC has had a plethora of problematic doctrines ever since it became established by the Roman government after Constantine.
At least they cancelled the Inquisition during Vatican II in the 1960s.

In his criticism he missed the log in his own eye.

 

[Seeker47]

In his criticism he missed the log in his own eye.

I am not defending the inquisition. I do note, once the Church launched this processed aimed at removing Judaizers, the civil authorities used the process for political control, especially in France and Spain. The RCC actually spoke out against these civil authorities and attempted to mitigate the damage. That part of history is lesser known.

 

[posthuman]

I believe that the context of Spiritual gifts were the reason for Pauls address..

are you saying that when you speak in tongues it's not in the context of exercising a spiritual gift?

 

[Taylorj2]

As others have already stated, there are special things and unique events going on in Acts that included tongues. And some of such things were taking place throughout the full transition from OC to NC. It doesn't say in Acts10 the glōssais were not interpreted. It says they were hearing them exalting God.

FWIW, some of us have been approaching God's Word with an open heart for decades. Consider your implication that if others don't agree with your interpretations, it may not be them who need the open hearts.

I disagree, if interpreted correctly, it is they spoke in tongues AND magnified God meaning they did both. Again, you can't superimpose a presupposition of a belief on a text. It never says that there were people around that interpreted it, and if it were important that what was being said was interpreted - they would have stated it very clearly in the text.

 

[Taylorj2]

You may be opening a theological can of worms here. Maybe rather than seeking questions to practice from, you could simply provide Scriptural proof for such statements or provide a lot more detail for your charismatics assertions.. And be prepared for an abundance of rabbit trailed discussions and side arguments if this thread takes off for whatever reason(s). 2 pages in so far in my reading and it's already happening. You're going to have to be very selective as to what you respond to if you want any productive interactions. The can of worms may explode open if you get into something (like Faith here) that becomes attractive to Calvinistic apologetics.

Ephesians 2:8.

 

[Taylorj2]

You say you want anyone to ask you anything, so I will ask you an easy question.
Daniel 12 speaks of 1260 days, 1290 days, and 1335 days.
What is he talking about?

The 1,260 is debated - though there is a great work by Francisco Ribera in 1590 that believes the period of the antichrist will last for a literal 3 1/2 years or 1,260 days.
1,290 is the abomination of desolation or the time when the sacrifices stop. This is referring to the middle of tribulation and it is the same as Daniel 9:27.
I believe the 1,335 days is representative of the literal, physical and visible second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ (Rev. 19:11-21)

 

[Taylorj2]

I am curious as to what your basis is for one losing their salvation

I do not believe it is difficult to lose salvation, but I do believe that one can lose their salvation. Hebrews 6 makes this pretty clear.

 

[Taylorj2]

This is more comment than question.

Your intro reminded me of a church experience I once had. After listening to a preacher speak at length criticizing our Catholic brothers and sisters for their use of priests as intermediaries, he was asked a theological question. He answered, "I studied this is seminary," and he then provided an answer. He didn't have a clue.

There is surely a place for academic study of Christianity but when viewed through a microscope we run the risk missing it all. It's actually so simple even I can understand. That's my message.

I think there is a simplicity to the Gospel. Yet, I believe that many Christians look at people who are studied and have given years of their life being led in the direction of academia in a wrong light. Though, again, I must say that everyone who is trained must be humble - much like Martin Luther at the beginning of his life. Knowledge will puff up! It is important to remain rooted and in a servant mentality. I am going to school because I desire to study and know more of God's word, because I believe He spoke to me and led me in this direction, and ultimately, It will help me serve those in need of truth. I love the scriptures and I believe that I am to study like the Jewish people of Berea!

 

[Taylorj2]

Why did the traditional church after two or three centuries lose the power of the Holy Spirit, Cessationism?

I don't believe that they did. This is one of the topics I am most interested in researching, but I do believe that they continued. I believe the Gifts will cease when Christ returns (1 Cor. 13).

 

[Ouch]

Jesus also said Matt. 4:4 and John 16:12-13, and Christians believe Jesus converted Paul (Acts 9:1-15) and inspired him to teach
the Gospel and moral instructions in his epistles, so they are careful to be sure any voice they hear does not contradict NT Scripture.

Very good point.

This is NT right?

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

 

[Ouch]

Hello, everyone,

I have announced before that I am a master of divinity student enrolled in University. I will be obtaining my doctorate after this in theology. I have found it engaging and fun to do studies outside of schools, primarily to answer questions. A few things you should know that may provoke questions: I am a spirit-filled believer in the context of Charismatic denomination meaning I do believe in speaking in tongues. I am a continuationist and believe all the gifts are for today! I also believe a Christian can lose their salvation if they do not walk or live the life we are supposed to live in Christ.

All that to possibly start the thread. But I want anyone to ask me anything, and I will do my best to respond with a supported response. It will be a bit slower, because I am not trying to simply debate but explain why I believe what I BELIEVE with supported conclusions that may provoke you to think or look into an idea or subject, even if you disagree. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ! So, please, ask away! I will answer anything!

Love it, when the Holy Ghost came in me it changed my life.

I was baptized in JESUS name and months later received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

No better person to learn from than the one who created us and everything in existence, since he know our every move he can lead us and protect us IF we have our ears open to listen to that small still voice.

And the only way to do that is have him inside of you as you do.

GOD BLESS you in your walk.

 

[GWH]

I think there is a simplicity to the Gospel. Yet, I believe that many Christians look at people who are studied and have given years of their life being led in the direction of academia in a wrong light. Though, again, I must say that everyone who is trained must be humble - much like Martin Luther at the beginning of his life. Knowledge will puff up! It is important to remain rooted and in a servant mentality. I am going to school because I desire to study and know more of God's word, because I believe He spoke to me and led me in this direction, and ultimately, It will help me serve those in need of truth. I love the scriptures and I believe that I am to study like the Jewish people of Berea!

I had the same motivation for attending seminary, and I especially loved the courses in systematic theology,
which means gathering every Scripture relevant for a topic and harmonizing as many as possible.

 

[shittim]

Knowing about Him is great, His Own have a hunger for the things of God, yet it is His goal for us that we know Him personally.
He taught there will be those who did miracles in His name yet except for that He knew them not.
blessings

 

[studier]

I disagree, if interpreted correctly, it is they spoke in tongues AND magnified God meaning they did both. Again, you can't superimpose a presupposition of a belief on a text. It never says that there were people around that interpreted it, and if it were important that what was being said was interpreted - they would have stated it very clearly in the text.

So, basically, you're an apologist for charismatics come to assert your interpretations for practice and tell others they don't know how to interpret correctly. Just what Christianity needs, more Christians that assert their interpretation by fallacious argumentation (e.g. you aren't interpreting correctly)

A few observations:

• YLT Acts 2:10 Phrygia also, and Pamphylia, Egypt, and the parts of Libya, that are along Cyrene, and the strangers of Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretes and Arabians, we did hear them speaking in our tongues the great things of God.'
  • Speaking the great things of/about God in different tongues/languages
• YLT Acts 10:46 for they were hearing them speaking with tongues and magnifying God.
  • "and" is not a single meaning word. It has different functions in Greek and in English.
  • "and" in its subordinating function could make the tongues separate from the magnification of God
    • This is what you're doing in telling us the tongues were not interpreted.
    • I assume you're not telling us the magnification of God was not understood.
    • So, you seem to be telling us they spoke in unintelligible languages THEN they spoke magnifying God in intelligible language. So, you're telling us that "and" means "then".
    • This sounds like apologetics for alternating gibberish and intelligible content.
  • "and" in its coordinating sense simply tells us the content of the tongues was the magnification of God.
    • This fits with Acts2.
    • The grammatical structure in the Greek with kai-and connecting two Greek participles of the same parsing - so "speaking" connects to "magnifying" - magnifying God was the content of the speaking - they were speaking magnifying God.
    • Then the noun "tongues/language" tells us how - in what manner - they were speaking
      • They were speaking in tongues-magnifying God.
      • They were speaking and magnifying God in tongues,
  • There's also an ascensive use of "kai-and" in NC Greek which would say:
    • They were speaking in tongues, namely they were magnifying God, which in one sense would basically intensify what we're being told about the content of their speaking.

There is more to add, but basically, I'd ask you to refrain from inferring that those who disagree with you don't know how to interpret Scripture, which is simple and classic fallacious argumentation.

 

[shittim]

Best we ALL take ALL things to Him for His wisdom and guidance, and lean not on your own understanding.
This is how "cemetatrians" get mixed up.
"Ecclesia" is the church, the body of believers, not a man made organiazation with the leader running around in a fish hat.